manaheim

hmmm... no comments? Weird. I found the piece really entertaining and immediately engaging. My only comment was a total nitpick, which is that carbonara sauce is not really a "red sauce". Maybe you're thinking marinara? Thanks for the read.

Trying to get more review time in up here on RE, but I'm still slow. I think you have an interesting piece here, but I think you need to grab us sooner and cut out a lot of "extra" stuff to punch it up. This first paragraph made my eyes glaze over a bit. It was happy sunny joyous and festive. Ok, so where's my interest? What's the conflict? Why should I care? If the sun is shining and everything is awesome, then we don't have a story. You have a lot of adjectives. This is something I'm learning more about. Back when I started I had people say this to me and I was like "but adjectives describe things!" so I figured I need to have at least SOME. And some is fine... but you should work very hard to avoid them when you can. Try to find words that sum up both your action or noun AND your adjective in one shot. This, btw, will also help you with the show vs. tell thing. I suggest reading through this and looking at each sentence and asking yourself "Does the reader need this? Does this support what I'm trying to accomplish?" Anytime you say to yourself something along the lines of "Well, no, but I love this!", cut it. Also, try to think of your piece as an argument. What point are you trying to make? Where are you trying to bring the reader, and how far do they have to go from where they are now to where they need to be? Does your piece start from where the reader begins and smoothly build them up to the point where your statement hits home?

The forum changed my profanity to "storming". That took me a second. I was like "What the hell? When did I start writing like Brandon?" lol

So... to address some of the complaints about Paul, I ran back to Chapter three (Paul explaining to Candace she has to kill people) and tried to lace in a chance for Paul to explain himself. I'd love to know how this works for people (it's still rough, mind you)...

Super helpful as always, Robinski. Thanks! On the fear of flying, it was foreshadowed a couple of times, but it's been a while since you've read that. I actually often wonder about the convenience of it as a plot mechanism, but so far you're the first to call it out. :-) I'll definitely do a re-read and look for inconsistencies in the responses and whatnot. I have ground my teeth over the pashmina thing a bit... maybe I'll just say a "drape of white cloth" or something like that. I'll also consider trying to turn the dial up on the corporate America thing... I fear it when I do that, as usually I find I have to dial most things DOWN. On the alpha read... I can't actually do that quite yet, mainly because I'm re-working the relationship of Candace and Seth, so the way it stands now chapters 9-24 or whatever are inconsistent with the changes I've made in 1-8. At the rate I'm going, it'll take at least a few months to finish this editing pass. After which, maybe I can send it along. You probably won't see anything new from me for quite a while. lol Thanks again!

No worries at all, man.

Thanks, Andy. Actually, I was thinking today about how a number of you had commented that my writing was good and easy to read.... kinda made me think "Hey wait... I totally skipped that... and that's sorta huge." What you say on the audience is food for thought. I definitely have had both hot and cold reactions to this... and in truth, when I first set out to write it, I was like "Uh, I'm gonna have to get a pen name because I'm going to be stoned in the streets if this ever gets published." Well, we'll see. I'm mulling over next steps, and in the meantime, I'm grinding through the chapters cleaning it up. Thanks again!

Mandamon... Please don't give me license to get harsh. That's a baaaaaaaad idea. Thanks for making me laugh. Robinski... I oversimplified my comments. I felt compelled ALSO because I value the time you've spent and I very much want to do whatever I can to pay it back in kind. (same goes for everyone on here.) And I was being a little unfair when I said that was the ONLY reason I kept reading. Sorry. I was a little tired when I posted that. Sorry the remarks weren't more helpful. I'm going to go to bed now. :/

Hi Robinski. Being perfectly honest, I only managed to read to the end of this chapter because I felt compelled to do so because of all the time you have spent sharing your thoughts with me on my work. Yes, the setting was nice, and yes we get some sense of the character, but it was just so much description and such that I found myself zoning out repeatedly while reading it. Some of this is just that there isn't a lot happening... she walks to work, she passes some people on the way, she does some work, she gets changed, she does some other work. Then finally we get a little action/activity when she talks to Benham... that part is pretty interesting, but then we flip over to Benham and he starts describing things some more. Some of this is also that there is a fair bit of passive voice in the work... or at least passive description. "Ahma started passing a straggling line of farm workers..." She started doing it? Why not "She walked past a line of farm workers"? The last part of the problem, I think, is that it seems like much of the description isn't giving me anything more than description. I'm not getting a sense of Ahma's feelings for many of these things, nor does much of it seem to move the story further. In the end, I honestly feel like I could cut out 75% of the text here and have roughly what I have now... but quicker. Try mixing in some dialogue. Try getting in some more action. Read each sentence and ask yourself: "Do I need this information to further plot or character?" "Is this sentence showing us at least two things?" I'm sorry. I know this is probably harsh, but I wanted to give you my honest reaction here.

