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Elbereth

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  1. Elbereth
    Long post upcoming. ...That's not how math works. Sorry about that, Kas. That's entirely my fault for not rechecking the rules. Why... Why would you say this? It doesn't make any sense to me. This applies to Stink, as well. Besides Scholars and arguably the leaders of each faction, Runners seem to me to be the best targets for eliminators. If, say, Maill was a Diagrammist, they might keep PMs up for a few cycles for manipulation purposes, but the good of PMs for villagers really outweighs that for eliminators in the end, I think. You're also garnering protection for a while, but you probably wouldn't have been targeted at all if you hadn't posted. I have thought of one other thing regarding this, though. Runners are going to be revealed eventually. There's no doubt about it. Since there's no group PMs and all PMs must include a Runner/Bondsmith, there really can't be much doubt about it. It's possible the Runners are partly posting on the chance (25% or so) that they'll contact an Eliminator first and promptly be killed before anyone can know their role. Though that's still not a very good explanation. One other thing for Runners- One way to tell if a Runner is a Bondsmith would be to ask what PM that Runner created each cycle. Thus either the Bondsmith couldn't use Adhesion at all, or would have to lie and potentially be caught. Thus, I suggest Runners not discuss their other PMs in general, to protect the Bondsmith. And I feel that everyone should protect the Bondsmith, just in case the alternate win con occurs. Since everyone else seems to understand Hellscythe's motivation by now (though their acceptance of it varies), I'll clear up this misunderstanding. As far as I can tell, Hellscythe's main motivation in placing a vote without explanation was to provoke a reaction which could then potentially reveal alignments. For instance, I suggested that he might be a Ghostblood looking to kill a Son of Honor, which implied that I was a Son of Honor defending my compatriot. (I can neither confirm nor deny this.)Also, Hellscythe is male. Since the GMs seem to have missed it, I'll ask this question again. Can an Elscaller choose what role the dead player will appear as, or is it random? Don't worry too much about it. My first game, I waited much longer than a cycle to post a vote. Of course, that was a LG, which is, well, longer, but still, if you need to take a cycle to get used to it, that's fine. As long as you keep posting your thoughts, of course. Those are just as important as your vote, in my view. I have included just such a list at the bottom of this post. I'll echo that. Just so you know, Creccio is male. Other thoughts: There has been some discussion of win condition, and I feel like several people have misconceptions about it. The secondary win condition is for a team to have more Knights Radiant than the other, when all Diagrammists are dead. After they die we don't just fight it out until all of the KRs are dead. If we kill all of the Diagrammists, the game ends, and we lose or win based on the current number of KRs on each side. There is the possibility of both factions winning if the number of KRs is equal, which sounds like a really good idea if we can pull it off. There are going to be so many broken links when this is merged. Seriously, there has been an epidemic of post-links. Also, Adavantos, I think it won't make much difference when the links to individual posts are broken. We can go back a couple of pages to find something if necessary. I'm not going to try to crack Creccio's code, because it's clearly not meant for me and because of the fact it's a code, which almost can't be cracked without prior information which I don't have. If it were a cipher, I'd be all over it, but not a code. Codes are annoying. But that's irrelevant. List of players who have not yet posted (time last online in gmt) (converted to MST because no one is in GMT (well, almost)) [Cycle 1 started at 4 PM GMT, 12/13 (9 AM MST, 12/13).] Honey Badger (1:58 AM, 12/14) (6:58 AM, 12/14) polkinghornbd (5:17 AM, 12/15) (9:17 PM, 12/14) Elkanah (3:40 AM, 12/15) (8:40 PM, 12/14) Starry Smite (5:42 AM, 12/15) (9:42 PM, 12/14) Mace Windu (3:32 AM, 12/15) (8:32 PM, 12/14) Burnt Spaghetti (1:15 AM, 12/15) (6:15 PM, 12/14) As you can see, everyone has been on since the cycle started, and I have personally seen both polking and Starry Smite viewing the thread. Anyone care to post?
  2. Elbereth
    Wait. Question. How was Burnt's death a Wounded Gazelle Gambit? Maybe my definition's just wrong or something, but I don't see that.
  3. Elbereth
    I don't have time to respond in full to this thread right now (I have another final in 10 minutes and I just caught up), but I did want to note to Adavantos that your vote tally is wrong. I took my vote off of Hellscythe a while ago.
