Wax can burn Pewter

[Commander Spoonface]

that was me yeah, I asked him what metal it was made of at the Vancouver signing, he refused to tell me, but he did say it's got a slight hemalurgic charge. He also wrote in my book that it's made from a melted down Inquisitor spike.

A hemalurgic spike loses energy the longer it's not in a body, right? So Wax is gaining whatever power he has from not only the person who the spike was hammered through to make the Inquisitor, but also the inquisitor itself. We don't know the rate of hemalurgic decay, but I don't think it matters what kind of spike it is. After all, Harmony can fuel of the metallic arts, right? So as long as Wax is wearing his earring he can receive boosts of power from Harmony.

[fyodor]

I don't have my copy, but can somebody check the Elend vs Marsh fight scene in HoA to check how it was described?

It's basically described as a sensation of having access to metals that he had previously used up-he still used them the way he had before. Unfortunately the google books preview is blocked for those pages.

Edited December 23, 2011 by fyodor

[Eric]

Okay, it's been a long time since my Biology and Anatomy classes. Therefore, I am partially remembering something that might explain it all, or might be entirely irrelevant. Can anyone tell me how precisely muscle mass affects muscle strength? I've been under the impression that if mass increased more than the cross-sectional area of the muscle increases, the force exerted by the muscle increased. Thus, I've never seen anything odd in storing weight (assuming it stores mass), as the muscles would be relatively stronger/weaker in *almost* direct proportion to the weight of the body. Since they have to contend with extra mass all around, it wouldn't be as strong as just increasing muscle-mass (as with storing strength), but it wouldn't be as bad as just straight up being heavier. How wrong am I?

That said, I agree that Harmony fueling additional power through the earring is likely the source of the burst of strength.

A hemalurgic spike loses energy the longer it's not in a body, right? So Wax is gaining whatever power he has from not only the person who the spike was hammered through to make the Inquisitor, but also the inquisitor itself.

Wait, what? Why would he get power from the Inquisitor?

Edited December 24, 2011 by Eric

[Commander Spoonface]

Wait, what? Why would he get power from the Inquisitor?

We already know that a hemalurgic spike can be hammered through multiple people before being spiked into the target. That's how they make inquisitors, after all. Since the spike was taken from an inquisitor and spiked into Wax, it would be just like the spike was hammered through several people, on through the Inquisitor and into him. Of course, there is a significant gap in between the inquisitor and Wax, during which Hemalurgic decay would take place. He wouldn't get all of the Inquisitor's powers, just whatever that spike steals.

[Eric]

That should only be true if the bind point is the same as the theft point. To steal things, it has to pass through the heart, as per Marsh's internal monologue in the opening of Hero of Ages, Marsh creating the spike to allow Ruin to get to Penrod, and Marsh's recollections on his own transformation. It's exceedingly unlikely that any of the Inquisitor's spikes pierced their hearts and were later removed from the other side while they were still alive, especially given that I'm sure I've read their hearts aren't even in the same spot as a human's. And Wax's heart isn't in his ear.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Eric

[Ari]

Is it possible for a Shard to fuel the human attributes that Kandra spike themselves with the same way they can fuel allomancy? If so, harmony could essentially have given him the "blessing of might" power by enhancing his human strength for a short time.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

That should only be true if the bind point is the same as the theft point. To steal things, it has to pass through the heart, as per Marsh's internal monologue in the opening of Hero of Ages, Marsh creating the spike to allow Ruin to get to Penrod, and Marsh's recollections on his own transformation. It's exceedingly unlikely that any of the Inquisitor's spikes pierced their hearts and were later removed from the other side while they were still alive, especially given that I'm sure I've read their hearts aren't even in the same spot as a human's. And Wax's heart isn't in his ear.

The heart is not the only bind point you can use for theft, though. There are numerous points, which is part of how you control what you steal.

[Commander Spoonface]

Is it possible for a Shard to fuel the human attributes that Kandra spike themselves with the same way they can fuel allomancy? If so, harmony could essentially have given him the "blessing of might" power by enhancing his human strength for a short time.

Ruin can probably fuel Hemalurgy, though it can also fuel Allomancy. Not sure how that works.

[Pechvarry]

Is it possible for a Shard to fuel the human attributes that Kandra spike themselves with the same way they can fuel allomancy? If so, harmony could essentially have given him the "blessing of might" power by enhancing his human strength for a short time.

I like this.

[name_here]

Ruin can probably fuel Hemalurgy, though it can also fuel Allomancy. Not sure how that works.

All Shards can fuel all systems. Ruin is best at fueling Hemalurgical Allomancy, and apparently fueling another Shard's system expends power in a way they prefer to avoid.

[Ari]

Ruin can probably fuel Hemalurgy, though it can also fuel Allomancy. Not sure how that works.

We know they can both fuel Allomancy and Feruchemy, with Preservation being stronger at fueling Allomancy, and Ruin being stronger at fueling any abilities granted through spikes. It's reasonable to assume that Ruin could also fuel basic human abilities granted through spikes if he had wanted to, for instance supercharging a Kandra blessing.

What we don't know is whether it's possible for Preservation to fuel the basic human attributes he granted to people on Scadrial when they're not spiked, and thus whether Harmony could have simply fueled Wax whether or not he was spiked by something with a useful Hemalurgic charge.

[Commander Spoonface]

We know they can both fuel Allomancy and Feruchemy, with Preservation being stronger at fueling Allomancy, and Ruin being stronger at fueling any abilities granted through spikes. It's reasonable to assume that Ruin could also fuel basic human abilities granted through spikes if he had wanted to, for instance supercharging a Kandra blessing.

