How he's still around (SPOILERS)

[Observer]

I'm not sure if it's been established yet, so here's my theory. Kelsier died in his stunt with the Lord Ruler, and yet somehow managed to stick around in the cognitive/spiritual realm instead of moving on. Brandon mentioned that sometimes people have something tying them down to the physical realm, which is a lot more plausible than saying it was sheer force of will, because there are plenty of other people who probably didn't want to move on either.

 

Kelsier is the Survivor. He is god, essentially, to the skaa. Almost from the moment he died and all the way up to Alloy of Law, he's been worshipped as the Survivor, as the symbol of life. We already know what kind of an effect the belief of others has on the cognitive realm, so I propose the following:

 

Thanks to the massive amounts of believers in him, Kelsier was able to "survive" death. The cognitive devotion of his thousands of followers is tethering him to Scarial, keeping him from moving on. So he hangs out with Sazed, maybe influences decisions, and possibly meddling with the cognitive realm using the power given to him by so much belief. Kelsier is alive because people see him as alive. Makes sense to me.

Thoughts?

Edited April 14, 2013 by Observer

[Galavantes]

Works for me.

[SwiftSteel he/him]

I like that

[Kurkistan he/him]

Sounds plausible.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

They only started worshipping him after he was dead though.

So he had to have stuck around for another reason beforehand.

[Galavantes]

They only started worshipping him after he was dead though.

So he had to have stuck around for another reason beforehand.

I think he was actually worshipped during his life as well. I can't remember the exact quote, but one of the crew commented that he was setting himself up as a religious figure to the skaa. He openly used his powers in front of them, and interfered in the Demoux fight but pretended Demoux won just for supporting Kelsier.

[Observer]

He was already the legendary Survivor in everybody's eyes, and before he died he did have that one line about being unkillable, so meh. And in any case we don't know how long it takes somebody to get permanently sucked away.

[Chaos he/him]

That's exactly what I thought happened. At the very least he's sticking around in the Cognitive or Spiritual Realm; that much is clear.

[Windrunner he/him]

I proposed a similar theory based on belief a while ago, but for different reasons. I could see this also being a valid explanation.
 
Also, just for clarity's sake, it's the Cognitive Realm that Kel is in.
 

FIRSTRAINBOWROSE (17 OCTOBER 2008)
I just wanted to add in my two cents and say it was absolutely brilliant... and I think I'm starting to be able to breath again (crying that much hurts)...I also really loved that there's an "cameo" for Kelsier at the end... that made me really happy to see.
BRANDON SANDERSON (17 OCTOBER 2008)
Glad you liked the book, Rainbow!

You may want to note that the moment Preservation dropped out and let the last of his consciousness die, someone was waiting in the Cognitive Realm to seize the power and hold on for a short period until Vin could take it up more fully. You'll find him using it to whisper in moments of great stress in the book, to one person in specific in two places. (I'll bet someone on here has already found them.)

He never could just let things well enough alone....
Source

[Vortaan he/him]

So where's Rashek under this theory? He's still worshipped as god by a lot of people, even up to AoL. Shouldn't he be hanging around somewhere too?

[Windrunner he/him]

That's on my list of questions for the AMA. Unfortunately I probably won't ask it because 4 questions is a bit too much for an AMA that's based on the WoT.

[Observer]

I think cognitive holdups need to be a bit more specific than "He's god". The theory revolves around Kelsier living not because people see him as god, but because they see him as a symbol of life and survival. I don't think Rashek has the specificity nor the worshiper-count to hold him down.

[TheChronicFeruchemist she/her]

Works for me. Though maybe the reason that TLR didn't stick around is because he didn't want to, it doesn't mean he didn't have the choice too.

[Vortaan he/him]

I think cognitive holdups need to be a bit more specific than "He's god". The theory revolves around Kelsier living not because people see him as god, but because they see him as a symbol of life and survival. I don't think Rashek has the specificity nor the worshiper-count to hold him down.

 

Compared to Kelsier, I would wager around the time that Kelsier assumes Preservation's power, Rashek has maybe a few less followers. Why? Survivorism was mainly a Luthadel and the surrounding area religion, and it never seemed to penetrate the farming communities that never really dealt with Kelsier. Look at Sazed's WoA or Elend's HoA viewpoints when they go to small villages. Many peasants seemed to want Rashek to return to protect them. With the world ending, a lot of people seem to have fallen back to Ministry teachings.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Compared to Kelsier, I would wager around the time that Kelsier assumes Preservation's power, Rashek has maybe a few less followers. Why? Survivorism was mainly a Luthadel and the surrounding area religion, and it never seemed to penetrate the farming communities that never really dealt with Kelsier. Look at Sazed's WoA or Elend's HoA viewpoints when they go to small villages. Many peasants seemed to want Rashek to return to protect them. With the world ending, a lot of people seem to have fallen back to Ministry teachings.

You mean Rashek has more followers, right?

[Vortaan he/him]

You mean Rashek has more followers, right?

 

I mean less, the Outer Dominances are hit pretty hard by koloss. Those little villages seem to lean towards the Ministry, but those are the same villages that Ruin is using to make koloss.

[Observer]

There's a small chance Rashek is still around somehow, but I kind of think he'd want to move on. He's free from shardic influence and he's worn himself out over a thousand years. He deserves a rest.

[Grumpadon]

I like the theory that belief is able to keep Kelsier around after death, but maybe there is also a physical aspect to him staying 'alive' in a sense? For instance, the spike that was created when Kelsier was killed? That might explain why Rashek passed on despite having more believers.

[Observer]

Problem with that is that Rashek had spikes too. More that Kelsier did, in fact.

[Vortaan he/him]

Problem with that is that Rashek had spikes too. More that Kelsier did, in fact.

 

What spikes did Rashek have? Maybe the atium in his arms, but we seem him shirtless and no spikes are mentioned.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

What spikes did Rashek have? Maybe the atium in his arms, but we seem him shirtless and no spikes are mentioned.

His armbracers were definitely hemalurgic.

[Vortaan he/him]

His armbracers were definitely hemalurgic.

 

His armbands were definitely metal piercing his skin. Any proof that they were spikes? 

[Kurkistan he/him]

Yes.

[Grumpadon]

Not to mention that Kelsier died to make his spike, wheras Rashek didn't.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Not to mention that Kelsier died to make his spike, wheras Rashek didn't.

Did he?

Honestly I don't recall the whole 'kelsier becoming a spike' thing at all. Do you have a source for that?

Edited April 19, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity