Tempus

Since the relationship is by nature cognitive, it probably depends on how the bubble user views the objects in the bubble more than anything else. If it were a matter of simple perception of relative speeds, then you should certainly not burn when examining the relationship between movement of spatial objects like the planet to yourself - the entire world would suddenly be bubbled. More likely, it's about the user's idea of what is in the bubble and what is not. With trains, we can call it what is known as a categorical entity. The train is actually a category of a collection of things (train cars), which we identify cognitively as a train. In reality here, the train car is the object inside the bubble. But the Allomancer has made a category error, and has identified a part of a thing with its whole, causing it to be within the bubble. Brainwave. Bubbles are actually majority cognitive - what is in or out of the bubble is determined by the entity's position in the Cognitive Realm, and not the physical. The bubble itself is actually inside the Cognitive Realm too. This explains why light is not affected - light does not seem to have a corresponding Cognitive entity that matches its position (as seen with backwards shadows, and Jasnah's description of Shadesmar landscape). Thus, light is not affected by bubbles because the bubbles are not truly encompassing/affecting physical things. That's not bad handwavium.

This saves me enormous amounts of time and thought. Thanks Kurk!

I think you missed what he was implying. Allomancy is the most rigid in the sense that it is highly restricted - a person can only ever use the portion of Allomancy/Feruchemy they are genetically inclined to, and those specific powers are in fact very narrow. If you say 'hemalurgy', I will punch you. Surgebinding is gained through actions, and you can even multi-bond in rare instances. Many Surges are much more versatile than Allomantic abilities as well - especially since the vast majority of Allomancers are Mistings. Systems like AonDor, or Forgery, or Breath are very versatile - they allow you a large amount of flexibility in your actions and results. Allomantic and Feruchemic abilities tends to do one narrow thing that can't really be used in any other way. If you can change your weight, ALL you can do is change your weight and power Moogle's favourite hamster wheel generators. A soulcaster has a very wide range of transformations they can effect. I'll contest this as well. We know Sel is high in Investiture (like Roshar) and Scadrial is low. We also know that Aons are boosted by a very large margin by the Amplifier of the City of Elantris. I really can't see any way you can say that they are matching concentrations: even without the amplifier Aons should be notably stronger. With it, it is vastly more concentrated.

Sure. Might take a day or two before I get around to it.

Sure, but.... I can really only think of one shag guy, on a shag carpet:

Here is a picture of Elsa Stealing a Steel Heart, you better like it, or elsa.

I'm afraid that, given my profile picture, I can do nothing other than join the Caton. I may not be spiked, but my Feline abilities are considerable and useful. And in order to get the freshest ink for my stamps, I have also caught many tasty squid, which I offer as tribute.

I'd like to join the Caton of Inquistion. I'm in. No wait, actually, I'm out. Changed my mind, I'm in.

Indeed

With all systems of magic, we find that the focus of an Investiture effect (aka magic stuff) seems to require not a thing, but instead the pattern of a thing. Examples of this include Metals, Commands, Aons, Forging, it isn't the things, but the pattern that makes the magic do what it does (as opposed to something else). With the Fabrial settings, the Stormlight patterns seen in Navani's drawing are clearly related the fashion in which the setting holds the gemstone, as seen in fig. |\\|\\\\||||. Just kidding, I mean the drawing in the upper left. It is very probable that the function of the gem is determined by a collusion of the type of polestone (notably its colour, cut, and purity) and the setting (which filters the Stormlight into a pattern by causing shadows, as seen in the drawing). Given that Stormlight can be infused into a gemstone in a Highstorm, I am not even entirely certain what role the spren are playing in Fabrials. That said, it seems unlikely that it is the metal that plays no role - its rarity makes it an unusual choice to be used as a material for anything that would not specifically require it. We relatively little other metal, even in arms and armour where metal has great advantages in material strength. Soulcasting is certainly doable, but given the indications at the camps regarding the worth of the gemhearts and yet how little soulcasting they purchase, soulcasting is not a cheap endeavour. It seems unlikely that they would use metal that consistently without a reason for it. One possibility that occurs is that Stormlight tends to permeate things - it could simply be possibly that metal (which is much more dense than most other materials) is one of the few easy to work materials that does not allow Stormlight to permeate it, and thus casts a shadow, which is what generates the Stormlight pattern. I am as yet unclear about what role spren play - I have not studied Fabrials in any depth at all, and my knowledge is pitiful compared to skaa here. I don't have any evidence so far that anything is imprinted on the metal, however. The image shows the pattern to be generated by shadows of the setting, and from other Cosmere systems the pattern of a thing is usually the prime consideration in determining what it does. And we don't have any other Cosmere examples of things being 'imprinted' onto materials other than Hemalurgy at this time. It would be extremely freaky if the metals act as hemalurgic spikes, stealing the necessary Innate Investiture from the soul of the first spren in the setting.