What we don't know is whether it's possible for Preservation to fuel the basic human attributes he granted to people on Scadrial when they're not spiked, and thus whether Harmony could have simply fueled Wax whether or not he was spiked by something with a useful Hemalurgic charge.

If Harmony could fuel the basic attributes of the unspiked, then there would be very little reason for such importance being placed on Wax's earring, nor for Brandon to state the earring had some sort of Hemalurgic charge.

[Eric]

The heart is not the only bind point you can use for theft, though. There are numerous points, which is part of how you control what you steal.

But it is the only one mentioned for the creation of the Inquisitor spikes, even if it isn't the only one possible. (Which I thought I remembered, but can't find a direct reference for.)

[fyodor]

If Harmony could fuel the basic attributes of the unspiked, then there would be very little reason for such importance being placed on Wax's earring, nor for Brandon to state the earring had some sort of Hemalurgic charge.

There seems to be a difference between would happens automatically-humans utilizing the passive powers of the gods and what they can intervene to do. If Rashek can use Preservation's power to turn people into Mistwraiths, if Sazed can turn Koloss into normal creatures, it would seem that Sazed could make Wax stronger/more resilient.

Sanderson said the following about the post-reuinification mists.

"Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy all work as they once did. However, now they are more directly affected by the presence or absence of the mists, which will slowly return to the world but not be of the extent they once were. (The mists are now an extent of Sazed's power, and where they roam, he is better able to influence things. There will also be two kinds of mists.) ....

It would seem that "influencing" things could refer to bolstering Wax's physical abilities.

I assume that the "two kinds of mists" refer to Ruin and Preservation mists.

[Arcanist Lupus]

I assume that the "two kinds of mists" refer to Ruin and Preservation mists.

Either that or Sazed mists and natural mists.

[ReaderAt2046]

"Natural" mists are called fog. The point comes up a couple of times when Saze is discussing whether the mists are coming during the day in WoA.

[Ari]

If Harmony could fuel the basic attributes of the unspiked, then there would be very little reason for such importance being placed on Wax's earring, nor for Brandon to state the earring had some sort of Hemalurgic charge.

I have to disagree with this. The earring could indicate a different allomantic ability, or even be made from a Blessing that had been removed from the Koloss when Sazed changed them. (Sazed would have done something with all of those unused spikes, given that he could only communicate with people who had been hemalurgically spiked... although whether he made them into earrings or used them to wake new Kandra is up for debate for now)

I don't disagree the earring is a Hemalurgic spike, (how else does he hear back from Harmony?) but it's possible that that spike doesn't grant the ability to burn pewter, and it may be possible that Harmony didn't need to fuel Pewter to cause a burst of strength for Wax.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I also strongly recommend to you all the effects of adrenaline, and good old-fashioned heroic resolve.

Just because there is magic doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to get a second wind naturally.

[Ari]

I also strongly recommend to you all the effects of adrenaline, and good old-fashioned heroic resolve.

Just because there is magic doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to get a second wind naturally.

The narrative pretty heavily implies that this is too sudden to be second wind AFAIR. (I haven't re-read Alloy of Law yet, so I don't remember it as well as the other books.)

Edited December 27, 2011 by Ari

[Aiken Frost]

I also strongly recommend to you all the effects of adrenaline, and good old-fashioned heroic resolve.

Just because there is magic doesn't mean it's impossible for someone to get a second wind naturally.

This, x1000.

Every story with magic that shows a hero that uses sheer resolve and determination to solve his problems get bonus points with me. For what I remember, all Harmony did was talk to Wax and provide his weapons back to him. The rest could be just an adrenaline rush and heroics, as Deus Ex Biotica sugested.

[Shardbearer]

I'm of the opinion that it was the mists fueling this. The earlobe is a bindpoint for allomantic bronze, and while it's possible that you can also bind allomantic pewter there I think it is unlikely.

[Aether]

I am sorry to necro this Thread, but if Wax's ear-ring gives him Allomantic powers, then would it let him burn Bronze and not Pewter? From what I remember, the binding points were very specific to what power you would receive, and the ear is for Seeking abilities (as Vin got from hers), not Thug.

[Kurkistan]

Hemalurgy has always been shown to be devilishly complicated, and Brandon RAFO'ing the question suggests that he thought it was a valid question to be asking.

 

If I had asked "Is Wax secretly a surgebinder?" or something else that was simply impossible given what the fandom has already been told in-book, Brandon would have just said no.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Aether]

The Coppermind might not be the most accurate source, but it does seem to coincide with what I remember from the books:

At its core, it involves precise stabbing of a hemalurgic spike in a person's vital organ, stealing abilities, then specific placement in one of two to three hundred "bind points" in the recipient's body.

His earring seems likely to be of Steel Inquisitor spike, but according to the chart, it would have had to be placed in his shoulder to give him the proposed effect, I also find it unlikely that there are several binding points for each stolen ability:

If a spike is placed in the wrong location it can have unforeseen effects, such as killing the recipient or possibly not granting any power at all.

All-in-all, it just seem to directly contradict what we know from the books, whatever his RAFO might suggest.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Aether

[Shardlet]

Well, that makes a lot of assumptions.  That assumes that the chart is comprehensive and complete (which it is clearly not), that each bindpoint is limited to only once hemalurgic configuration (which I doubt), and that either both earlobes are hemalurgically identical (could be but not necessarily) or that Vin and Wax had the same ear pierced (which I do not know).