Citadel16 he/him Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 funny story. so the other day my friend and I were discussing cosmere theory like the good nerds we are, when he tells me that it has been confirmed that the soul is made up of investiture. I give a nod, thinking the information might be useful. then like a strike of lightning from a highstorm, I look him in the eye. "wait a second" (I'm paraphrasing) "if it is made up of investiture then would it be possible to store it in a nicrosil* metal minds?" he blinks. "now that would be interesting. I'll have to ask the big man himself." "but wait," I say " if that is true then, if by that logic, could one, say the lord ruler still be alive in a metal mind? and if he was could someone gain his power by tapping into it and taking control of his spirit web?" even better. I was looking it up in the ars Arcanum and found that a nicrosil ferring was called a soulbearer Combine your brains, I want to hear all your theories! and please tell me if this is not true(if you know for certain) *nicrosil stores investiture. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Bands of Mourning spoilers: The bands of mourning will give you the abilities of The Lord Ruler... (According to the legend) Holy highstorms you are onto something! Edited December 9, 2015 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel16 he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Bands of Mourning spoilers: I know right? I'm TOTALLY GEEKING OUT ABOUT IT!!! Edited December 9, 2015 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquirrel59 he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Holy crap! I never considered that. I really like this theory. At least as far as the abstract of storing a soul in a Nicrosil mind. However I do have to poke the hole that the Lord Ruler could not have stored his soul in the Bands, because the Bands of Mourning (his bracers) were Atium minds, not Nicrosil minds. Nicrosil is one of the metals that is not even in dispute as to whether it could have existed in secret during the final empire. It is made of 84.1% nickel, 14.4% chromium, 1.4% silicon, and 0.1% magnesium. Chromium requires incredibly high temperatures to refine in the first place, far hotter than forges were capable of reaching with medieval technology. And that isn't even mentioning the silicon component or the act of alloying it all together in such precise ratios. The creation of Nicrosil is physically impossible in a world limited to medieval technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 The creation of Nicrosil is physically impossible in a world limited to medieval technology. Nothing says TLR could not have created some with the power of the Well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel16 he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Holy crap! I never considered that. I really like this theory. At least as far as the abstract of storing a soul in a Nicrosil mind. However I do have to poke the hole that the Lord Ruler could not have stored his soul in the Bands, because the Bands of Mourning (his bracers) were Atium minds, not Nicrosil minds. Nicrosil is one of the metals that is not even in dispute as to whether it could have existed in secret during the final empire. It is made of 84.1% nickel, 14.4% chromium, 1.4% silicon, and 0.1% magnesium. Chromium requires incredibly high temperatures to refine in the first place, far hotter than forges were capable of reaching with medieval technology. And that isn't even mentioning the silicon component or the act of alloying it all together in such precise ratios. The creation of Nicrosil is physically impossible in a world limited to medieval technology. unless there is magic. ;: ) also who's to say the bracers were 100% atium? it is possibly that they were only containers for the atium. (and it was confirmed that they actually have actually very little atium when elend sold them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 @OP A very interesting thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 So Rashek is Voldemort? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 However I do have to poke the hole that the Lord Ruler could not have stored his soul in the Bands, because the Bands of Mourning (his bracers) were Atium minds, not Nicrosil minds... The Bands of Mourning weren't just metalminds, they were Hemalurgic spikes as well. Though I agree that it's unlikely his soul is stored in there. It comes down to whether nicro-minds can store either kinetic investiture or innate investiture, or both. I'm of the opinion that it's only kinetic investiture, but if it is possible to store innate investiture it likely won't amount to the level of storing one's entire soul. Might be too much overlap with Aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Holy crap! I never considered that. I really like this theory. At least as far as the abstract of storing a soul in a Nicrosil mind. However I do have to poke the hole that the Lord Ruler could not have stored his soul in the Bands, because the Bands of Mourning (his bracers) were Atium minds, not Nicrosil minds. Nicrosil is one of the metals that is not even in dispute as to whether it could have existed in secret during the final empire. It is made of 84.1% nickel, 14.4% chromium, 1.4% silicon, and 0.1% magnesium. Chromium requires incredibly high temperatures to refine in the first place, far hotter than forges were capable of reaching with medieval technology. And that isn't even mentioning the silicon component or the act of alloying it all together in such precise ratios. The creation of Nicrosil is physically impossible in a world limited to medieval technology. Are you sure? Can't coal get to 3,500 at a perfect burn? Pretty sure chromium melts at 3,400 and some change. It would be very hard. Take a ton of trial and error with no good way of measuring things, but it might be possible to produce a very small amount. edit* temps in degree's F. Edited November 12, 2015 by Charononus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Are you sure? Can't coal get to 3,500 at a perfect burn? Pretty sure chromium melts at 3,400 and some change. It would be very hard. Take a ton of trial and