Theory: Ruin and Preservation Investiture as Source of Feruchemy

[Yata]

Ruin and Preservation investiture as a Source of Feruchemy

 

Hi everyone! This is my theory about the Feruchemy's development on the people of Scadrial, or at least on the Terris People.

 

The key to this Metallic Art (for me) is the Atium or to be more precise, the Ruin's Investiture.

 

But first of all, a little backgrond on the Feruchemy:

 

Quote

Feruchemy, it should be noted, is the power of balance. Of the three powers, only it was known to men before the conflict between Preservation and Ruin came to a head. In Feruchemy, power is stored up, then later drawn upon. There is no loss of energy—just a changing of the time and rate of its use. (Hero of Ages Epigraph 34).

 

The Feruchemy was the only of the Metallic Arts to be widespread before the Rashek’s Ascension. And from the beginning of the Books seems to be “only” a genetic ability of the Terris People.

 

After this short introduction, I could begin with the theoretical part of my theory:

• Feruchemy is a manifestation of Investiture of Scadrial, from Preservation and Ruin using the Scadrial’s Focus. The metals.

• The Feruchemy is an art of balance between the two shards, therefore the two types of Investiture in the Human Beings is very important to access to this Metallic Art.

• The Scadrial’s Humans has both Preservation and Ruin Investiture but the first is greater.

• The Humans may develop Feruchemy by changing the amount of Preservation-Ruin Investiture thay have.

• An “easy” and praticable source of Ruin’s Investiture is the Atium.

 

Now we come at the Core of the Theory:

The Feruchemy could be “unlocked” by increasing the Ruin’s Investiture through eating Atium.

(a piece of Atium very small compared to a bead of Atium I suppose).

But at this point I am not sure about what the real requirements are, I have two plausible ideas and both of them have pros and contros.

1. Balancing the powers: The Preservation Investiture and Ruin Investiture have to be very similar in quantity(percentage).

2. Treeshold of the two powers: The Preservation Investiture must be at least X and Ruin Investiture must be at least X (more investiture of P or R is right too).

 

Now I will explain the global pros and contros in the theory and after the individual pros and contros of the case a and b.

 

Pro:

• The Feruchemy could be “gifted” to the Terris People by Preservation through the Terris Prophecy directing some “patriarchs” to the Pits and give manipulating them to obtain the Atium (we know that the Pits was in the Terris land).

• In a close system, the initial catalyst of Feruchemy would be preserved quite good (while they began to cross the bloodlines, the power faded).

 

Contro:

• The Hoid’s Feruchemy isn't easy to explain with this idea.

 

Now examine the individual pros and contros of the case a and b.

 

Case a: Balancing the Powers.

Pro:

• Preservation may created the Terris People with the minimun quantity of his power to make them sentient. Therefore with less (if none) Allomantic’s potential and with a lower treeshold to develop the Feruchemy by adding Ruin’s power.

• A not Scadrial Human (like Hoid) has an very very low treshoold (or null). A bit of Preservation and a bit of Ruin could be enough, Ruin could be obtained through Atium and Preservation by the Mist (He could trick the Mist to obtain at least a tiny Preservation’s Power not enough for the Allomancy)

• The “Allomancy’s gene and Feruchemy’s gene don’t mix well together” are very likely to the opposite requirement to expression itself.

• The Ruin’s powers needed to a “not Terrisman” could be to much and lethal.

• A feruchemist could be the “best holder” to both Preservation and Ruin together.

 

Contro:

• Rashek had an huge Preservation’s Power and mantained his Feruchemy, but maybe once you had the power, you can’t lose for just unbalancing the Investiture.

 

Case b: Treeshold of the two powers

Pro:

• Fullborn has no problem to exist.

• The “Atium’s Misting test” could be try to find a new potential Feruchemist as a source of Spike.

 

Contro:

• Every nobles could potentially be a Feruchemist by eating atium (The Atium is very rare and expansive, but I think Rashek used this way to obtain Spikes for the Inquisitors).

• Hoid’s Feruchemy are less likely than the case a.

 

Future Implication: With the Harmony’s Ascension now Scadrial has 2 type of Mists one of Preservation an one of Ruin and a new “god alloy”. By this theory the Harmonium could be use to became a Allomancer or Feruchemist (case a) or a Fullborn (case B  )

 

What do you think about this theory ?

