Tempus

Ah yes, I saw that as well. Infographics, charts, and data analysis are awesome. I'm assuming you saw it on reddit?

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Random trivia question: Did Devotion or Dominion splinter into eighty parts?

Alright, got a chunk of time to write my response, finally. I have a number of issues with this theory, which I will attempt to enumerate below, in no particular order. I'll only be addressing Part I. First Issue: The surges are connected to the Orders/Essences The basic premise of your theory is based on the Knights Radiant Chart. In the table of ten essences, each surge is connected to the two corresponding essence that embodies the order of Knights Radiant that they are associated with. Thus, each Surge is associated with two Essences. This, however, doesn't seem to be true. I maintain the surges are not associated with Essences directly. There are a few things of note here. The first is, Surgebinders can absorb Stormlight from any gemstone to use with their Surge. A minor point, but as gemstones are directly connected in the table of Essences, it's relevant. The more major point is regarding Fabrials. Fabrials directly apply surges via gemstones. However, the type of gemstone is irrelevant for the Surge used; instead, it modifies the effect. Soulcasting Fabrials, for example, can only transform things when the slotted gemstone matches the essence of the desired result. Indeed, accidental Soulcasting such as Shallan's first instance seems to produce the Essence associated directly with the gemstone on the table of Essences - this may even be where the 'Essence' originates from in terms of in-world knowledge. So notably, we see examples of specific essence locked relationships that can access any Surge, and no in-text support for the attachment of two Essences to a Surge in the fashion of the Knights Radiant Chart. So what does Tallow have to do with Transformation? Nothing at all. You are imputing a causal relationship here, that just doesn't seem to exist. The Surges are not reflections of the Essences as far as I can tell. I have brown hair, and brown is the colour of mud, but that doesn't mean I am made of mud. Or even hair. Hairmud man! Worst superpower ever. Second Issue: Too much meddling, not enough reason In your theory, Tanavast makes a few key changes. Firstly, he 'adds' two Essences to Surgebinding completely. This has the side effect of CREATING two completely new Surges, according to you. Secondly, he flips an entire set of four Surges and reorders them. Thirdly, the derived Surges as you propose are shuffled around - Cohesion and Gravitation are the only two Surges that retain their 'proper' associations. The rest are scattered with honestly zero pattern. So, Tanavast skewed the system by making thirteen different massive changes. Many of which have no particular reason for them (I'm not buying into the purely speculative overpowered thing). Our only other example of a Shard modifying the system beyond it's normal parameters to accommodate something would be Allomancy, where Atium/Malatium were replacing Cadmium/Bendalloy. This was simple - a one step substitution, of two metals with Temporal effects for two others with Temporal effects. It's unclear whether the substitution even made Cadmium/Bendalloy Allomantically inert, or simply made Atium/Malatium mistings en lieu of Cadmium/Bendalloy ones (Mistborns could potentially burn em' all). In essence, the change was simple, straightforward, rational, and limited. And this is what we're dealing with. The books are written by an author, Brandon, who looks at things logically, and only deviates when he has a reason to do so. The changes you propose are overly complex and inelegant, and generally do not seem to be designed with a concrete rationale in mind. Third Issue: Thirty Systems The last big issue I have here is that there are thirty systems of magic, grouped into three groups of ten (presumably). We've seen charts for at least two of these groups of ten. In your theory, Tanavast modifies Surgebinding to include two new essences/surges. First off, one of those you directly relate to Cultivation. So was Cultivation involved with the meddling too? Apparently so. Secondly, if Surgebinding originally had eight surges, why are there thirty systems now? Did Honor and Cultivation also modify the other systems to include new things? So not just one group of ten, but all three? Does that include Voidbinding? Assuming the purple chart is a Voidbinding chart, it mirrors the Knight Radiant chart surges exactly. Did Honor change those too? Does he have power over Voidbinding? And if he changed those, why are Fabrial surges still independent of the gemstones used or the essences produced, as noted up at the top? Yet there would be ten surges in that system as well, to fill out the thirty. It simply doesn't match up. Conclusion: I believe that the basic premise of your theory, that the Essences are somehow causative of the Surges, or directly related to them in a dependent fashion, is mistaken and has no support. Conversely support exists for them being independent, in the known examples of Fabrials. Also, the modifications you propose to the system do not seem to have an elegant and simple rationale, nor do they seem to match other existing world conditions in the other magic systems, which is generally incongruent with Brandon's writing style. So I just can't dig this theory.

