Odium & the Oathpact

[Zas678]

So Almighty says "Odium has killed me. I am sorry."

But! When Kaladin is riding the storm (648 I think), the voice tells him the Oathpact is broken, and that Odium is coming. The voice ends saying "Odium Reigns"

Wait- I found the answer to my question-sort of. After the voice says the Oathpact is broken and Odium is coming, Kaladin asks why must men fight. The voice then softly answers "Odium Reigns".

So the voice is saying that Odium likes people to fight battles for him, much like Hoid says in the epigraphs.

Anyways. My other question I was going to ask- If Odium is on his way to Roshar, then how was the Almighty killed? Or is he not dead yet?

And who is this voice? He talks about how the Oathpact was "shattered" and "broken". What is this?

[Shivertongue]

(First of all, just because I'm OCD like that, I've corrected your post to spell 'Oathpact' correctly. Hope you don't mind.)

The Almighty is dead, and I'm pretty sure Odium is on Roshar currently. Which is why the Almighty is dead, and probably why we should be worrying about Cultivation.

If he's not on Roshar currently, and it was stated somewhere in the book, then I must have missed it.

[mycoltbug]

The Oathpact as we understand is an oath or saying that a Knight Radiant must say to draw extra powers/abilities.  Kaladin when he said the Oathpact was able to do many things to a greater extent. So we can only assume that the Oathpact may have been broken but maybe fully or partially restored with Kaladin speaking it again.  That would make a great question of the next time I see Brandon.  " Was the Oathpact restored when Kaladin gave the Oath?" To bad we may have to wait another month to get the official and nearly obligatory " That is an interesting observation" response that Brandon has now taken to giving me.

[Ryan]

Actually, that's incorrect.

Here's what we know for certain: the Heralds held one end of the Oathpact. It is presumably how they got their powers and why they always have to go back to a place of torture between desolations. When they refused to go back, the Oathpact was broken.

What follows involves some extrapolation/speculation on my part:

The Oathpact is a deal made between the Almighty, the Heralds, and Odium. Exploiting the fact that Odium is bound to follow certain rules (I forget who said that, but I think it was the Almighty in Dalinar's last vision), it set up a system whereby the Almighty got a set of ten immortal champions with superpowers and super weapons to lead mankind against the forces of Odium (the Voidbringers and friends). The Desolations were battles pitched under the terms of the Oathpact.

It is stated explicitly that Odium ("The Enemy") realized that he could not win a war of escalation

[Deano Stormblessed]

I like the thoery. I want to know, what and where is this place the Heralds go to be tortured? Shadesmar? Another planet? The little mentioned spiritual realm? Where ever it is, Odium must have a lot of power there.

[Ryan]

I don't know if it was in interviews or annotations or what, but I remember Brandon stating that Kelsier, once dead, wound up in the spiritual realm. Heralds go back to the place of nightmares when they die. So, it wouldn't be too outlandish to theorize that they are kept in the spiritual realm between desolations.

[Deano Stormblessed]

It is interesting, we have speculated massively on Shadesmar, specially since the map appeared in WoK, but no one has really bothered wondering about the spiritual realm, even though it is an important part of the magic systems of the shards.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

When you think about it, in the part of the spiritual realm corresponding to Roshar, you'd see Shardblades floating around everywhere, following their bonds.  It's kind of a funny image, but it might be important.

[Deano Stormblessed]

When you think about it, in the part of the spiritual realm corresponding to Roshar, you'd see Shardblades floating around everywhere, following their bonds.  It's kind of a funny image, but it might be important.

Sorry, but where does this come from?

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

Well, we know that the Shardblades are stored in the spiritual realm, so it's really the logical conclusion to be reached.

[Deano Stormblessed]

Would the spiritual world be geographically the same as the physical world? Would the shardblade just stay in the one place, or actually move around as you walk through the physical world?

But I must admit, it is a funny picture.

[Silus - Shard of Flame]

Shadesmar seems to reflect the physical world.  Note how the Shadesmar map is the same as Roshar except with oceans and land flipped.  I would assume that the spiritual realm would be the same.

[Deano Stormblessed]

I wonder if being in different parts of Shadesmar changes what you can do? There has to be some reason that Shadesmar has different names for different areas.

[Emeralis00]

@Ryan I like your theories.

However, I think that the Oathpact was also "physically" broken.  People who know what the Oathpact is only know the first ideal, and not any ideal after (excepting kaladin who knows two).  Perhaps Odium also caused people to forget what the last three ideals were so that humankind couldn't use the ideals against him.

[Andrew the Great]

@Emeralis00: You're mistaking the Oathpact for the ideals of the Knights Radiant. The Oathpact is only referenced in the prelude in the conversation between the Heralds. So far as we know, it has nothing to do with the Knights Radiant. The Knights Radiant may have based their ideals on the Oathpact, or something else entirely. We just don't know. However, the ideals of the Knights Radiant and the Oathpact are not one and the same.

[Emeralis00]

@Emeralis00: You're mistaking the Oathpact for the ideals of the Knights Radiant. The Oathpact is only referenced in the prelude in the conversation between the Heralds. So far as we know, it has nothing to do with the Knights Radiant. The Knights Radiant may have based their ideals on the Oathpact, or something else entirely. We just don't know. However, the ideals of the Knights Radiant and the Oathpact are not one and the same.

hmm...are you sure, I thought that the ideals were referred to as the Oathpact by Syl.  Unfortunately, I don't have access to WoK at the moment to reread the book.

[Deano Stormblessed]

I found her calling them 'words' and 'ideals' but not oathpact, but I haven't looked properly yet.

[Andrew the Great]

I'm almost 100% sure on this, though I don't have time to go through and check it with the book right now. If I finish my homework before 1 or so, I'll get on again and see if I can find it.

[DariusJenai]

Syl never refers to the Oathpact.  The only time we see it outside of the Prelude is in chapter 46, while Kaladin has his highstorm dream, when the voice says (twice) that the Oathpact is shattered.

(Interestingly enough, in my copy, the text says Ooathpact)

CHILD OF TANAVAST. CHILD OF HONOR. CHILD OF ONE LONG SINCE DEPARTED. The sudden voice shook Kaladin; he floundered in the air.

THE OOATHPACT WAS SHATTERED.

The booming sound made the stormwall itself vibrate. Kaladin hit the ground, separating from the storm. He skidded to a stop, feet throwing up sprays of water. Stormwinds crashed into him, but he was enough a part of them that they neither tossed nor shook him.

MEN RIDE THE STORMS NO LONGER. The voice was thunder, crashing in the air. THE OOATHPACT IS BROKEN, CHILD OF HONOR.

[Zas678]

Oh, I know what the Ooathpact was. That's Peter's contract with Brandon.

The Oathpact is also mentioned in the prelude, when they wonder if it will stay since someone will be there for the next desolation.

[Samh9]

The Oathpact is a deal made between the Almighty, the Heralds, and Odium. Exploiting the fact that Odium is bound to follow certain rules (I forget who said that, but I think it was the Almighty in Dalinar's last vision), it set up a system whereby the Almighty got a set of ten immortal champions with superpowers and super weapons to lead mankind against the forces of Odium (the Voidbringers and friends). The Desolations were battles pitched under the terms of the Oathpact.

Someone says to Dalinar (I think in the visions, but I can't look right know) that he must appoint a champion. They said Odium cannot refuse.

The desolations were Odium's champions (the voidbringers) versus the Almighty's champions (the heralds). Dalinar will probably find a way to bond Odium into having to fight champions (Shallan, Kaladin)