I'll second the Realmatic Attributes. I'll also put forth the theory and discussion in EMTrevor's thread, regarding The Physiology of Holding Stormlight. An excellent, high level discussion with professional knowledge involved.

Not so unlikely, Green. If you get Worldbuilders who are interested into creating magic systems that are logically viable (in a sort of pseudo-science way), then waveforms are a likely place to stop. The place to insert your magic should be at the most fundamental part you can grasp, and preferably the level below the most fundamental level we have a complete grasp upon. At the moment, the idea that all things in the Universe are actually waves (wave/particle duality and quantum physics) is that area, and it has been for quite some time. It seems natural to me that people whose life is to create these complex systems should naturally decide for their magical intervention to occur at this level. Certainly, Sanderson, Tolkien and Weis are known for their elaborate and complex worldbuilding. And though each has specialities (Tolkien Lanugage, Weis Tabletops, and Brandon Religion), they are all learned and intelligent people.

Just wanted to show off the profile pictures I made for @Moogle. Click to enlarge.

Where x is the function of Investiture and a is the volumetric measure of the Investiture in standard notation, the balance of the Realmatic composition of the Manifestation of Investiture can be described as baffling.

I've always thought they looked a little animalistic, or perhaps like hands. One issue with Chasm Fiends is that they have fourteen legs, and I don't see anything fourteen things on here. That said, this might belong more in the Stormlight/Words of Radiance Forums.

I much prefer the former. Quite nice.

I'm aware of many of those issues, Chaos. My idea was to re-utilize the core CSS of the current theme, and simply change a few images. By using CSS variables to take care of the colours, it would be reasonably simple to update - just use the variable for any new CSS additions, push to all themes, and it should propagate correctly. If you'd like me to help with glyphs, CSS, or background images, I'd be happy to. I bet Awesomeness would dig making some site graphics as well, if you want more helpers. Feel free to let me know if I can assist.

I know Invision has the power to allow users to choose alternate site skins. I was wondering if the admins would be interested in enabling alternate skins to allow users to choose from a wider variety? I went ahead and spent about 15 making three mockups, just a quick copy-paste and some colour changes. The first is based on Mistborn YA cover, the second on the Shai art for Emperor's Soul, and the last on the recently defunct Stormblessed.com's images (which I thought was very pretty). In addition, we could probably update the blurry stars background on the current theme to something a little crisper, but that's beside the issue. Mockups below, along with the original for direct comparison. Again, not actual submissions, just very quick and dirty mockups showing what could be doable.

Well, your original ideas of Forms and what I think makes sense and have internalized (and converted from my own study of Platonic Forms) are fairly different, and I'm not good at keeping track of these things. But indeed, let us give Chaos back his thread, and await his replies.

Well, under Forms, someone with 0 identity or memories or Cognitive aspect or whatnot who got regrowthed would approach the general human Form as closely as possible - make for themselves a generic version, so to speak. It's a curious idea, and moreso for being potentially possible under Feruchemy. --- I suppose it's possible to throw out Forms altogether, but what I find notable is that no one in Warbreaker seems to mention any sorts of awakening that make visible copies of the Awakener. Like, if you Awakened a bunch of Jello, would it attempt to form into you? We don't see instances of that, or hear about it, so I'm leaning towards 'the general idea of a human'. This is why I bring in Forms.

I had some thought that without their memories they would have no Cognitive Identity, and should thus not reflect what they believed to be their own previous appearance. Rereading, I mangled that whole paragraph a little. What I was basically trying to say is, Breaths have an attachment to the Identity of their owner, and there should be a Form for 'humanity', the ideal human of a sort, that influences Breath in part. Because unlike other Investitures, when you put Breath into an object, it does not then belong to the object, it still belongs to you. So there becomes a sort of connection between you and the object, bridged by that Investiture, which could in part explain why the Awakened Object wants to take Human Form if it can - it is trying to emulate the Form (humanity) of the Identity attached to the Investiture driving it.

