Aleksiel

For some reason I thought it alluded to eyes of blue and red story. It was an odd interlude even if we've heard of this character before.

I’m not sure how much my opinion contributes, but I thought it’s only fair to give you my two spheres on the subject after occasionally coming to see where the discussion is going. So here it is: I consider the love triangle resolved, just in an unsatisfying manner (particularly for Shalladin shippers in the meaning of how it was handled, not that they can’t handle their ship sinking). I think it’s either because it was a red herring all along or it’s just one of the middle book issues OB has, and not a sign there will be more on this. Tarah was mentioned in all three books and in OB we even got a flashback, verification Kaladin had feelings and considers the way they ended a mistake (even if you read it as how he handled it without anything else). All Syl’s remarks about relationships and Kaladin kind of sort of not really (see the paragraph above) entertaining the idea of Shallan as a partner plus his fears he’ll always be alone for me point in the direction Tarah will be reintroduced and the old fire ignited with Kaladin potentially fixing what he saw as a past mistake. Of course this is just my take on the matter. It’s a pleasure reading the well-thought posts all of you have written.

May be that's why Mraize wants to bring Sja-Anat to the GB so he can bond her... Imagine what a scary pair they would be

I agree. Lift being able to sneak on Odium and enter visions left by H seems premeditate even if she doesn't realize it. Sure, but OP's point here was C claimed Dalinar was the first she spoke to in centuries, so that's why I brought the timeline and not how she erased Dalinar's memory of herself.

C met Dalinar five and a half years ago and we don't know when Lift went there unless I'm mistaken, so there isn't a timeline issue if Lift went to the Valley after Dalinar.

People have good dreams, too, but I'll think some more on the quote. Lift is partly in the CR, which is closer to the SR, so it might influence her dreams somehow. It was important C did it and not NW, because NW's boons are permanent whereas C set his memory to return when the time was right and Dalinar didn't get a curse in my opinion. C said what she did was beyond what NW could do. I'd expect to see more of her, she has a plan set in motion to fight Odium and Lift's abilities seem fitting for a long game, thus I'd say there might more than one and even more than two characters C has interfered with.

At this point I'm inclined to think Lift is another part of Cultivations plan and just like Dalinar, her boon was given by C herself, so she may not necessarily have a curse like we're used to expect. Lift is a street urchin, who lost her mother young and who knows what sort of horrors she lived through, having nightmares and being afraid of dreaming can be explained naturally. She was able to walk into Dalinra's visions, which I still don't get how it happened, but I don't think the mechanism of dreams and visions is necessarily the same.

Isn't it too soon for this? But if we are comparing them, I second the previous opinion MB should be split into era 1 and era 2. My favorite would be MB era 1, however if I compare SA with MB era 2, them SA. Also, I think posting the poll here distorts the results, it would be better to have this topic in the general Cosmere section.

You forgot the [OB] prefix and I feel we already have a topic on the same subject - Mayalaran.

In my opinion killing baby Hitler wouldn't have changed much, there just would have been another figure to fill the role. Attributing all evil to him is a convenient oversimplification of a complex issue, but I go too much off topic, so I'll stop here. I don't see Gavinor fitting the role as nobody thought it would be great if he died. I think we haven't seen this yet, but if we have - my spheres would go to Jasnah deciding against killing Renarin. He sees the future, which is universally considered of the enemy and is bonded to a corrupt spren. This suggestion doesn't take the said death rattle literally, but they are metaphorical anyway.

I think it will be queen Fen. She organized the villagers in the vision Dalinar threw her into quite fast and well, too, even if she did sacrifice the mother. She's a good ruler from what we know and balances between factions skillfully.

Well, there are several and one of them specifically calls for no ship stuff as other topics about Shallan seem to revolve too much around the boys and turn into shipwars and we have threads for those, too. Yes, I decided on this name and direction of the thread as opposed to the 'disgust'. Also because my impression is we tend to focus more on the negative, including me, but there are still positive things to say about her. One can feel disgust with the character and celebrate other elements of her. In an ideal world those two threads would be one, but like with Shallan's personality they aren't.

