JesseQ

Perhaps Elhokar isn't quite the whiney incompetent ruler he seems. Maybe he is devious and cunning; perhaps complicit in Gavilar's death. Ahh... baseless speculation how I wish to be rid of you. Come forth March fourth.

I will stick with Adolin and Moash. Adolin is a clone of his father and the story doesn't necessarily need him; Sadaes will likely kill him "accidentally" in a duel. It would also provide an opportunity for the hapless and weak Renarin to surprise everyone (except Wit) and show what a truly capable heir he can be. Moash will die because he is Kaladin's only real friend out of the group and Kaladin tends to lose those to whom he is closest. Of course, I think an alternative to that theory is betrayal of some sort. Although, it would be great if they both made it to the end; doubtful but I'd welcome it. Szeth I believe will live simply for the fact that I have a feeling he will be the one to help Kaladin train in his windrunner abilities after their initial confrontation. I don't believe Dalinar or Jasnah will die yet. Amaran will live Sadaes will die.

Not really. It's sort of the opposite for me. In tWoK I was in a hurry to get back to the present to see Kaladin morph into superman so at times I felt myself wanting to skip over his backstory; I didn't and I'm glad I didn't but there was that urge. I wasn't as deeply invested in Shallan but she grew on me as things progressed. That said, with the one flashback we've seen I find myself really looking forward to her history. Also, while some seem to disagree with this I get the feeling that she doesn't want to just sit back and study. She almost seems to want to be a warrior and in my opinion I think you may have a latent badass with her given I believe she was responsible for either mother's death, the death of the guy who killed her mother or both of the people in that room. So I have a feeling you may get your action with her. And also she has a shardblade. I'm looking forward to her story.

You know Darnam, I sort of understand your frustration and actually agree with your premise but you’re not going to bludgeon your beliefs or feelings onto someone. I don’t really feel your passion regarding this topic deserved the down vote so I went ahead and cancelled that out but you should probably consider a different tactic for getting your point across. Now, since we agree I will defend our point of view. I think there is a tendency in our society to try to assign intellectual brilliance or philosophical innovation to ideas that are contrary to commonsense; as though commonsense were a device only for lowly simpletons. So an argument is made that yeah sure Amaram slaughtered defenseless men who had just helped prevent him from being slaughtered (while defenseless) then sold their squad leader into slavery… but let’s dig deeper before we make a final judgment as to his character. We don’t really know his motives so it might be all good… We may later be saying good call Amaram; good that you killed off those inconsequential darkeyes. Their culture and society may resolve to view his choice to cut them down as an honorable thing to do; it is a militaristic society after all. The problem I find with these types of philosophical meanderings is that they seem to be used as a consequence-free tool to downplay, excuse or even justify atrocities. I could probably write an essay on the greatness, the unique boldness and brilliance of Taravangian for his efforts and his research tactics. Hell, I could probably make a list of coherent arguments as to why he should have only used children for his experiments and do so in a way that suggests draining the life from those children (as opposed to random people off the street) is actually the morally correct course of action in their world. It would be complete nonsense (not to mention sadistic) but I could certainly frame it in a way that made it sound like I really believed it and that those who weren’t on board were incapable of thinking critically; refusing to see beyond their rigid perception of what is right versus wrong. You know, in the end there may be a greater good but the argument that arriving at that greater good could only be achieved through the betrayal and slaughter of your subordinates (to whom you owe your life) is absurd to me. The argument that his perceptions justify his actions is equally absurd. To me some of you are attempting to complicate black and white issues for the sake of arguing your brand of philosophy; which, frankly is a little weak despite its pretty packaging. Just don’t kill your unarmed subordinates after they save your life and we’ll be golden. Do I think he is beyond redemption? I don’t know; perhaps not, but for me at this point redemption would likely involve martyrdom. Not a fan of this guy.

Actually, I was basing that on the information in Coppermind concerning chronology; I should have said almost 500 years ago. I'm uncertain of where they pulled the information but it says the war of loss happened 700 EoS.

Good points, I didn't recall Syl's surprise. Well that theory's shot; guess it had quite a few holes to begin with.

Ok, I'm sure it has probably been discussed here at some point but can anyone tell me what occurred 1173 years ago? Was this the Recreance or maybe the beginning of the Hierocracy? I'm assuming the calender is based on some major event that took place in year one and the only major events I am aware of are the breaking of the oathpact which occurred 4500 years ago, the Day of Recreance, the rise of the Heirocracy and the fall of the heirocracy which apparently happened a little over 400 years prior to the events in tWoK. I'm mulling a theory regarding Rock's ability to see Syl but it is based on the calender kept by Horneaters which according to Peter is different than that kept by those in Eastern Roshar. If the major event that kicked off the Alethi's current calender was the Day of Recreance (which to me seems a little more recent than I had assumed) and we operate under the assumption that mankind's betrayal of the spren was this event, then perhaps the spren do not view the Horneaters as part of the mankind that betrayed them and maybe that is why the spren allow Rock to see them. Peter also mentioned in the same topic/different comment that some in other parts of Roshar still use the Era of Solitude calender (of which he made a point of explaing that it began 4500 years ago with the breaking of the oathpact). So perhaps we take the two comments together and arrive at the Horneaters using the EoS calender. If the Day of Recreance was not of significant importance to them they would have no motivation to restart their calendar. Ok, I will preemptively criticize my own theory by saying I doubt the Day of Recreance happened 1173 years ago but do you think there is some connection with the differing calenders and Rock's ability to see spren?