Edited February 12, 2017 by Yata

[Moogle]

I really like this theory. It's clever. I've had similar thoughts, that maybe the Feruchemists are more balanced in how much Ruin and Preservation they have, and there's some evidence along those lines: Feruchemists who mix with Allomancers (and thus have children who don't have nearly as balanced levels of Preservation and Ruin) have Ferrings rather than Full Feruchemists. I didn't think about how you could get more Ruin in you, though! Eating atium is an interesting idea for how to acomplish that.

 

I don't know how likely I find this, since if you're not an Allomancer I don't see why eating atium would increase the Ruin in your Spiritweb. Allomancers who burn atium don't seem to get a bunch of Ruin in them.

 

I don't think having a balance of Ruin/Preservation is what's important (though it might be), it seems more likely to me that you just need a threshold of Ruin + Preservation in your system before you can get Feruchemy. Maybe if you use Hemalurgy and have children they'll have more Ruin in them? The Terris Prophecies included mention of the "PIercings of the Hero" thanks to Ruin's manipulations - it seems like Hemalurgy was practiced among the Terris people and perhaps not the others.

[Yata]

On 16/9/2015 at 2:51 PM, Moogle said:

 

I don't know how likely I find this, since if you're not an Allomancer I don't see why eating atium would increase the Ruin in your Spiritweb. Allomancers who burn atium don't seem to get a bunch of Ruin in them.

 

Well I have always tought about the "quantity of Investiture" and the spirit web as different thinks.

Your Investiture alter the spiritweb like the Heat could bend the metal, or the Radiations alter the DNA.

With this interpretation Lerasium( or Atium)'s Investiture become one with the Invetiture of the guy who ate them. And this "new status quo" alters the Spirit Web. If you are a Mistborn instead, you could use the Atium/Lerasium as fuel to your "Allomancy-Engine" to gain their allomantic power.

 

On 16/9/2015 at 2:51 PM, Moogle said:

I don't think having a balance of Ruin/Preservation is what's important (though it might be), it seems more likely to me that you just need a threshold of Ruin + Preservation in your system before you can get Feruchemy. Maybe if you use Hemalurgy and have children they'll have more Ruin in them? The Terris Prophecies included mention of the "PIercings of the Hero" thanks to Ruin's manipulations - it seems like Hemalurgy was practiced among the Terris people and perhaps not the others.

The "piercings of the Hero" appear to be things unique to the False-Terris-Prophecy to convince the people to believe Alendi (that Ruin had Spiked) was the true Hero of Ages. There isn't any kind of evidence about the use of Hemalurgy in the Terris comunity before Rashek (Rashek discovers the Hemalurgy during the Ascension, he don't know anything about before).

Edited February 12, 2017 by Yata

[Oudeis]

If you are a Mistborn instead, you could use the Atium/Lerasium as fuel to your "Allomancy-Engine" to gain their allomantic power.

 

This... is a model I had not considered before. You're saying that being an allomancy lets you "channel" the power of the atium, essentially giving the energy something to do, so that it doesn't end up affecting your body; without this outlet, the power of the atium might change your body in ways that affect your offspring.

 

Interesting. Not sure I believe it, but it's certainly plausible. Another thought: Feruchemy is the system of balance, yet we have a quote saying Preservation gave it to men. Well, Preservation is the one who created the system of atium. Perhaps Preservation, making atium a thing, is what "gave" it to the Terris people.

[Yata]

This... is a model I had not considered before. You're saying that being an allomancy lets you "channel" the power of the atium, essentially giving the energy something to do, so that it doesn't end up affecting your body; without this outlet, the power of the atium might change your body in ways that affect your offspring.

 

Yes this is the main point, the same thing I think happen with the Lerasium (and all its alloys).

 

 

Interesting. Not sure I believe it, but it's certainly plausible. Another thought: Feruchemy is the system of balance, yet we have a quote saying Preservation gave it to men. Well, Preservation is the one who created the system of atium. Perhaps Preservation, making atium a thing, is what "gave" it to the Terris people.

Quite interesting you put the facts in this way. Because I have a big Idea about Scadrial as a Shardworld and the creation of the Pits of Hatsin and the "gift" of Feruchemy is just a part of this.

 

The main obstacle for me now is to understood how hoid obtains the Feruchemy.

