Aleksiel

Then why wouldn't Brandon confirm Nale has his Blade since we know he's awesome? May be he was awesome for another reason. I'm not going to say he could be someone's squire, but there could be another reason for what Lift thought she was. Nale running too quickly hardly supports the theory since Taln caught the dart without inhaling stormlight. And one is with the Herald who went back to get it.

Or may be it was another Herald. Yes, Nale is the likeliest as of now, but it''s not canon. I saw WoB Nale's eyes didn't change when he killed Ym and he had summoned his Blade then. This could be argued both in favor and against the odds of Nalan having his Honorblade. Are his eyes permanently the same color for whatever reason? Do Heralds eyes change when the respectful Blade is summoned or does this only affect others holding the Blade? I'd go with anyone summoning Honorbalde has his/her eyes change to the matching color since surgebinding abilities apply to anyone. But may be Nale just has pale amber (or whatever the right color) eyes? We don't know. Brandon has left his eye color out of any description of Nale we were given. Nobody has described Nale's Blade as the masterwork it's supposed to be. We know Yezrien's lost its ornaments, but we can only guess why. There aren't enough facts to determine whether or not Nale has his Blade.

Vargo thinks nothing about a missing Honorblade in his chapters. Not that Brandon didn't already have characters hide things in their PoV, but it would make for a really annoying trend... I doubt Vargo was telling the truth, otherwise Andro likely wouldn't have 'thought they were dead' and commented on T being more than average smart after Szeth was gone. While Taln definitely is supposed to have had his Blade at least upon arrival, it's not canon Nale has his Blade. edit: grammar

I don't think any ruler sees robbing their palace as minor crime, I expect the punishment to be more severe than stealing from the average citizen. The punishment for trespassing the palace when the Holy Conclave is in session is execution, no excuses; the administrator didn't have legal grounds for disagreeing with Nalan based on their conversation. Gawx was guilty, no chance to prove him innocent, so he was supposed to be executed. The procedure for punishing Gawx was not followed and that was the problem, not the punishment itself. Obtaining the documents was a formality that wasn't followed and that's the part law the minion broke.

I suppose you are right, the example wasn't quite adapted to Roshar's reality, but I didn't think of a better way to translate my idea. Surgebinding is not illegal, but there probably aren't any regulations on something that hasn't been around for millenniums. Why shouldn't a constable in any country investigate any particular group so long as the law doesn't prohibit it? Nale is not punishing anyone on the accusation of being a surgebinder, he's particularly investigating surgebinders and executes punishments for their crimes in accordance to the local law. Nalan has made himself and his minions a specialized force for fighting surgebinders' crimes, which doesn't seem to be illegal. Kal would probably welcome a police group focused on investigating lighteyes. I am not under the impression Nale feels any malice towards surgebinders, he's doing what he sees best withing his legal power. I don't understand the point you want to make here. Nale has no legal power as a Herald to my knowledge and illegally killing is against what he's supposed to represent.

He went after Lift, his minions got Gawx. I doubt even Nale can catch every criminal, so he missed the adults. Or more likely Lift was priority since in his mind she is a danger to the whole world and a few lowly thieves aren't Nale's main concern. He could always deal with them later, but Lift's been escaping him for some time. He couldn't split himself in two halves to follow both her and the others. I suppose you can look at it as having specialization. Some police officers go after thieves, others fight corruption, third deal with serial killers. Nale investigates surgbinders. Whether you call it bias or not is up to you.

I don't read Nale as someone who would give himself a leeway or ever exploit a hole in a law, but I suppose we'll wait and see about that. I agree with Twenty@20 that the minion's crime wasn't attempted murder. Don't judge what happened based on your country's law or personal view, but think about what we learned in the chapter about Azir. Any trespasser during a session of the Holy Conclave can be executed, however some papers have to be filled first. So the minion is not guilty of attempted murder, but administrative violation according to the law. I know, it doesn't seem right to us, but Roshar is a very different world with very different cultures. I would say it depends. After all, police officers aren't allowed on investigations that directly affect them, their relatives, partners, family, and friends; so there are some precautions taken to assure one won't be biased. On any other cases if a police officer has his/her personal feelings under control and acts according to the law without violating the rights of the suspect/criminal, then it makes no difference. How can you protect the law and the innocent without having at least some form of a grudge against certain criminals? I don't think it's possible. But feeling malice doesn't equal acting on it.

No, it doesn't mean you are allowed to enter so long as you pay a fine; the punishment for breaking the law not to enter is a fine. You make it sound like you buy a ticket... Everyone is capable of breaking a law, however Nale will not knowingly/purposely break any law. Accepting the consequences of breaking the law doesn't make you lawful.

Didn't Kaladin and Shallan tell Dalinar the First Ideal? I believe they did. That's what I was referring to. As for Ren, I think you're misunderstanding me. I don't question Ren using surges or bonding Glys. I find Ren's decision to write numbers on Dalinar's wall when Dalinar's on his own and in a vision to be odd, if we assume Ren was in control. Ren didn't try to talk his father into taking any action regarding the Parshendi or the everstorm. So what was he trying to achieve?

I didn't mean literally cheating, but Kal didn't find the Words by himself. Both Shallan and Ren had in-world WoK available to them, which is arguably the foundation of the Radiants' philosophy and conveys very similar ideas to the First Oath. While we can't know for sure about Shallan (her parents were obviously more aware than the average citizen), Ren could have very well found the Words on his own. Actually, I'm surprised Dalinar didn't, he basically has the whole book memorized. It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks Ren used Illumination already, I haven't seen anyone discussing the possibility. You're right, he lost control. But I assumed he never was in control when in vision of the future to begin with... Well, if he wasn't, someone would have caught him, no way he always got lucky. How could Ren's writing always match Dalinar's visions if Ren wasn't in control? It's more likely he had some sort of control, however I hadn't given it much thought. But that also doesn't feel right. What, Ren decided to write numbers on Dalinar's wall, while also believing the foresight was a curse and it was all in his head? Why would he willingly do that? The whole story is very weird.

Without someone telling him the Oath. Like how Shallan must have found the words on her own in her childhood unlike Kal who was told by Teft, which is arguably cheating. I believe we'll know all Oaths by the end of SA. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. So far we've only missed one truth from Shallan, but she probably still doesn't remember it any way; unknown number of Oaths from Jasnah, but she's getting a book, so we might get to see it in flashbacks; and lastly arguably an Oath from Ren, who's also getting flashbacks, so there. We could learn other Ideals from non-PoV characters when they talk with a main Radiant or something. Overall, not learning all Oaths by the end of the series will be a huge disappointment for me. It's not explicitly said, but it's implied Ren did it. He starts writing numbers right before the everstorm hit. Dalinar on the other hand didn't have any such experiences during WoK, and there's no reason to believe something changed in WoR for him. And the writings always appeared when Dalinar was on his own. How Ren got such a fine timing when he didn't seem to be in control is beyond me. I assume he used Illumination to sneak between guards unnoticed, but there's no textual evidence unless you count nobody seeing Ren write.

But the first Oath doesn't seem to do anything flashy... How cool would it be if Ren has said two Ideals in the same book on his without help? Yeah, ok, I'm not buying it either... It makes more sense to for us to witness his second Oath like we did with Lift. That was actually the only part I meant for you as we are in agreement for the rest. So what if it slows it down? WoR takes months of time. But why and how would a Blade slow down a forming Nahel bond? So far as WoB go, one has to say an Ideal or the bond evaporates in time on its own. Saying the first Ideal doesn't need Ren to be aware of his spren, especially after hearing in-world WoK only Almighty knows how many times.

Shallan isn't Alethi, so you could say her accent is showing when she pronounces Sadeas differently than Kal, Dalinar or Adolin.

It's possible to bond a spren while having a Shardblade, Dalinar did it. I don't understand the 'Glys fighting a zombie' part of your post, what do you mean by it? Why would Glys be fighting the dead spren? The two bonds are different, there shouldn't be a competition between the spren. If you think having a Blade makes a Nahel bond impossible, then why are you arguing Ren bonded Glys after the Blade?

Why exactly do you bring a Shardbearer in the discussion? Yes, healing his eyesight is after bonding the Blade. What does Adolin have to do with Ren bonding Glys? Adolin already has a bond with his Blade. It doesn't matter if the Blade's spren is attracted to him or not (well, this just sounds plain wrong ), it can't go anywhere else either way. @maxal: Based to Dalinar's experience a Blade starts screaming after the second oath is spoken. He didn't touch his Blade between saying the first and the second, so we can't say which one makes the difference. Kaladin also didn't have contact with a Blade between the first two, so we don't know for sure. Back on whether or not Glys is pre-Blade: Dalinar felt uncomfortable with his new Blade in WoR, but he's been bonding with the Stormfather before/since WoK. Ren also felt uncomfortable taking a Blade on the beginning of WoR, however I'm inclined to believe it didn't scream else he'd have a more startled Kal-like reaction upon the first contact. So I believe there already was a pre-Oaths Nahel bond between Ren and Glys. Unconscious breathing in stormlight happens is extreme situations: Kal with the bridge, Dalinar and the chasmfiend, Jasnah after being thrown into Shadesmar in the prelude. It's very unlikely so far as I'm concerned for Ren to have casually breathed in stormlight on an insufferably rainy, yet normal, day and accidentally healed his eyesight. Purposely trying to breath in stormlight take time to get it right without instructions and means one is already aware somethings going on. Ren thought it was 'all in his head' (his word at the end of WoR), so Glys didn't have the memories to explain more to him before. We don't know if Glys had any help coming to Roshar or not. If he didn't (like Syl), then the bond must have been forming for months before the end of WoR, somewhere at the end of WoK if I recall the timeline well enough to estimate correctly half an year before the end of WoR is during WoK. Will check it later. Second case scenario: Glys like Wyndle had help. Then he would be able to recover his memories faster and should have known many things from the very beginning. However, we can only guess if Glys had help. If Ym's spren is TW's (which is the most popular take on his interlude), then I'd say no, nobody helped Glys and he's been around since the beginning of WoR.

Nah, I think it's good to get a new more serious topic as the other went in a more humorous direction. I brought it up for anyone who'd like to see it as well, about half the posts or so are on-topic and the rest is fun. I just re-read it (it's only 3 pages) and I can't say anyone was on spot, but there are some guess that are arguably close in meaning to what we saw in WoR.

There's an old thread about this. I wonder if anyone got an Ideal from WoR right, I haven't re-read it.

Yeah, I posted the same quote in the same post you quoted. Yet I phrased it as if there were only three, which wasn't my intention. I counted the Honorblades for first 10, spren surgebinding for the second 10 and assumed the last ten to go together again being Odium's or Cultivation's. If she created a magic system that is.

Oh, not the spoiler tags so soon after the boards were merged.... OP, please just put a warning for SA 3 spoilers in the title. The first chapter in available on Tor for anyone who's missed it.

Honestly, I have no idea when someone counts as a Lightweaver. Actually, if we take the five-Radiant-Oaths definition it gets even weirder. Or is someone a LW when they attract a Cryptic? Or say the first Ideal? We need canon on this... About the magic systems Do we count fabrials as a magic system or not? I guess... not? The Honorblades are from Honor, so they could be system 1. The second magic system could be the spren mimicking honor's, a bit weird I know, but spren are involved with fabrials, which are past of the magic systems. So the third could be Odium's. Or whatever Cultivation does... Does it even count as magic?

It can't be Tien or Elhokar for that matter (since him being proto-LW is another theory). source edit: I consider this WoB combined with the one about Kal meeting two LW to point towards a LW is Kaladin's past. My spheres are on Tarah. It's just a guess, she's been brought up in both books, yet we know close to nothing about her.

When you say someone is seeing things it implies those things are visible only to that person as in his mind, not real-life-solid things. Illumination includes all sorts of waves. Waves aren't only for illusions that everyone can see, else there wouldn't have been distinction between Illumination and its sub-surge Lightweaving. Note that Shallan also sees things - she drew the crew and possibly Shalash, which implies some distant use of Illumination, because Transformation clearly can't do this. She's the only one who saw that and she saw it her mind. Pretty much the same Ren could see certain things inside his mind. That's why he's the one who sees, otherwise it'd be for everyone, which makes the statement pointless again. Ren uses 'see' every time he speaks of his powers, it's unfounded to disregard it and consider it coincidence. He said he sees after Kaladin asked him what he did. So what Ren does is he sees however you choose to interpret it. There's no connection between his Oaths and the question he was asked; Kal gave for example Shallan weaving light and himself ridding the winds, no Ideals involved in the conversation, so I do not see grounds for your alternative explanation. Tanavast doesn't not use the word bad, he says forbidden. His second sentance is to clarify the previous one, thus making connection between the restriction of speaking about what is to come and the subjective future that depends on one's perspective. If they aren't connected, then he's throwing random sentences, which doesn't seem to be the case. He's breaking the restriction because he tries to predict the future - everstorm, champions, the Night of Sorrows, all these are predictions. He says he's trying to see the future, but it's like trying to see through broken glass. And he's telling all that to the reciever of the visions, clearly breaking the restriction of not speaking of what is to come. He has some limited ability to foresee, so just because he says he's seen the Recreanse doesn't necessarily mean it had happened when he said it. It could have been in the short-term future Honor could see. How could Kaladin possibly get a passive before the Nahel-bond?

What else could Ren possibly means if not his visions of the future? Not his eyesight for sure, that'd be retarded. Everyone sees in that meaning, so it's not worth mentioning. Here's what he says before the Everstorm hits: So if he didn't have some visual pictures, he wouldn't have used the verb 'see' and the next time he brings it up as his specialty, it's only logical to conclude he meant foresight. This is the full quote, because I want to consider the next sentence as well: It's forbidden to talk about the future that depends on one's perspective, not the foresight on its own and non-subjective things are probably allowed, too. May be during the times of the KR things were different. I don't think it's canon whether or not Honor recorded the visions pre or post Recreance. Tanavast himself seems to be breaking this restriction. It's interesting the sentence is in passive - he didn't forbid speaking about the future. Who then? May be it has something to do with Shardic intent? Curious quote indeed. However, it does not point towards Honor forbidding foresight or foresight being generally bad, which was your point in the previous post. Considering how TW were secretive and didn't talk about their plans, they don't sound like breaking such prohibition if it existed in the days of the KR. Actually, it even justifies their secretive nature. Syl says in a way she's always been with Kal, which I really don't know how to interpret or what to make of it. For now I prefer to go with Kal's spearman talent being natural, non-bond thing. Although he lost most of his fighting skills after Syl dies, which kind of favors fighting being his passive. However, what I meant as his passive after his second Oath is what Kal thought during the 4vs1 duel about being able to Blades without even looking, which could be related to pressure. Though it might not be passive, nay be he's getting better at using adhesion.

Ren himself said he sees when Kaladin asked him what's with the Truthwatchers' name. I never claimed growth and regrowth are time-based. What Progression will include is for us to see. Just because the church condemns foresight doesn't mean Honor did the same. In fact Tanavast said he's not good at seeing the future and Cultivation is better than him. He never said foresight is bad or forbidden.There's absolutely no reason for an Order (especially with a spren partly from Cultivation or even pure Cultivation) not to be able to see the future since that's kind of Cultivation's thing anyway. Shallan was advanced and abandoned her Oaths without disbonding Pattern like the Radiants of the past did when they lefr their spren as Blades. We don't know if her passive not going away is because Pattern was still around or something else. She still had the potential to revive him and kept the passive. Kaladin shows some signs of passive in WoR after the second Oath. Since getting a Blade is different for every Order, then passive could be as well. So it's entirely possible for Ym to not have been there yet.

Since Peter said the WoB might not be about Hoid, I'd say team Brandon doesn't mind the confusion. We don't really know who named the Order LW. Dustbringers were named by common people and those Radiants hated the name and preferred Releasers. Here's somewhat relevant Brandon quote So Lightweaving is the ability to make illusions in the Cosmere. therefor, since surges work pretty much the same for the Orders who use them (there's a WoB for this, will add source later), and Illumination allows illusions, then Ren must be able to use the surge and create Illusions, which will be also called Lightweaving. KR's LW may include some soul-aspect or whatever to their power of Lightweaving, which make it slightly different from what Hoid and others do, yet the name remains.