There's already a thread about discussing Shallan in general. I didn't intend to divide us in teams, just thought we could use a positive one to shift a bit the focus.

According to the timeline Dalinar was born in 1120 and OB takes place in the year 1174, so that makes him 54 years old., which matches what I remember from WoK (that he's in his fifties). I don't think we should convert rosharian years to ours, but if we do he'd be less than 60 years old.

Based on Jasnah's insult to Amaram, pregnancy on Roshar is seven months and one year has 10 months if I remember correctly. (1 rosharian yesr=1.1 earth years if you rather use that measurement; month have more days there)

I imagine Jasnah as Lesley-Ann Brandt, she plays Mazikeen in Lucifer: two more in spoilers for length:

I see the difference. I just don't agree explaining this as applying modern standards to modern books is what makes it different. I also don't agree with the rest of your statement either - women are now warriors and Jasnah is king. I won't further draw the thread offtopic and will agree to disagree.

This is the only acceptable explanation why everyone genuinely believed him to be more honorable than Honor

To me it seems you are selectively applying the standard you initially pointed to. Sadeas was pretty happy to sacrifice thousands of men on the bridges. A character being happy about something doesn't make it great, and in general character's feelings are no substitute of our judgement on issues. Not all topics raised in the books will align with your, mine, anyone's perception of right and wrong. The series isn't meant to be morale guidance despite how well it presents controversial issues (which is another point if favor of the possibility of a baby).

Then why haven't you dropped the series because it contains slavery and a caste society? That goes against modern morale standards, too. If you had applied those for everything we've had so far, not just the possibility of Shallan having a baby any time soon, the sentence would have been catastrophic and you would have dropped the series before the end of WoK. I don't mean to be rude, I'm not sure if I succeeded. I respect if adding a baby is not your cup of tea, you say so yourself, just disagree with justifying this with modern day morale.

I wasn't. I pointed out what sounded as a fallacy. It's a Desolation, but people will still live their lives. Many will have children and some of them will be Radiants - women, men... It may not be Shallan, but I see no reason to not have Radiant parent, in fact I expect that. A fighting mother seems like twisting tropes the way Brandon likes to do. I don't apply modern standards to Roshar or any other non-modern setting. Well, at least give it a chance if it goes that way. No need to get worked up over something that hasn't happened yet.

Don't limit women to just one role. A woman can raise and child and do something else, too.

Yes, the combination between artistic talent and scientific affinity is very refreshing. I like how she chose natural history as her Calling. I think she'll make for an amazing world-hopper, may be create a gorgeous in-world Cosmere encyclopedia. I know we have Khriss for research and she has Nazh to draw, but still...

Alethi black doesn't completely dominate other haircolors, it just passes in the next generation, so unlike in our world there was no chance for Renarin or Adolin to be all blond. There are other characters with black and brown/red/blond. It doesn't mean there's a certain brown hair type that breeds true, at least not from what we know so far. I wonder if this topic deserves its own thread, but may be not... This is an interesting point and I honestly don't know. May be Jasnah would want them to have an heir as soon as possible just to be done with it, that's a practical approach, too, especially when there's a high chance of dying - it's a Desolation after all, and power vacuum can't be allowed.

We'll have to see, however Adolin's hair doesn't have the riran gold that breeds true, it was mentioned Evi was normal blond, so you I thought I'd mention my two cents on the 'how many hair colors' topic. Red hasn't been mentioned to breed true, only alethi black and riran gold, so I'd hazard they'll have black-red hair colored children. Anyway, I won't go too much off topic. They have performed the appropriate social rituals (to use Pattern's expression) and they are young and healthy, thus the only I see for Shallan to not be with child next book is if they decide it's not the time, which didn't come up in OB. I can't say what Brandon will choose, I pointed to Shallan wondering about their future children's hair as possible foreshadowing in favor of a baby. I don't label it as good or bad, just the way the plot is going in my opinion. I agree to disagree on this.