  4. Elbereth
    After thinking about this last night, too many things don't make sense for Lopen to be a BioChromancer. Why didn't he target anyone last night? For that matter, why didn't he target me? Phatt, were you targeted? If I'd been targeted, we'd have still been lynching Clanky/Biggoron. Unless Lopen didn't target me deliberately to draw my attention away from Clanky/Biggoron...somehow.... My brain hurts. As it stands now, I think lynching Elkanah is a better choice than Lopen. I mean, it's still possible that Lopen's a traitor, but I don't think he's a BioChromancer, at least.
  5. Elbereth
    If you join the traitor team and there's still two others, why would the game end? There are currently nine players (including the HI). If we kill Elkanah, and the HI turns, there are then three eliminators and 5 loyals. Assuming I make a kill on a Loyal by mistake and the eliminators actually make a kill, there will be three eliminators and three loyals the next day. And if I'm remembering right, the HI doesn't count towards outnumbering the loyals if he's a traitor and vice versa, so the game would at least continue until the end of the next day. Or did I miss something? Okay, this is what seems most sensible to me: We lynch Lopen. If Lopen's good, I immediately kill Elkanah (and if I fail we'll lynch them the next day). We get a traitor that way. If he's bad, we've still gotten a traitor. ...Does anyone see any problems with that? Because I feel like there should be one, and I can't find it.
  6. Elbereth
    If a Diagrammist Surgeon blocked the lynch every time, it would literally take twice as long for their team to win. That seems inadvisable. And we wouldn't gain much information from the lynchee's death anyway, unless we manage to set up some sort of system with the Verstitalian Scholars. I agree that it's not a bad idea as a safety measure, though. Assuming double-tapping works, which I'm not at all certain about. Even so, I think we would learn more from a blocked lynch than from just killing that person.
  7. Elbereth
    Oooh! Me! Me! I like Ranger's Apprentice a lot. At least, some of them. A few of the books I'm not so fond of, particularly the third. But they're very good, and it's been far too long since I read them.
  8. Elbereth
    I mean, you were probably going to get protection anyway, given that you've been the most active of the "experienced players" in this game. At least for the first cycle or two. ...It would be interesting if all of the Surgeons/Edgedancers were new and just protected who their gut told them to, rather than using the meta to decide. I can't decide whether that would work out better or not.
  9. Elbereth
    I don't think it was wasted. I think attacking Biggoron was a good choice, from where I stood at the time. Actually, you're bringing up some points which make me think Lopen's good now. For instance, he mentioned in a PM that it didn't make sense that Burnt hadn't said Elkanah was a traitor, unless Elkanah was a traitor as well. If he were a traitor, I would think he would have thought of that and suggested it. It's possible that no one thought of it until after the cycle was done, but that seems less likely. ...On to Elkanah, then? I'm still not sure that's wise, but I no longer want to lynch Lopen. I guess. Why do eliminators have to be so good at being loyal?
  10. Elbereth
    There are several problems with this. First, you're assuming that the Surgeon is going to want to protect the lynched (which, 3 times out of 4, he/she won't). Even if a Diagrammist surgeon does exist, and protects the member about to be lynched, there'll be all the more suspicion cast on that person the next cycle. At that point it might be good to have the Cook kill along with the lynch. Though that does bring up a question for the GMs: Is there double-tapping in this game? That is, does the Surgeon/Progression protect from all attacks, or only one? Also, this basically makes the Cook useless. Both Cooks, if they don't have the sense to see the problems with this. Cooks should target whoever they think is suspicious, or alternatively inactives once the game gets a few cycles in. Technically, the rules did say that Diagrammists would be distributed randomly within each faction. On the other hand, if by chance both the Thaidakar and the Restares turned out to be Diagrammists, I do feel that the GMs would have stepped in and fixed that. Speaking from experience, while they are contributing without discussing, those summaries are also really storming useful sometimes. And I trust that Adavantos will have an actual discussion-post up by the end of this cycle. Then there's the list. I see no reason Maill would have to be a commander in order to put together a list. Just by RNG, he's likely to get half right. Even if he's a regular, he knows at least one other person's alignment along with his own, and though he might have put himself in the wrong list, he could have put his captain in the correct one. If he's a captain or commander, he'll get even more right, obviously, but the point isn't to be as accurate as possible. The point is to get people to claim an alignment, which has thus far been admirably successful. So I don't think we can draw any conclusions about Maill's position or alignment... which was basically the intention... Also, Hellscythe, although unwillingly. I understand why you placed the vote, though it still somewhat irritates me. Last question for the GMs: Do we have to green out our votes in the original post, or not? And if you wonder why I'm writing this when I said I'd be AFK for most of the rest of the cycle? Well, the answer is that I'm a very good procrastinator.