Thanks, Mandamon. Yes, this has really been invaluable, and as much as I wince when I open the link to writing excuses, I know it's all going to be useful information. I usually have to go away from it for a while and think about it before I go "Yeah, you know, they're probably right." lol Anyway, yes, super helpful. Thank you.

Hey Andy. I haven't read the other comments yet, so this should be interesting. It's written really well and flows easily. A couple minor issues that I've flagged in my comments below, but really trivial stuff ... to the point of me feeling embarrassed for even mentioning them... but I had so little else to call out. As far as the story... interesting, I guess, but I'm a little weirded out by a corrupted King Arthur. I've seen probably a dozen interpretations of him, the worst of which being the UK serial they did some years back, but never where he was so corrupted. (and yes, I fully get the pot-kettle-black thing here... my rendition of Heaven was far from usual) I also have a little bit of a hard time reading anything about the Camelot characters without my mind reeling through every interpretation, every person who has ever played a part, etc. Since you've gone the route you have, it seems likely that you're covering new ground, but it's in a field so heavily travelled that it's hard to make that ground feel truly unique. At around page 4 I also felt myself wondering what the real conflict was. Obviously Arthur spurned Mordred, but that seemed a little thin. Then eventually we determine the blade is corrupting him. Okay, but I didn't get the sense that was ever resolved. The end of the story was confusing for me. It seems Caradoc stoof up to Arthur and died, but the last paragraps almost read like a letter to someone or something, and in the end I don't feel like we resolved the issue of the blade corrupting Arthur or anything related to it. So those are my general thoughts. Some specifics... "Hidden behind a pillar in the corner of the great hall, I looked out at my father and his knights sat in their bright heraldry at the Round Table." Seems an off word or something here. "But I donned my none the less" I assume you meant "mine". "I though about the way his expression changed " I assume you want "thought". "'Enough!' I turned my back on her. 'You cursed my father when you gave him that sword. It is up to me to save him.'" Seems awfully bold for him to be mouthing off to her when in the last scene with her, he was in awe of her power. Caradoc seemed pretty casual around the Lady of the Lake. The ending of the story really confused me.

Oh, mandamon... I meant to mention... You commented on her saying "You were both there". Based on some great suggestions I received, I went back and had both Paul and Michael at the Coffee Shop in the first chapter. They each utter one sentence, which Candace hears but swears she must be hearing things. This was my making it so the first chapter had just a hint of the fantastic in it, which it was lacking before. Because of this, I had to have her recognize the voices at some point, because there's no way she wouldn't.

Thanks, Andy. Taking the time to catch up like this was really nice of you.

Thanks very much for the comments, Andy. Really appreciate it. BTW, was perusing your list of published works the other day when you posted the link. Very impressive and very cool.

Sure, Shiver. Whatever works best and easiest for you, and thanks for taking the time! By the way, if any of you who have been reading are interested in reading the full thing, I'd be happy to send it along. Someone asked me this once, I think... I think it was Robinski??

Thanks for the comments, guys! So I've been sort of avoiding giving "the reason" behind this because I didn't want to predispose anyone... AND because if it doesn't stand without my explanation, then it may not stand at all. That said... (mind you this is intended as an explanation- not as an excuse. I hear what you all are saying and appreciate the frank feedback) Heaven, and the people in it, are basically supposed to be an example of corporate America. Your boss is some weird guy who doesn't make a ton of sense, doesn't give you a ton of information, claims his orders come from somewhere higher- "so sorry about that, not much I can do", etc. You struggle with insane tasks- some of which cause you to do thing to other people that completely defy everything you were raised to believe as far as fairness, treating other people the way you would want to be treated, etc. etc. etc. etc. That's why everyone in Heaven is the way they are. As far as Paul, specifically is concerned... he's been doing this 1200 years. If you asked him why he's acting this way (and maybe Candace should), he would say "I'm two thousand years old, and have been doing this for 1200 of them... after a while, no matter how horrible it is, it just becomes mechanical". [praraphrasing] Most people who read this love Paul, but I have had 2-3 who HATE him. There seems to be no in-between. Very polarized. I love him, personally. All of this is very interesting. I wonder how much of it comes down to our individual personalities. I dunno. I lack the writing skills or the psychology degree to pick it apart. I think at this point I'm going to stop posting these up here, because while the feedback is wonderful, it's clear that certain elements of the story are burrs under the saddle for some folks, and many of those I cannot change without making it "not the book I intended". At the end of the day, as much as I know these things have been teeth-grinding points, they're pretty much exactly what I was shooting for... So, either I did a REALLY good job, and no one will want to read it because everyone is an cremhole or really really annoying... OR... I did a terrible job and need to bin this and try something a little less weird. There is no doubt this book is pretty weird. I'm curious to hear Robinski's reaction, since I know he didn't utterly hate anyone up to this point, so I hope he'll still post his comments despite my surrendering. Again... I really can't thank you all enough. I've really appreciated all your feedback, and hopefully my next attempt won't drive you all bonkers. lol Thanks again!