Absolutely. We have WoB that planets like Roshar and Sel are highly Invested, while Scadrial is rather low in Investiture. Perhaps, but I think here you need to break out the Forms. There are a few facts to consider - Breath that is used for Awakening is still attached to the identity of the Awakener. Breath that is transferred to another human is no longer attached to your identity. Breath put into other living creatures is also not attached to your Identity. So there is a distinct attachment between your personal Identity and Breath, and also Breath and the Form of Endowment, and thus we can draw a parallel here that Investiture that belongs or originates from a thing is likely also connected to the Form of a thing. So it seems likely that it is not only connected to the Form of Endowment, but also the Form of the Identity of the owner. This suggests why the Returned look as they did in real life except with some enhancements, despite having no conscious memory of their previous selves.

If you hover your mouse on top of the word 'Chatbox', a small x will appear to the right. Click that x, and the chatbox will disappear, and stay disappeared until you unclick it. You can do this with any element in the sidebar, or any major forum category. You can also do it for sigs that bother you.

I like the way this goes. Considering magic systems as composed of different balances of Physical, Spiritual, and Cognitive is a flexible way of considering them, and helps the magic feel less rigid and restrained and more elegant. We know that Investiture transcends the Realms, but has more influence in different parts, so it makes sense that manifestations of Investiture would follow suite. To cover the generalities, besides the massive positives, there are a few things I don't agree with. Your math background has convinced you to examine the Investitures on a relative scale - dividing them up into percentiles between the three realms. I think this is an ineffective way of approach the issue - certain Investitures clearly have much more Cognitive presence (such as Surgebinding) than other manifestations of Investiture, yet that doesn't necessarily mean they have less presences on other Realms. I would suggest instead that absolute values would provide a better comparison, showing that Investitures with a presence of many Cognitive elements and strong Cognitive effects (like Surgebinding and Forgery) have similar manifestations in the given realm without having the other Realms be 'sacrificed' in the visualization, leading to misconceptions. Another issue is how to define the attributes of an Investiture that signify its potential balance between Realms. For example, Feruchemy, by your measure, is strongly Physical. Yet its manifestations are actually more concerned with the Spiritual and the Cognitive than the Physical. And its actualization doesn't seem physical in nature at all - it seems more Spiritual than anything (especially so if you consider that the 'laws' of physics are in many ways Spiritual in nature). Yet this doesn't discount your own rationale as to its presence in the Physical. Should all these be counted? Are there certain key indicators we need to look for? Or should we view it more as a flow than simply a presence? Another thing that I want to bring up is the aspects of a thing tend to be interdependent. A hemalurgic spike not only rips the Spiritual away, it damages the bond between the Physical and the Cognitive. The Cognitive identity of a person can directly impact their Physical presences, and changing their Spiritual connections can impact the other aspects in other Realms, etc, etc. Given this, I wonder if some things should be considered more as balanced mechanics as well. For a specific example, you speak of genetics in Allomancy as being a physical trait, but it is known that there are three sets of DNA, and the one governing Allomantic powers is the Spiritual. Genetics are properly passed on in the physical, but it is in the Spiritual that we see the Investiture manifest - should we not consider that both then? Or primarily Spiritual? Those are my comments - I can't provide any more specific comments because doing so requires your theory to more directly analyze mechanics of systems. We'll have to see how this extrapolates before we can take a look. Smaller nitpicking list: • You left this sentence unfinished • You state that Awakening absorbing colour is physical in nature, but it is clearly not. It drains colour like a Shardblade cut, from an area. It doesn't drain lightwaves, or pigment, or some weird substance. It drains the property of being coloured. • Awakened objects emulate humans, which is a very good indication that the Breath is strongly tied to the Cognitive/Spiritual Identity of its user, and like other Cognitively sticky objects we've seen (that is a stick pun), it attempts to mimic or retain its original form. • Many systems consume byproducts, something that has been under discussion lately. Some people are calling it fuel, some reactants, etc. Metal for Allomancy, Warmth for Surgebinding, Colour for Awakening, possibly other unpublished systems might consume things when used as well. The reactant could be indicative of the Realmatic balance of a system - metal being very physical, warmth being Cognitive (explicit in Feruchemy), and colour being apparently Spiritual.

Okay, Joe, removed that one. I'm not adding the other one to the list yet, but I can run my script for you. It got a total of 44.41 points - 12.76 for length, 21.78 for supporting quotes, and 9.86 for formatting. That puts you in Gold with room to spare. Remember, these are just measures of craft, not plausibility. It's not a reflection of how likely the theory is, or whether I like it or anything, it's how well put together the theory is.