  11. Elbereth
    I'm not sure about lynching Elkanah. I think it might actually be really unwise, as the HI will almost certainly turn. The reason I'm caring about that is because while the HI doesn't count for outnumbering the traitors, it does give them another lynch vote, which is a problem Here's a thought I had. Burnt seemed far too willing to give herself up, don't you think? This kind of implies to me that there were multiple traitors left other than her before she died. It's possible there's only one, but I would guess there's still at least two out there. The other thing it could mean is that we weren't on the right track at all. If Clanky and Biggoron were really both traitors, or if even one of them was, I think Burnt would have put up more of a fight. So... Well, obviously, I'm not sure, but I think that Lopen is the most suspicious, given all of that. He doesn't have any proof of being uninvested, and he's the one who has basically been driving the debate since Adavantos died. I'm not sure if that even makes sense, but there it is.
  12. Elbereth
    Thank you for the prompt response. I'm going to be off for a while now. Before I go, responses in general: Hellscythe, why did you vote for Stink? Do you really suspect him of being a Diagrammist, or are you just trying to get yourself lynched? Or is there some other reason? I also agree that lynching a claimed Runner right off the bat sounds like a bad idea, regardless of alignment. It's my personal opinion that PMs are better for the Loyalists than the eliminators, in general. And it seems that's all I have time for. More thoughts in a few hours!
  13. Elbereth
    I could see that. I still think Surgeons can protect from lynches, because almost every other role has a Surgebinder equivalent which is exact, but I could be wrong. Looks like it's a question for the GMs, then.
  14. Elbereth
    I would guess yes, given that Progression is it's Surgebinder equivalent, and that does protect from the lynch. I'm not certain, though.
  15. Elbereth
    I guess that makes sense? I mean, maybe they forgot to role block you or something. I don't know.
  16. Elbereth
    I usually just default to "a couple hours south of the Bay Area", or alternatively "north of Big Sur. You know, the pretty place with lots of coast?" Most people nod in recognition to one of those.
  17. Elbereth
    So. First off, obviously I wasn't roleblocked last night. Lopen, Clanky, Biggoron, and I discussed, and basically the result was that I was going to target either Clanky or Biggoron without them knowing which. If they were loyal, they would naturally protect themselves. My logic for targeting Biggoron went thus: Scenario 1: Biggoron and Clanky are both loyal. They both target themselves, and whoever I target, I'm blocked. Scenario 2: One of them is loyal and the other is a traitor. Given that Biggoron was protected, and Clanky was scanned to be an Elantrian, so in this scenario they would probably both be Elantrians, and I would be blocked either way. Scenario 2: They're both traitors, and only one of them (Clanky) is an Elantrian. In that case, they would have to choose who I seemed more likely to target. From my perspective, at least, it seemed more likely that they'd protect Clanky, because Biggoron had been protected last time. Thus, if I targeted Biggoron and he was protected again, he would be more likely to be loyal than if I targeted Clanky. So it seems likely that Biggoron is loyal, although that doesn't mean he couldn't still be a traitor. ...And there was no traitor kill last night. Why would that be? No one's been inactive that I can remember.
  18. Elbereth
    Hellscythe? Care to explain your vote? I'd almost think you were a Ghostblood trying to kill the other faction, rather than just trying to kill the Diagrammists...
  19. Elbereth
    The reason I'm not explaining it right now is because it concerns a game still in progress, LG15, and it's bad form to talk about games that are still going on. If you look back at the signups, you'll see that I mentioned this before the game started, before I could have known what my role was. Basically, it concerns why my playstyle has changed, because I don't want to be lynched by players who are in both games and see that I'm acting very differently. Does that explain it? Oooh, that's an interesting idea. I would not be opposed to the Restares/Thaidakar doing so. Up to you, of course, but it could make this game a lot more interesting, at the very least.Potential problems with it: The Diagrammists (and everyone else) now know who either the Restares or the Thaidakar is, and thus can easily kill him/her, which could result in problems for that faction. The secondary win condition is a good deal harder to achieve, but at the same time easier because if you have a low-ranking Cook, that Cook can now kill only the other faction, rather than mostly randomly guessing.