I think in the Starfall chapter Dalinar used windstance with the little poker thing and while the KRs were impressed with his skill, it seemed to indicate they were unfamiliar with his style. Perhaps there is some correlation though.

I think it would be pretty awesome if it was revealed that she is already surprisingly skillful with her sword. I like the idea of a woman with skills unbefitting societal proprieties. I guess we already see that in the assassin Jasnah hired but it would be nice to see it in a POV character. If we're looking for a scholarly POV character why not let it be a man since that too goes against decorum? I do like the idea of Adolin deciding to give her a lesson swordsmanship; but my preference would be that the encounter leads to a horrified Adolin highly embarrassed by the whooping he receives. I’m sure that is not going to happen but I would love something like that to occur. We already have reason to believe that there is a possibility of a certain degree of badassery when it comes to Shallan. She at least believes she killed her father and I’m not sure where I read it but I remember mention of her father comforting her as she observed a bunch of slain people (including her mother) surrounding her. Perhaps she killed them all. If so then she likely has some skill.

I don't know if I agree with you Feather. Not that I care about Kal's pigmentation but to me in the original version he almost looks Native American. In the final version he sort of resembles someone of southern European decent; Italian or Spanish or Greek. So I'm not sure if he gets less white. Ultimately, I could care less but I really like the fact that he looks his age now; major improvements overall.

I think you made a good point if not a little blunt; which I really have no issue with. If I could figure out how to upvote you on my Kindle I would.

I cannot figure out how to do the quote thing on my Kindle and sorry for the delayed response but I just wanted to agree with you that it's likely neither of us have an aversion to common decency; a lack of which would surely be a significant trait. While our politics are surely divergent I do respect your opinions and your ability and determination to make your case. I could never agree with the idea that Amaram is better than Dalinar; interesting perspective. Your interpretation of things is really fascinating.

For me it is really difficult to find a redeeming quality in Amaram; killing defenseless people in my view is cowardly. I guess the one thing I can say is that at least the only individuals he murdered were soldiers as opposed to civilian men, women and children. That said, this is a militaristic society and it would be difficult for someone like me to relate to how Amaram feels especially when I am unaware of the knowledge he holds and what his exact purpose is for his heinous acts. Moogle, it’s good that we can find some common ground in our appreciation for Brandon Sanderson’s work because I’m fairly certain we are at opposing ends when it comes to real world views and philosophies. Also, as someone who has been closely affected by more than one suicide I can tell you that the only way I could possibly view ending your own life as an act of courage is in the defense of the life of another. If a person takes their own life and drags thousands of men, women and children with them then I’m going to go ahead and categorize that as an act of cowardice. Not only are they ensuring they do not have to face their victims or the families of their victims, they’ve likely convinced themselves to ignore the reality of what they are about to do; deceiving themselves into believing that what they do is for their perceived greater good (similar to Amaram). As far as I’m concerned attacking those who have no idea that it is coming and no possible way of defending themselves is an act of cowardice just as punching 2 year old would be cowardly. Buck up to someone who sees you coming and has the ability fight back, otherwise it is cowardly. So, with that said, count me on board with those who see the 911 terrorists as cowards. I realize you're not defending them; just making the case that the word 'cowardice' doesn't fit. I'm just disageeing with you.

So, is there a description of the effects on a person’s physical body in the Physical Realm when they visit Shadesmar? Do they disappear from the Physical Realm reappearing only when they’re finished doing whatever they were doing in the Cognitive Realm? Or is there no concept of time in Shadesmar? Or perhaps there are different planes of time in each realm (i.e. an hour in the Cognitive Realm equals a millisecond in the Physical Realm)? I’m just wondering what person A in the Physical Realm would see if they were in the process of observing Person B, when suddenly Person B decides to hop on over to Shadesmar. What if the only effect is the reduction or elimination of mental faculties in the Physical World; their body is in the Physical Realm but their mind is in the Cognitive Realm (ignoring the seeming anomaly of Lift's ability to physically touch the Cognitive Realm?). Assuming truth to the theory that Jezrien is the Stormfather, perhaps that would explain why Darkness mentions his drooling issue while Syl mentions the Stormfather’s prohibition on honorspren returning and bonding with humans in the Physical Realm. Perhaps he spends most, if not all of his time in the Cognitive Realm while his mentally-checked out body remains in the Physical Realm. Just a thought.

I think the light was coming from the amethyst broam Kaladin fished out of the puddle.