 

Anyway I'm happy for the positive feedback to this Theory.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Yata

[Oudeis]

It's widely theorized, though who knows if it's true, that Hoid has several "native" powers that came about under the reign of Adonalsium on Yolen. So his method of obtaining feruchemy might have as little to do with the terris as his Lightweaving has to do with a liespren.

[Yata]

On 16/9/2015 at 8:09 PM, Oudeis said:

It's widely theorized, though who knows if it's true, that Hoid has several "native" powers that came about under the reign of Adonalsium on Yolen. So his method of obtaining feruchemy might have as little to do with the terris as his Lightweaving has to do with a liespren.

It's a big semplification indeed.

Maybe He has some "ancestral investiture" (big name to design only Investiture-pre-shattering) but it's unlikely the existence of the Feruchemy on Yolen (with the same focus and same storable attributes).

Edited February 12, 2017 by Yata

[Oudeis]

Well, you say "same storeable attribute"... that we know of, he's not "storing" in metal, and which feruchemical attribute would let him "know where he needs to be"? It could be something that works like feruchemy in a way, but might not be like Scadrian feruchemy.

[Yata]

If He had "something similar to the feruchemy but quite different", I could easy accept its.

 

But you have right, we don't know enough about Hoid's peculiar abilities to use him as proof or counterproof for something.

 

PS: I had always though that Hoid use a Duralluminiumind (connection) to "know where he needs to be" but It depends by the true structure of the Spiritual-Cognitive-Psysical Realms(in my mind it could work, but there isn't any proof).

Edited February 12, 2017 by Yata

[DreamEternal]

Question: If having a more balanced mix of Ruin and preservation grants feruchemy with no bad side effects, why Sazed, who probably doens't want to have more Ruin than preservation, didn't make everyone a feruchemist? Or at least everyobe born after the Final ascension? I think Sazed eould like to do something more useful with that extra Ruin than turning it into a metal few could use fir something other than hemalurgy, at least before the intents of his shards warped him into non-interference.

[yurisses]

Brandon Sanderson

[Feruchemy] is hereditary, but it came from somewhere. [...] Which is a RAFO, but it’s not a big RAFO. There’s not something you missed in the books, or anything like that. It originally came from Preservation long ago. And there are other ways to get it, but you have not missed any major plot points regarding that. (source)

Czanos (17 October 2008)

Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (Minus Atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or Atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts?

Brandon Sanderson (17 October 2008)

Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the metallic arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.

(source)

I'm a little tired to write interpretations of these quotes but I think you will find them useful for theorising about the source of Feruchemy.

[Yata]

Question: If having a more balanced mix of Ruin and preservation grants feruchemy with no bad side effects, why Sazed, who probably doens't want to have more Ruin than preservation, didn't make everyone a feruchemist? Or at least everyobe born after the Final ascension? I think Sazed eould like to do something more useful with that extra Ruin than turning it into a metal few could use fir something other than hemalurgy, at least before the intents of his shards warped him into non-interference.

We saw Harmony follow a path of "freedom" with the people of Scadrial. Maybe he don't want to omologate them with a Feruchemist's world. Or maybe unlock the Feruchemy are not safe like I though (think about the Snapping) and many peoples will die.

Anyway in the Theory there are a point about. the Future Implication.

 

We know by WoB that Harmony created a new alloy, the Harmonium. Using this theory the Harmonium could turn a Human to a Feruchemist/Mistborn/Fullborn. Therefore Harmony had his own plans, maybe to give the catalyst of the Metal Art to the Southern Scradrial people.

 

 

I'm a little tired to write interpretations of these quotes but I think you will find them useful for theorising about the source of Feruchemy.

Well the "Preservation giving" is compatible with this Theory, The Hesitant god to fuel the metallic arts, is no more a problem. In the past there was a war of power (WoT cit. XD) and if a god expends parts of his power, the other will take advantage from this (before the power could come avaliable).

[Edgedancer]

Question, Atium was created when Preservation created the Pits of Hathsin, at the same time he sacrificed his mind to create the prison for Ruin. How did he still actively give the Terrismen anything after no longer having his mind to control the power of Preservation? Did the mist spirit lure them into the pits and somehow got them to eat the Atium?

Edited September 17, 2015 by Edgedancer

[Yata]

Question, Atium was created when Preservation created the Pits of Hathsin, at the same time he sacrificed his mind to create the prison for Ruin. How did he still actively give the Terrismen anything after no longer having his mind to control the power of Preservation? Did the mist spirit lure them into the pits and somehow got them to eat the Atium?