  20. Elbereth
    When I said I thought Runners should reveal their roles, I kind of wanted others to weigh in before someone actually claimed. And also you really didn't need to claim your alignment as well. ...Too late now, I guess. This is a good point. At that point I was thinking about faction vs. faction, rather than everyone vs. Diagrammists, which was my mistake. This is also true, with the caveat that we may occasionally want to scan someone who was killed by the Diagrammists, for their role. So scanning them wouldn't be entirely useless.
  21. Elbereth
    Well, first, you're assuming that there's only one Scholar on each side, which doesn't seem necessarily true. Possible, of course, but it is an assumption that we should realize we're making.Second, here are a couple ideas about making them public. These are just off of the top of my head, and probably have several holes, but they're somewhere to start: 1) Obviously, if a Runner contacts a Scholar, the Runner can announce it to the thread (same with a Bondsmith). Runners aren't necessarily publicly known, but I see no harm in one Runner revealing to the thread in order to announce the Scholar's results. The Diagrammists might target him/her, but very possibly not. It depends on what their thoughts on PMs are. 2) Another option is for the Scholars themselves to publicly announce their results to the thread. Everyone wants the Scholars to survive, because otherwise no one has any idea who is dead. I mean, the Diagrammists will know whether the death was one of their faction, and at least the Restares or the Thaidakar will know the person's alignment, but practically no one will know their role, which is something that would be advantageous for most people to know. Of course, this could result in people redirecting the Scholar's target if they don't want someone else to know what role/alignment a particular person is, but I could still see it working. That brings up a question, actually. If a Lightweaver uses illumination on a Scholar and tries to get him/her to target someone still alive, what happens? I would guess that the Scholar either gets redirected to a random other dead player, or his/her powers do nothing. For an Artifabrian, who redirects actions onto himself, does the Scholar's action simply do nothing? I think that Clanky's idea for which Scholar should target who is better than Creccio's idea for votes, though both have problems. In particular, Elsecallers can change the appearance of any dead person for two cycles. If they know ahead of time who is going to be scanned, our information will be much less trustworthy. More questions: 1) Will the writeup reveal how people are killed? i.e. Will we know the difference between a Diagrammist kill and the Cook kill? 2) What happens to the command structure when someone dies? For example, if the Thaidakar/Restares dies, does one of the commanders step up to take their place, or is there just a gap there? If a commander/captain dies, do their underlings report to someone new? General thoughts: We know there is at least one Runner per faction. Runners, I recommend that the first PM you open is with your immediate superior. Hopefully, that superior will tell you their superior, so that you go up the chain until you're in contact with the Thaidakar, who can help direct y ou to people he/she wants to know more about. However, I don't know that this is the best advice, given that the Runners could be Diagrammists, so I'd appreciate others weighing in on this. Given that there is a role which can see one side of a PM, everyone who enters into a PM should not ever mention the name of the person whom they are PMing. This should be obvious, but I thought I'd mention it just in case. In a similar vein, don't say "between us Ghostbloods", or call the other person Captain/Commander/Thaidakar/Restares, even if you know that's what they are. Basically, since Kas can't say it, Practice PM safety! Edit: As you may notice, I'm trying a completely different playstyle than the previous game. There are reasons for that, which I don't want to explain right now. Also, I'll likely be AFK for most of the rest of the cycle, so don't expect another post as long as this (although it could happen), because I'm putting my effort into studying for my last three finals rather than this.
  22. Elbereth
    Wait, Mercury has water? Venus has water?
  23. Elbereth
    Common core... No. Just no. It's a terrible thing.
  24. Elbereth
    I'll join as Elba. This should be interesting... There's something I want to say but I'm going to wait until LG15's done to say it.
  25. Elbereth
    Okay, that makes sense to me. I'm not that convinced about Orlok, but I can accept that reasoning. Right, but did anyone announce that you were scanned until after he might have turned? The HI certainly didn't, and Lopen didn't until after Alfa died, I think. Right? Fair enough. Okay, then from my perspective he's not confirmed. Got it. So who are we killing today? I'd be fine with Elkanah, personally. Given that we know everyone's roles now (probably), it might be better to know if he's been a traitor for a while now or if he was loyal up until now. Speaking of which, who did you scan last night, Hellscythe? EDIT: Just realized it's night. I thought it was day. Ignore that last paragraph.
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