Dahn Ranks and Societal Positions

[FiveLate]

I recently came across this on Reddit and had not seen this detailed info here.  Brandon chimed in, so I thought I would bring it here to discuss.  Shagomir wrote on Aug 6, 2017:

Quote

 

Dahn is how the nobles and officers are ranked, though for lower-dahn lighteyes it's as much about wealth as it is about military rank. 

Here's the best I can do at what each of the dahns includes, without spoilers. Stuff in italics is unconfirmed but is reasonable to guess based on the information we have from the books and Brandon.

1st Dahn: The King and the King's direct heir.
2nd Dahn: Highprinces, their direct heirs, and the King's direct heir.
3rd Dahn: Generals?, Highlords, and the non-inheriting children of 1st and 2nd dahn lighteyes.
4th Dahn: Battalionlords, Citylords, Shardbearers, and other mid-ranked nobles.
5th Dahn: Companylords?, along with lower-ranked nobles.
6th Dahn: Captainlords, along with the lowest-ranked nobles and landholders?
7th Dahn: Lower-ranking landless officers, along with higher-ranking (or very wealthy) landless lighteyes?
8th Dahn: Soldiers, along with high-ranking (or moderately wealthy) landless lighteyes?
9th Dahn: Landless lighteyes with some wealth, like merchants and master craftsmen.
10th Dahn: "Tenners", essentially any lighteyes who has to work for a living.

Children typically have the dahn of their highest-ranking parent, unless that parent is 1st or 2nd dahn. There is some difficulty with one lighteyed noble we meet, as she is 5th dahn, but her father is 4th dahn. This isn't explained in the books so far.

We have met characters of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 8th, and 10th dahns and have gotten confirmation that landless lighteyes can acheive the 7th dahn as low-ranked officers. We also know that most lighteyes are 9th or 10th dahn, and that the 9th dahn is generally made up of craftspeople and merchants. 

I am unsure of the difference between a Captainlord and a Captain, as they both lead the same number of men. I assume the difference is that a Captainlord is a noble or landholder, and a Captain is not, so they would have a lower dahn than a Captainlord. 

It isn't specified where the rank cutoff is for low-ranked officers, though it likely means captains, squadleaders, and sergeants - anyone without lord in their title. This muddies the ranks a little, but makes everything work well given what we know of the 9th and 10th dahns. 

As far as nahn goes, we don't know nearly as much. We meet a 2nd nahn darkeyes that is highly educated, as well as a 2nd nahn darkeyed squadleader. We also meet a 6th nahn darkeyed sergeant, meaning that normal darkeyed soldiers should be between the 7th and 9th nahns. We also meet a darkeyed soldier who is likely to be 1st nahn given his specific rank, but this is never explicitly stated in the text. 

I should just ping <a href="/u/mistborn">/u/mistborn</a> to see if this is correct or not - this doesn't seem to be the kind of info that is full of spoilers, it's just cool background worldbuilding. 

*Edit: Corrected the first dahn. 

 

Brandon's replies. Mistborn replied on August 7, 2017:

Quote

I'm very impressed by this list.  You did a great job.   Note that only the king is first Dahn under the Alethi system, however.  His heir is second, until crowned.  Sixth Dahn, as you've identified, is the landed cutoff--if you have land, even a little, you're at least Sixth Dahn.  

If you were of a specific dahn (say, seventh) but were elevated by something unusual (say, you got appointed to an appointment that would raise you above this) your children will often be elevated to a rank just beneath you.  So, for instance, if a tenner got a shard, he'd immediately be elevated to fourth, and his family would likely be elevated to fifth.  

The only thing I'd offer a warning on is that sometimes, people shortcut Captainlord to just Captain which drives Peter crazy, and so it can be hard to pick out rank from title.

 

Quote

Note that getting a Shardblade isn't the only reason someone could be elevated, and isn't the only reason why children might not be the same dahn as their parent.  Most of it has to do with titles, and who inherits, and that sort of thing.  The answer is probably more boring than you're hoping. 

Additional comments by Brandon. Mistborn on August 11, 2017.

Quote

Kings existed in other places, and had existed in Alethkar before.  (Dahn is a Vorin cultural ideal, not just Alethi.)  So the system is not new, but for many years, the Alethi refused to accept a king.  (Following the division of the kingdom among the Sunmaker's sons.)

Quote

Traditionally, the monarchs of city-states (like Kharbranth, Bavland, and at some points Silnasen) do not claim the first dahn.  There have been leaders of New Natanan who have, same with Herdaz.  Depends on how much they want to aggravate the Alethi.

Unification era, there'd be two people of the first dahn: The queen of Thaylenah and the king of Jah Keved.  Non-vorin monarchs in the west would be treated like first dahn, sometimes, depending on the situation.  
 

Quote

I'm not sure if I've mentioned it or not, honestly.  Queen Fen.  You'll get to meet her soon.  Note that Thaylenah is kind of a plutocracy, with merchant councils holding a lot of power, which changes its dynamic a little when compared to Alethi or Jah Keved.  

Quote

Highprince is a tricky one, as the definition of "highprince" is a person who can convince others to call him by the title.  I guess that's the same for all of them, but as highprinces tend to be near the top of the pecking order, it's more about military than anything else.  

Gavilar was 4th dahn before becoming highprince, for example.  His branch of the Kholin family wasn't considered a prime contender for the highprince throne--until he took it for himself.

Enasor then asked on August 11, 2017:

Quote

His branch of the Kholin family? Does this imply there are other branches of the Kholin family? Meaning, there are other Kholins elsewhere?

Brandon replied on August 11, 2017:

Quote

Well, not as many as there once were...

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by FiveLate
Edited to fix formatting.

[Nathrangking]

finally some light is shed on the enigmatic system of societal ranking.

[+Slowswift]

I had to copy/paste into a blank document and open as an HTML file to read it properly (which was perhaps unnecessary, but the tags were bugging me).

Thanks for bringing this over here! It's something I'd been rather interested in. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Slowswift

[FiveLate]

15 minutes ago, Slowswift said:

I had to copy/paste into a blank document and open as an HTML file to read it properly (which was perhaps unnecessary, but the tags were bugging me).

Thanks for bringing this over here! It's something I'd been rather interested in. 

Yah, I went through and manually removed them all.  It must be something with the copy option from the Reddit app conflicting with the paste option here while using my kindle.

I also could not find a link in the Reddit app to post with it, but I am very new to Reddit.

There must be an easier way to do it lol.

 

Edited August 14, 2017 by FiveLate
Continuation.

[maxal]

I love how we found out the followings:

1) There are more than one branch of the Kholin family.

2) Gavilar wasn't supposed to be the next Highprince, he warred to get the title.

3) Brandon answer allows me to think he probably decimated the other more important branches of the family.

4) There are other Kholin probably living in seclusion, somewhere.

[17th Splinter]

Thanks! Do you know if anyone has something similar with nahn?

[FiveLate]

Just now, 17th Splinter said:

Thanks! Do you know if anyone has something similar with nahn?

There is a pretty good description, but not as nearly detailed on Coppermind Here.