Two chapters this week since they're a little shorter. I hope that's okay. Thanks for reading, and Happy Monday!

Oo let me know if you figure that out.

Real life happens.

Yeah, I've heard that too... but one of the frequent guests on WE had said that he had a 63K novel or something, and his conclusion was that no one wanted a 63K novel from a new writer. :-/ I'm sure there's no magic formula. I just have it in my head that 75K is a nice, safe, number. Not too short, not too long. Not that I'd pad the novel, but having an actual GOOD reason to add a few thousand words wouldn't be a bad thing. Not that it matters anyway. lol. Like I'm gonna sell it?! lol

Later on in my story Candace comments about a baseball hat with sea turtles stitched into it. That's totally me making reference to my wife. These little indulgences are fun, and odds are no one will get them except the people who know you and know you well, so... meh. Screw it. Glad my comments were helpful. Sorry they were so late. I've started up a new client and two new contracts in the past couple weeks, so I'm crazy full-out at work during the week. Fortunately, it usually is dead quiet on weekends.

Some folks have suggested something similar, though I've struggled with how to make it interesting... frankly, the one of her in church stealing stuff... that one could be VERY amusing to play with. It would also give me another 3000-5000 words in the story, which would be good because I think it's a LITTLE short at 73K. Damnit. lol Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to mull this over.