error with no good way of measuring things, but it might be possible to produce a very small amount. edit* temps in degree's F. Also, TLR can compound Brass, he can just be a furnace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_93 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 I think gaining TLR's powers (not all of them tough) should/will happen if you get his braces as hemalurgic spikes. They wouldn't have to be Nicrosil to gain his powers, as they always were hemalurgic spikes. So, as hemalurgy ripes your "soul" (i know, your spiritweb) apart and adds something else to it, a part of TLR soul/spiritweb might be contained in there. So, when you pierce yourself with them, you'll gain the power through, and should have access to the storage. I think this was discussed before, that when you kill a Ferochemist and take a power of him by Hemalurgy, you'll have access to his metalminds. I'm just not sure about one point: Were the Lord Rulers braces actually hemalurgic spikes? Or did he just have them pierced through his skin so not every Mistborn can pull on them as they're to important (didn't actually work out then) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 WoB DALENTHAS (15 OCTOBER 2008)Did the Lord Ruler have any Hemalurgic spikes in him? It would seem he'd need to for Ruin to influence him, but it wasn't mentioned. Or did his bracers work as spikes? BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008)His arm bracers, which pierced his skin, were his spikes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_93 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Thanks EagleOfTheForstPath, i thought i saw that somewhere before... So, when they were spikes, it should make sense. They dont have to be nicrosil, as they always were spikes, you'd get the Allomantic or Ferochemic power by piercing yourself with them na dhave access to the age stored in them. The question is just, witch powers exactly will be transfered by them? And, how strong the power actually will be. They say the longer a spike outside of a body / blood, the weaker they get, and this spikes have been out for 300 years... probably were they covered in blood? Btw, I wonder who found and hid them... After Vin pushed them of the tower, everyone could have found them. Maybe they fell on the head of some douchebag, and he wondered what the hell this is (i know, not really possible as it was in Kredik shaw, and not every "douchebag" has access there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Elend sold them, no idea who to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_93 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 How you know he sold them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) It's in The Well of Ascension, haven't got a page number, but it's somewhere in the beginning. Edit: It also has something about Elend being dissappointed about how little atium they actually contained. Edited November 12, 2015 by EagleOfTheForestPath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_93 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 damnation, didn't even remember that... Just reread this part again (thanks to the search-function at ebooks). You're right, he sold them to somebody, isn't mentioned who, for supplies. Interesting that they've mentioned it wasn't as much Atium in as expected, maybe an alloy of Atium? or a combination of different metals how it wasn't seen yet, so it gave him more powers (so when someone else wears them, he doesnt get just one power per brace)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 No, IMO it just means that the bracers were rather small/thin, so they didn't contain much metal at all. This does mean that for a metalmind with a small physical volume, a lot of age could be packed in tightly when stored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_93 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 True, I agree there with you. I'm just curious what will happen in the next book, as the Bands of Mourning are said to grant you the Lord Rulers ability. Of course, it's just a myth, and maybe it's really "only" the ability to store age in Atium, and maybe to burn Atium as well. To bad there's only Marsh's Atium left. But who knows, maybe they really grant somehow more powers. It would kind off "break" our knowledge of Hemalurgy, but personaly, I hope there's coming new stuff to the magic systems which we don't understand yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 The bands of mourning where supposedly gold as well as he lost the ability to regenerate when Vin ripped them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder_93 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Probably. But wouldn't be to confident about this part. He aged 1000 years within minutes... you can heal as much as you want. It wasn't like he was wounded, or sick... He was just damnation old. And i can't imagine you can "heal" old age with that. And true, Vin killed him with a spear. But I guess he was just to old to even be able to tap his metalmind... And he was dying anyways. Without stored age in Atium, you're not gonna live for long if you're 1000 years old 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Just to clear something up: I recently asked Brandon about why the Lord Ruler would spike himself with hemalurgy. Brandon then said he thought that the bracers were not hemalurgic, asked Peter about it, and Peter concurred with Brandon they were not hemalurgic. So we have some conflicting statements on the topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 They could have been made hemalurgic when they were literally ripped through his skin/arms tearing a piece of TLR soul as they went. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel16 he/him Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 you have to admit: it is plausible though, after all a nicrosil ferring is called a Soulbearer. I don't entirely agree with the hemalurgy theory, due to hemalurgic decay. are we entirely sure that the bands of mourning were small, though? maybe it was nicrosil with atium welded to it? hmn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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