Looks like an error Kurk, I see at least one more there too. Proven/disproven is difficult to measure, sometimes the core point is one or the other, and the side points are not, or vice versa. perhaps I should remove that measure all together

Well, if we're talking about foundational theories, irrespective of age... The Principle of Intent is a no brainer, Everything has Three Aspects is important but needs updating. Nepene's Collective Unconsciousness is one to consider, Splinters have their own Intent by Mad_Scientist is the first instance of this and is something that has become both more certain and more important. Kurk's Form Theories are definitely important, but I'm not sure which to present. Visualization of Realmatics by Krelian/Kurk comes to mind as an accessible way of presenting it, but the post itself is a large quote. KChan's Devotion, Dominion, and Magic on Sel is the definitive Selish theory. Skaa's A code monkey's thoughts on Realmatic Theory is a unique perspective on the topic that is both sensical, intriguing, and is something a lot of readers might be able to identify with. Aether's The Effects of Squirearchy is pertinent to the ending of Words of Radiance and the upcoming Stormlight books, and is something most people don't consider. As for my own theories, Investiture as a Spiritual Radiation is not a fully developed theory, but it's the best simple overview of Investiture as a term that there is on the Cosmere boards in one place - I've read the vast majority of it, so I can vouch for that. Measuring the chronology of the Cosmere by technology is probably not too important, but it is cool and I made a pretty chart, and people love to discuss tech levels and the various interpretations we can have on em'. There were only nine Desolations is my premiere Roshar theory. It is probably going to be wrong, but it makes so much sense that I'll be disappointed when it is. My recent three part Shardic Number Series (which was linked above by Joe) is nicely formatted, and covers something people talk about a lot, but is also rather long, haha. I'll stop pimping my theories at that maybe, though Zahel has good Breath is a theory which addresses the idea of how Vasher uses Stormlight that everyone was wondering about... Okay, stopping for real. Lastly, FTL on Scadrial is a hot and unusual topic that interests many people, that we've got quite a few theories floating around for. Pick a couple or ask for an overview, would make for a good discussion.

Thanks! Still have the Stormlight Archive and Radiance boards to cover, but it's feeling pretty awesome at the moment.

Well, excluding my own theories, which are certainly incredibly awesome and amazing, and probably deserve International awards, I'd like to recommend... Rhythms in the Cosmere, a theory about music and Investiture and a nice list of examples, with a focus on Parshendi. It's by Terisen, who joined very recently, but who is very impressive in their theories and responses to other theories. The Listeners are the Pre-Shattering Native Inhabitants of Roshar, a theory that that the Parshendi predate humanity on Roshar, by NutiketAiel. Relevant to WoR and a solid theory with a good discussion in general. Fabrials (Everyone's Got Them!), a theory about Investiture Technologies by Moogle. A good theory, but requires familiarity with other theories so not necessarily the best choice to begin with. Physics and the Cosmere is a great technical discussion and back and forth on just what the title says, by FirstSelector. It's a little dense, but very interesting. Magic Fuel, while the original post is not particularly long or well cited, it's discussing what I think might be one of the most important correlations and aspects of Investiture that we've overlooked as a community, and I fully intend to come back to this again with more theories in the future.

What criteria are you looking for in particular, Chaos? I have a small list of theories that I can conveniently recommend. Craft? Plausibility? Popularity? Bizarreness? Scientific? Fanciful? Inspiring? Important? Are you only looking for recentish theories (past week or two, or post WoR), or anytime is good? I'd be glad to throw some out there.

As stated, I don't believe they are necessarily directly correlated, only that the mythos stemmed from that beginning. Get three or four stories of people who have met Heralds who were broken, the opposite of what they should be, and people would naturally fill in the blanks to extend over all ten. This is in fact what we are doing.

I've been of the secret opinion that the mythos of the Ten Fools revolves around how the Herald's have warped their personalities into 'broken' versions following the centuries after breaking the Oathpact. While the identity of the Heralds may not be known, people met and discovered them in the past, and over the course of those 4500 years a mythology sprang from that seed of truth.

Back from my vacation, got a couple hours to work on it. Finished off the whole Cosmere boards, another 256~ theories (Excepting theories posted in the last ten days or so). Now up to 747 theories. PLANE POWER. So I've now updated the Index, the Hall of Fame, and the Stats Page. I've seen the rise of Moogle, Isomere, and watched Chaos climb higher. I've seen the flux of bad theories about Hoid spawned after WoR release. Generally all sorts of goodies. The Hall of Fame is getting quite crowded. It's now 33 entries long. I'm considering chopping off the bottom bits, upping the score threshold to 20, and the quantity to 8. This would chop off 9 and 12 people respectively, though. Notably, Nepene and Isomere would lose out on the quantity list. Also of interest may be the changes in the statistics. Topic proliferation increased by about 25%, showing a shift to wider discussions. In terms of quality, Gold increased 2 points, Silver dropped four points, Bronze increased one point, and Normal increased one point. So a marginal shift towards more polarization - good theorists are making better theories, and casual theorists are doing about the same as ever. The theorist middle class is shrinking a bit. Location wise, Cosmere saw a big growth, as it should. Roshar was also well-represented on the Cosmere boards. A few notables to Sel, Nalthis, Ashyn, Yolen, and Taldain. Scadrial had the lowest proportional representation on the Cosmere boards, possibly because the Mistborn boards are still quite active. Category wise, Cosmere boards showed a shift away from Character and Plot theories, and a shift towards World and Realmatic. Can't imagine why that is! Generally, a good batch! My script also offers significantly more topic/quality data, so I'm probably going to run it on all previously scraped threads and cross-examine it to improve the results (and possibly allow for a better categorization of topics).