Yay. Finally got to read this! I really enjoyed this, though I did have one major problem... and that was it felt WAY too easy that the guy put up a minor quibble about being forced to be a host, and then sort of shrugged his shoulders and did it anyway. Especially where this was clearly not his job. I felt like a more human reaction would be to fight like a wildman, and pretty much only give in to doing it if absolutely forced. (Perhaps Warren steps in here.) Then, I would expect him to be looking for EVERY opportunity to down some coffee, and there would be an almost continual struggle to keep him from doing that. To me, that sets up a much more believable conflict, and also would add a lot of interest to the story. Imagine how hard it would be to keep someone from getting their hands on caffeine? I also had an issue with the change of scenery in the conference room in the latter part of the story, but I'll let you read those comments down below. Like others, it felt a little quick. I think that is part of what plays into my concerns about his acceptance of the problem, and the conflict between him and the alien is nearly as brief, and him managing to vomit the thing out felt equally too quick and easy. I bet much of my concerns would be fixed by just allowing us to see a longer run of many of the issues you are dealing with. I still loved the story, those are the major points where I got hung up. Some specific comments below: --------- "Thea Canning peered at me across her glasses. The British ambassador in Herrje was used to arguing with alien species , not her own staff." The 'arguing with alien species' bit was so cool. It gave me so much about the setting with very little effot. This kind of subtle, effective, writing is the kind of thing we all strive for, and you pull it off so effortlessly. --------- ‘So open wide and swallow the Veng emissary.’ ‘This isn’t fair!’ Even I was embarrassed by my petulance. Minor point here, but this threw me for a moment because of the break in the line. I assumed the boss was speaking on 'This isn't fair!', but that obviously would be a little weird. --------- "I gave Canning one last hopeless, pleading look, then tipped my head back and dropped the Veng into my mouth . " I found it pretty surprising that he whined about this and then just did it. I would NEVER have done it, and I would have been far worse in my complaints. I’d have told her to ram it and left. Somehow it feels too easy that this went this way. --------- ", then almost vomited as it wriggled down my throat and into my belly ." This might be too specific. It raised the question (to me) of how the thing deals with stomach acid. You may have a reason why it can, but it might be best not to make the reader ask it unless you want to explain it. --------- "No idea.’ I reached on instinct for the coffee pot in the middle of the table, then remembered the sacrifices I was making. That one stung right now . " Because I didn’t feel like he fought very hard, I find it hard to swallow the things he is not doing as “sacrifices”. They more feel to me like he’s a wuss and needs to stand up for himself. --------- "Canning, as well as my boss , was a smart lady who could read between the lines ." For a moment, I thought you were implying that Canning was someone other than her boss. On re-read I get it, but it threw me. Also... If she can read between the lines and his assistant is being openly concerned for him, I would think she would have already picked up on the personal interest. Possibly the character is not putting this together, but … "– carefully avoiding any trace of caffeine " Every time this comes up I feel more like you need to sell me harder on his giving up in the beginning. --------- "but the thought of losing self-will mid-wank was just too embarrassing ." I want to say this is whiny or too passive. I was expecting more of a “Oh no way. This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules that.” Kind of thing. Might just be the character, and it probably fits into his earlier too-easy acceptance of this, but I had a hard time with it. --------- "The digits on the inside of my contact lens " Nice setting element here. --------- ‘Can I shower first?’ ‘She called you Mister Atticus.’ ‘You call me Mister Atticus.’ ‘But I think it’s a nice name.’ This was great, and beautifully foreshadowed so I caught all the implications flying around. --------- "When I got to that bleak, minimalist room , the ambassador was stood by the window, looking out across the skyline of Herrje. It was a spectacularly eclectic sight, human skyscrapers standing amidst the vaulted arches of the shoji sector , low groundling domes running up against the battered blocks of the k’kiri markets. I might get frustrated at this place, angry even, but I never got bored." This is a SEVERELY different setting than we had previously. Before I imagined the dark, oppressive conference room... no visibility outside... just looking back on his reflection. It was such a wonderful setting for the oppressive, trapped nature of his predicament. It seems like the predicament hasn't improved, and yet the setting is now bright, expansive and open. Also, the bleak statement you make doesn't fit in with the rest of the description ... for me, anyway. --------- "My stomach sank with me down into a chair. " I see what you’re trying here and I like it, but I don’t think it quite worked. My literal mind said “Well, of course it did. As did, his chest, his legs, his head…” --------- "‘Maybe they don’t.’ It was a dark idea, but I was in a dark place ," This would work so much better if he was literally in a dark place. --------- "‘How sexually active are you Atticus?’ He looked up from the readout with a grin. " I would reverse the action and the spoken words here, as I didn’t realize it was him speaking until the second part. --------- "Someone was having a great time, and they were using my body to do it. " Awesome. Loved this. --------- "‘Separation from the hive mind took away all its pleasure,’ " I got the impression he could read it’s emotions and not it’s specific thoughts. This strikes me as a specific thought.

And I'm looking forward to reading that ^. I have Ch5 to submit of my book if there is room, but happy to delay since I've been submitting weekly. Whatever works..

Robinsky- reading through in more detail. Thanks for taking me to task on some things. Candace is supposed to be judgmental, stubborn and a bit of a snob. It comes out a lot, such as in her comments about his pointless job. However, I do occasionally take it a little too far and flirt with the reader disliking her, and you've flagged that for me, which is great. I'll tone those down a bit. Also... the Ryan character in this book is based off of someone I know... who is a bit of an idiot and has frustrated me greatly over the years. I think that my frustration with him has come through here a bit. lol Good point on the revenge thing. I actually think if I take out just that one line on her sounding vengeful that it will tone it down a bit and I might slip it through. I was being a little ham-fisted because I'm trying to give the reader something they don't have all the detail on. I'll also look back and see if I can foreshadow it a little more. She does make a couple comments before now, but I think I need to evaluate bringing a bit more of it in. I reworked the unimaginable wealth (I just took out unimaginable... Candace steals a lot... I'm pretty sure she can imagine it. Just more of me being purple, I think.) I also reworked the alarms line. Great idea on the portal vs. barrier... funny how much of a difference that is, though I used "entrance". Basically, I hit a lot of the thing you flags and tweaked them. Mandamon... A lot of your flags are things that are questions we either haven't answered... or won't. I guess time will tell if these things frustrate you enough to eventually put the book down or not. :/ In my original write-up, a lot of your questions here WERE answered but it made the book seriously info-dumpy. IIRC, you complained about the chapters with Paul being a little long? Imagine if I also explained all the stuff you were asking about. (it was painful) So I very much appreciate you flagging them and I've copied all of these things into my notes to watch and see how your reaction develops. I went back to double check on a couple of your questions. On her corporeal/semi-corporeal state... we do explain this in Ch3, but maybe it wasn't clear enough. I'll revisit. On her being a bad girl... probably a similar thing. It's explained, but again.. maybe not enough. Thanks again, everyone! I've got my work cut out for me.