Lefting the Prophecys before He bretayed Ruin.

He didn't need of the Spirit, the Terrisman whorship him, or maybe the gift of the Feruchemy was the first reason of the Preservation's cult.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Yata

[Oudeis]

Well, we do know the mist spirit, the Shadow of Self, used to be much more than it currently is. Why couldn't it be Terr's communication to his people? The Firsts clearly know of the shadow of self, and in the third book, the epigraphs speak of a time the Mist Spirit wielded enormous power, able to perform powerful allomancy.

 

I wonder if part of its weakening came from Vin... we know the Mists came to her as a child, preparing her to one day take the Well and eventually all of the Mists. She was also unparalleled good at allomancy. Maybe the Spirit gave her some of his talent?

[Edgedancer]

Well, we do know the mist spirit, the Shadow of Self, used to be much more than it currently is. Why couldn't it be Terr's communication to his people? The Firsts clearly know of the shadow of self, and in the third book, the epigraphs speak of a time the Mist Spirit wielded enormous power, able to perform powerful allomancy.

I wonder if part of its weakening came from Vin... we know the Mists came to her as a child, preparing her to one day take the Well and eventually all of the Mists. She was also unparalleled good at allomancy. Maybe the Spirit gave her some of his talent?

Because by the timeline Sazed gave us, Feruchemy was known to men before the conflict between Preservation and Ruin came to a head and while that is somewhat vague I really don't think that any time after Preservation imprisoning Ruin would cut that description.

[Oudeis]

Aru? Where does it say that the terris possessed feruchemy before Preservation trapped Ruin? We know it was before Rashek's ascension, but I do not recall any reference saying that they possessed it before Ruin was trapped.

[Edgedancer]

Aru? Where does it say that the terris possessed feruchemy before Preservation trapped Ruin? We know it was before Rashek's ascension, but I do not recall any reference saying that they possessed it before Ruin was trapped.

Hero of Ages chapter 34

 

 

Feruchemy, it should be noted, is the power of balance. Of the three powers, only it was known to men before the conflict between Preservation and Ruin came to a head. In Feruchemy, power is stored up, then later drawn upon. There is no loss of energy—just a changing of the time and rate of its use.

Again it doesn't exactly say "before Ruin was imprisoned" but I'd have a hard time reading it any different.

 

[Yata]

It could refer to the conflict about "Ruin getting free and Preservation plan to stop it".

 

Because reading the books i imaginated something like that:

P: If you help me to create life on this world, then you could destroy more things.

R: Wow....cool, let's do this.

(life on scadrial loading........)

R: Well, we finished, now i could destroy.

P: Ehm ...sure.

(Mega trap aganist Ruin)

R: Nooooooo (like the Devil in Tenacious D: pick of Destiny)

 

Something like, just after finish Preservation betrayed Ruin.

[bluepotion]

I like the balancing part of this theory however I don't think a person would be balanced from eating a piece of atium or at least that this alone wouldn't unlock feruchemy.

 

The main thing that turns me off from this is that it's pretty safe to say the lord ruler know about atium mistings and that he searched members of his ministry for seers, unless yomen was just a very lucky mistake.  Next we know that the Lord Ruler feared someone besides himself becoming fullborn, this is why he hunted feruchemist so much.  So I believe that if the lord ruler was willing to let anyone know that a atium misting was possible then there is no way that atium could grant feruchemic powers.

 

If atium could grant feruchemic powers i believe that the lord ruler would of went to extremes in order to hide the truth about seers, he would fear other people learning about seers and that they would test atium along with the other metals when trying to force a snapping to occur.  Therefore the lord ruler would of killed Yomen and anyone else the learned of seers to make sure that no one could leak the info

[Yata]

An Atium misting will burn the Atium (like a mistborn). He doesn't metabolizes it.

It's the same with the lerasium, if you could actually "burn it", you gain some "unkwon effect" while if you leave your body metabolizes it, your strenght in Allomancy improve (or you gain allomancy if you hadn't before.

 

PS: Probably Rashek searched Atium misting in the Nobles to give his Inquisitor the Atium power or to turn the noble into a new Inquisitor. Why Yolen is still living and Human, I don't know. Maybe he was simple to usefull in his role.

[natc]

Except I'm pretty sure the lerasium-enhancing allomancy thing has been specifically described as burning.