Hi NutiketAiel, good to see you again. I want to bring back the original post topic - if spren transforms are similar to states of shardic materials, then what could be causing the vinelike apparitions?

We don't know when the first Desolation was. My theory suggests 9000 years ago, but it could be anywhere from that to 100,000 years ago.

Hey Skaa, fun writeup, wish I could write a proper response here. Two things I do want to say. Pulp and Sinew are clearly connected to Life. The 'original' chart makes more sense, but it doesn't flow elegantly to the known version like Allomancy did. There are too many shifts and rearrangements and imbalances. In short, even were your premise true, it doesn't seem like it should end up in the current system.

Hey Joe, nice theory. A few things. Firstly, you say 'first Desolation', but that is mistaken. The last Desolation was the one about 4500 years ago. All Desolations occurred prior to that. Secondly, the gaps between known first appearances of Shards are hundreds or more often thousands of years, and humans (most Shardholders) can't live that long. This theory could still be possible, but you'll need a more compressed timeframe, or some rationale for that.

Many investitures display significant amounts of mind enhancement to accompany the effects of Investiture. Most notably on Scadrial is Atium, which literally expands your mind drastically to allow it to process the precog information. Steel/Iron also seem to have some minor mental expansion effects that are notable, among others. Off world, both Breath and Stormlight show dramatic expanded mental effects to go along with their magic ones.

The timeline here on Nazh's trips is suspect... Why was an updated map needed, when was it made, and when was the first one made?

Look to the heraldic charts you found. Perhaps the relation ships are equally symbolic yet not directly connected.

Has anyone discussed having the rider outside of a bubble? Okay, so we are assuming that we can make speed bubbles anchor to something else than the planet. So, we a single spaceship, bigger than the bubble, and make sure it counts as being within the multiplied bubble space cognitively. Then, the passengers sit on top. Things are either in or out. Spaceship is in, passengers are out. Spaceship moves really fast (relatively) thanks to time dilation effects, but the passengers don't get affected by the dilation and end up old. I'm getting more and more sure I read this somewhere already, probably in one of Kurk's threads.

Halve the volume, double the pressure. Note that halving the dimensions of a container reduces it by a factor of eight, not two, because volume is cubed. If you could reduce ten hours of Cadmium dilation into one second, all other variables being equal, you should gain 36000 times the normal time dilation. This is what he's getting at. Let's number crunch! And... I can't get the info I need here. Well, for a vehicle travelling 100 km/s in a bubble, you'd need a time dilation of 1 079 252 850 times normal speed. If someone could find an estimate of how much dilation (as a multiplier) a normal cadmium bubble gives, and divide that number by it, then divide that number by 60, it would take that many minutes of Cadmium burning compressed into one second to reach equivalence with the speed of light. Edit: Under a random assumption that a normal bubble dilates time by fifteen, and that you could chain a metric cremton of Nicrosil users, you would need an Allomancer capable of burning the bubble metal for 832.75 consecutive days without need for more metal for this theory to work.

The vinelike appearance could have a similar root cause.

Skaa: I have always assumed that recognition of the heightenings was based on the fact that auras brighten colour, and heightenings increase colour perception. Weiry: that's something I haven't considered before concerning aspect patterns. Definitely need to think on it a bit.

Hey, some tips: - You probably don't need that many Reserved spots, the maximum post length is actually quite long. And we don't know that much about Hemalurgy yet. - Bring some stuff to the table. Start us off with facts and quotes you can find, use the books, use the Coppermind, use Theoryland. Read some Hemalurgy threads around here, my Theory Index has a bunch listed. Link them, bring in their quotes and points in summary. Information is like money, you gotta give a little to get a little. Best of luck, and Cheers!

The spiritual realm does govern connections. Could we suggest that the Parshendi are connected as a chorus on the spiritual, act on the Physical, and the music is expressed in or through the Cognitive? It's notable that Parshendi forms are modified through spren bonds, that spren are cognitive beings, and that spren modify the rhythms they can attune.