EHyde Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I'm wondering about the term "safe hand." I don't have a problem with the concept itself, in fact I like that they have a modesty custom that isn't related to any of ours. But I'm curious about where it came from, and if the term "safe" is significant. Safe isn't the alternative to public, it's the alternative to either in danger or dangerous -- so maybe the name for the practice is a holdover from when it was more than just a modesty issue? I may be reading way too much into this, but on the other hand, I'm getting the impression that this forum encourages reading way too much into stuff :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivertongue Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 The forum, as a whole, indeed does. I don't. However, I've been curious about this as well. I look forward to what people suggest. As everyone knows, I keep my theories to myself. By the way, welcome to 17th Shard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I don't know if there's a reason behind it. I know that there are some cultures which view different hands as clean and unclean, I just assumed that the safe/free hand thing was just an extrapolation from that. However, knowing Brandon, there actually is something big behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivertongue Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 I don't know if there's a reason behind it. I know that there are some cultures which view different hands as clean and unclean, I just assumed that the safe/free hand thing was just an extrapolation from that. However, knowing Brandon, there actually is something big behind it. Unless that's just what he WANTS us to think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 Dang it! Stop making me question my questioning of my assumptions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 What I'm curious about is whether a woman is left or right handed determines which is her safehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 it seems to always be the left hand, which must suck for left handed women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHyde Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 It could lead to some interesting psychological issues, if the hand they were better at using was the obscene one, or maybe some would never even realize that they weren't just clumsy and uncoordinated. Perhaps there are no left-handed women? Their biology doesn't seem to be quite the same as ours so it's possible that works differently too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Interesting anecdote that is somewhat related to this conversation: My sister was born left-handed. Everything she did, she did with her left hand. When she was about three or four my parents decided that it would be better for her to be right-handed. So they taped her left hand shut for two weeks. Now my sister is a fully functional right-handed person. So... it's probably not as big a deal as you might think at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHyde Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 That's really interesting, I wouldn't have thought that just two weeks would be enough to change that. I stand corrected -- thanks for sharing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think it might depend on the person, I did some poking around on Google an it looks like some people suffer permanent problems from being made to switch hands and others don't. Amusingly, I'm mixed handed, I write with my right hand (and can't with my left) but I prefer to throw balls and do other things that require strength with my left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I've been thinking about the safehand and standards of modesty in Vorin cultures for a while. I've come to the conclusion that the safehand is about the same level of modesty as the midriff- not completely off limits, but expected to be covered in proper society. It's also a fairly good similarity in regards to the male-female biforcation. Men can walk around shirtless, but women are expected to cover up. Also it's common for the prostitutes to leave their safe hands uncovered and the waitresses at the less-than-family-friendly establishment Szeth was in were un-gloved as well. Just interesting I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 It could be something simple- like a princess that had her hand burned, so she put a sleeve to hide it and everyone emulated her- or it could be something drastically important- at some point in the forgotten past, it was prophesied that the savior of the planet and the slayer of Odium would use HER right hand, because her left was safe and covered. But knowing Brandon, there is SOME reason behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 It could be something simple- like a princess that had her hand burned, so she put a sleeve to hide it and everyone emulated her- or it could be something drastically important- at some point in the forgotten past, it was prophesied that the savior of the planet and the slayer of Odium would use HER right hand, because her left was safe and covered. But knowing Brandon, there is SOME reason behind it. I'm reminded of a story where a person in his writing group (possibly Dan) thought the safe hand was really dumb, but Brandon kept it anyway. There has to be a logic behind it for him to keep something that people would think "man, that's silly" in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Interesting anecdote that is somewhat related to this conversation: My sister was born left-handed. Everything she did, she did with her left hand. When she was about three or four my parents decided that it would be better for her to be right-handed. So they taped her left hand shut for two weeks. Now my sister is a fully functional right-handed person. So... it's probably not as big a deal as you might think at first. As a left handed person, this is kinda horrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prehistoricman Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 It could be something simple- like a princess that had her hand burned, so she put a sleeve to hide it and everyone emulated her- or it could be something drastically important- at some point in the forgotten past, it was prophesied that the savior of the planet and the slayer of Odium would use HER right hand, because her left was safe and covered. But knowing Brandon, there is SOME reason behind it. I could have sworn that Brandon gave an explanation for this already, but I can't remember where I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I could have sworn that Brandon gave an explanation for this already, but I can't remember where I saw it. Possibly here: Brandonothology And I quote: Jon wrote: "My burning question for Brandon is did I miss the explanation, world building moment or historical gem that explains why women have a safe hand and why they must keep it covered?" No, you haven't missed it. People have asked about this. There will be more explanation in-world as it comes along, but it's for much the same reason that in some cultures in our world you don't show people the bottoms of your feet, and in other cultures showing the top of your head is offensive. It's part of what has grown out of the Vorin culture, and there are reasons for it. One of them has to do with a famous book written by an artist who claimed that true feminine pursuits and arts were those that could be performed with one hand, while masculine arts were those performed with two hands, in a way associating delicacy with women and brute force with men. Some people in Roshar disagree with this idea, but the custom has grown out of that foundational work on masculine and feminine arts. That's where that came from. One aspect of this is that women began to paint one-handed and do things one-handed in upper, higher society. You'll notice that the lower classes don't pay a lot of attention to it—they'll just wear a glove. As a student of human nature and of anthropology, it fascinates me how some cultures create one thing as being taboo whereas in another culture, the same thing can be very much not taboo. It's just what we do as people. There's more to it than that, but that will stand for now. Edited March 26, 2011 by Endra kin'Fox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 And Prehistoric man, that quote is there because of your lingering memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Ye, that's about it. There's definitely more to it than we've been shown, but for the most part, it's just an odd cultural quirk. People may find it annoying, but I find it very true to human nature, especially the part where Kaladin unwillingly stares at the prostitutes uncovered hand. It seems bizarre, but it isn't really. Or if it is, it's because we're bizarre; we've just come to terms with ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I've got it. On Roshar, gender is determined by whether you are left or right handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I've got it. On Roshar, gender is determined by whether you are left or right handed. To be more specific, if you're born left handed you're automatically a guy, if you're right handed you get to choose! So women are infinitely better because every woman chose to be that way, while most of the men are lefthanders who got stuck being guys. <--(Not biased at all) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 To be more specific, if you're born left handed you're automatically a guy, if you're right handed you get to choose! So women are infinitely better because every woman chose to be that way, while most of the men are lefthanders who got stuck being guys. <--(Not biased at all) Actually, that almost matches how the gender thing happens in utero. Er wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Umm... Someone needs to give Puck "the talk" it seems. 1, 2, 3... NOSE GOES!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 lol actually the way it works is that every embryo starts off developing in the female pattern, until in males, some genes on the Y chromosome turn on and redirect the development. If those genes are damaged somehow, you can get an XY individual who's outwardly female. So much for the Bible saying that women were created from men, huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Unless you are Napoleon and you start growing breasts as an old man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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