[Yata]

Except I'm pretty sure the lerasium-enhancing allomancy thing has been specifically described as burning.

I mean that "granting Allomancy" is a Side effect of the Lerasium, not its Allomantic Effect.

 

 

 

CHAOS

Does atium have a "side effect", much like how lerasium has a "side effect" in creating Mistborn?

BRANDON SANDERSON

RAFO

Maybe my words are wrong but I used "burn" and "metabolize" to speak about the cases.

[Oudeis]

No... there's a WoB out there saying that lerasium is basically a metal "anyone can burn". It rewrites your spiritweb, and the default setting is to rewrite a stronger connection to preservation, effectively making you a Mistborn. If you knew what you were doing, you could choose to do something else with lerasium, but it would still be by the same mechanism. You're still 'burning' it either way, but it's like, if you take brass for the first time and just instinctively push, you might be Soothing every emotion at once, and just making people feel apathy. If you know what you're doing, you can reduce only anger, or everything but fear, and do something very, very different. But it's still using the same power, the same way.

 

Also, someone asking a question with an assumed premise, when the answer is RAFO, is not proof that the assumed premise of the question was correct.

 

Also, I will try to find it... there's a WoB, I believe, or it might be in the annotations, that atium shavings were secretly fed to some obligators to see if they were Seers. This isn't it but it implies it... ooo, also, proof Rashek knew about duralumin, which I was contending recently somewhere else...

 

If it's being tested, I don't think leaving it in someone's stomach without burning it makes them a feruchemist. The lerasium made Elend an allomancer instantly, and vin had her atium from Zane in her stomach for hours.

[Eagle of the Forest Path]

I am pretty certain that Atium can't grant Feruchemical powers if digested instead of burned, because in TFE Kelsier states that Atium degrades quickly when left in the stomach, meaning that this must have happened before (otherwise it wouldn't be known), which would mean that every Mistborn who ever swallowed their Atium too long before burning would have become a Feruchemist, and since there was only ever one Lord Ruler, I think we can assume that didn't happen.

 

Both Allomancy and Feruchemy (and Hemalurgy) are a result of Preservation and Ruin's presence on Scadrial. The difference being that Allomancy comes solely from Preservation and Feruchemy comes from both Ruin and Preservation. This is what makes Allomancy an end-positive magic system, because the Intent (capitalized) of Preservation means that the power of the Allomancer must be preserved, drawing the power from the Shard itself instead. Feruchemy, being the result of both shards, lessens the power of the Feruchemist while storing (Ruin) but it is preserved (Preservation, duh) inside a metalmind.

 

None of the three Metallic Arts were created or granted to people by Ruin or Preservation, they simply originated due to the shards' presence on the world of Scadrial. Meaning that all three: Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy; were present on Scadrial from the very beginning (or close to it). Allomancy was originally very weak and therefore unknown, only coming to the foreground in the Final Empire due to Rashek and some others burning Lerasium granting them a lot of investiture linked to Preservation and passing it on to their descendants. (btw Hemalurgy was unknown before the Final Empire, probably because pounding bits of metal through people into other people isn't something normal people would think of doing).

 

Meaning that Feruchemists and Allomancers can (normally) only be born, not made (apart from the ultra-rare Lerasium and by Hemalurgy). In the quotes higher up this thread Sanderson states that there are other ways to get it, but that could be by something like getting it as a boon from the Nightwatcher on Roshar to become a Feruchemist (meaning you'd have to take a curse to go along with it). Another possibility could be using Forgery (like in the Emperor's Soul) to rewrite someone's Spiritweb, but as that would involve reimagining their past as to be descended from a Feruchemist - someone from another world - I don't imagine the forgery would last very long.

 

Now as to which people originally became Feruchemists or Allomancers, I'm going to take my cue from Sel (world of Elantris, for those who didn't know). I imagine it has to do with proximity to either Ruin and Preservation, or more likely their shardpools (the Well of Ascension and the Black Lake under the pits of Hathsin) at the time Ruin and Preservation created intelligent life on Scadrial. So the people nearest Preservation would have gained the potential to become Allomancers, the people nearest Ruin wouldn't have gained anything (since anyone can use Hemalurgy) and the people halfway between the two would have gained the potential to become Feruchemists.

Just like the only people with the potential to become Elantrians are descended from the people that were near Devotion's shardpool in Arelon.

Edited October 2, 2015 by EagleOfTheForestPath