Quiver

Unfortunately, I do not share your optimism. Inquisitors are close-minded. If one of them is running rampant, no doubt others will, and like all bugs, they will be attracted to the grandest light of the Empire; Urteau. They are not unlike your survivor in that way.

, slipping awesomely across (I was not ninja'd. This makes perfect sense. So there.)

I don't wish for there to be any misunderstandings in our relationship, so I will use small words for you, skaa. I am not a part of your crew. I do not endorse the slaughter of any of the Sliver of Infinitys servants. It is an unfortunate coincidence that some of the cantons gold and resources have vanished at the same time your crew receives payments. Just as it is unfortunate that an Inquisitor, of all people, would turn heretic and rampage in the streets if Luthadel. I can only hope he is -quickly- brought to justice.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4815-essence-marks-and-allomantic-gold/?view=findpost&p=79547 I've been looking for MAG info, so thanks for this.

So, I've had some experience with video game RPGs, but reading FeatgerWriters Sydney Scroungers transcripts make me curious about table top role playing. And, well, I happen to know there's one based on a series if novels by this writer I sort of like... Can anyone give me any feedback on the game? How is it played? Is it any good? Would it be bad for an aspiring writer to jump into that as his first experiment with the genre?

Soothing and Rioting would certainly have their... possibilities. It makes me wonder how Scadrial's political system has evolved. Imagine a modern politician with The. Lord Rulers ability to Riot/Soothe with Duralumin.

That's a lot of awesome. Sir, would you please step out of the forum for a moment? We just need to make sure you aren't a thirteen year old girl who refuses to count past ten, and then you can be on your way to enjoying the Sanderfandom,

My only problem with that timeline is that, at the moment, Odium is being set up as the Big Bad of both the Cosmere and Roshar. There's still nine books left for Stormlight Archives, so maybe the Odium plot is a red herring for the real danger. Maybe Odium will be defeated in Stormlight so Bavadin can be the villain of the Cosmere. I tend to like meta-stories, but I do worry about Odium. He could be like Brandon's Randall Flagg; a great character and a compelling villain, anti-climactic ally killed off.

"Awesome!" Lift said,

I am suddenly grateful I didn't try working Queen into my name anywhere. That might have been an interesting user title: Queen of Canton. ...Actually... Er... Anyway... I'd agree for day and night threads. One of the reasons I sort of fell behind last time was that, if you were gone for a long period of time, it became tough to find where your discussion ended and to evaluate everything everyone was saying. Is there anyway to merge topics? If so, maybe we could have Day/Night threads for each phase, and merge them together when the turn is up?

Were the Dors

With how popular cop shows are, a television show based on Alloy of Law or the second Mistborn trilogy might be interesting. Are there any magic-based procedurals? I've seen the occassional cop show which has a bit of a sci-fi bent to it, but fantasy hasn't really gotten into that field on-air.

of a diaboloical

I wonder. Harmony is actually in a very, very unique position in the Cosmere. As far as we know, Harmony is the only Shard to be made up of two; it's possible to interpret 'Harmony is the most powerful Shard in the Cosmere' as meaning he outranks another 2+ Shard, but it seems unlikely. Unlike Ati, Sazed matches his Intent fairly well. I don't remember what information we have on Tanavast, and I'm sure we have nothing on the rest, so as is, Sazed is the good Rayse. Also unlike Rayse, Ati or the rest, Sazed wasn't present at the Shattering and hasn't held his Shard for as long. That might put him at a bit of a disadvantage- in his book in Hero of Ages he mentions he's going to have research who or what Adonalsium is- but it might be an advantage as well. If someone was going to break the unspoken rules and laws governing how the force of Creation works, it will probably be the one who had no contact or understanding that those rules existed. Plus, given the relatively short period of time Sazed has held Harmony, I'm inclined to believe it hasn't become an overriding directive for him. So maybe that's what Odium is planning? Doing nothing, until Harmony becomes more important to Sazed than anything else, and then making his move.

Why not. Might as well try and redeem my name from the last game (though Quiver is a hard name to turn into a noun) Lord Ollivier, an Obligator of the Canton of Orthodoxy. I suppose you skaa would want to hang me, or some equally barbaric thing. I don't particularly care. I still retain some degree of power and protection, and my bureaucratic skills are as invaluable to your leaders as they were to mine. Besides which, it would appear there is a common disturbance in our city. The Canton of Inquisition has always been somewhat overzealous. Now, I wouldn't be one to say it, but I have heard some of my colleagues proposing that support for the discreet correction of this problem might be a good sign of our co-operation and friendship. It would indicate that you skaa are more civilised than expected at the very least.

As writelhd says, this topic is one born largely out of my own ignorance. While I find the issue of gender fascinating, particularly in fiction, it means I might not post here much, or might do so just to give my own impressions or responses- impressions and responses which may, very well, be wrong. As a matter of fact, I hope they are, and encourage everyone to call me out on my misunderstandings. One of the things I think is important from the opening is the isolation of female characters. I can't speak for science-fiction, but it's always been my impression that fantasy novels tend to be male-dominated casts, with only a handful of women. The problem I have with that is that it makes the female characters stand out more, simply on the basis of their not being male- which opens them to a degree of scrutiny and idolisation that I don't think would be applied otherwise. For instance, Eowyn is the only female soldier in the Lord of the Rings. Her motivation (or part of it, at least) is that she's been raised in a society that glorifies war, but considers it a pursuit for men. Theoden trusts Eowyn to lead their people in his and Eomer's absence, but given how he previously ushered her aside at Helm's Deep, it's unlikely that this had anything to do with her leadership abilities, and everything to do with her sex. But the books point out that, if nothing else, Eowyn can fight. She can fight well. I may be confusing the films and the books, but I believe she fought some Uruk-hai who made it into the Glittering Caves. Her crowning moment may be her killing the Witch King, but that was in the middle of the largest battle the Third Age had ever seen. Are we expected to believe that was her only kill at Pellenor? Then, after the war, she renounces being a warrior, and decides she wants to make things grow. It puts her in line with Arwen and Galadriel, who also reject open warfare to act as support for the male heroes through the provision of tokens. When I was discussing this with writelhd, she commented that Eowyn My response was that I didn't see her that way. Tolkien had a deep (arguably blinding) love of nature. Further, to me, the claims that Eowyn hanging up her shield is sexist because it indicates women can't, or shouldn't, be soldiers misses the point that, with the exception of Aragorn, the rest of the Fellowship retired from it's warfaring days. With Tolkien's affection for nature and the fact that Sam (arguably the hero of the story) practices the profession Eowyn will be engaging in, her actions make her more idealised. Tolkien went to great effort to show just how destructive war, even necessary war like the War of the Ring, could be; the natural counterpoint to that is the emphasise the value of creation. But that's only one interpretation, and I can see the flaws it makes too. Rather than having Eowyn be her own character, it idolises her in the same way the text has previously idealised Arwen and Galadriel. The Lord of the Rings presents a mix of noble (Aragorn, Frodo), ignoble (Gollum) and flawed (Denethor, Boromir) male characters. It's easier to analyse a variety of presentations and work out what the authorial intent is. When all your female characters fall squarely into the 'noble' bracket, it's sexist in a different way. It reduces women by putting them on a pedestal and calling them perfect. It suggests that women are not like men. Men can run the gamut of personalities, ideals, wants and dreams. Women, unanimously, are perfect. I think that might be why, in some fantasy, there's a tendency for the woman to be an extraordinary character; she's already been singled out by her gender. So we get women in fantasy who are princesses, or queens, or assassins, and are the only major female character to appear in that book, period. The cliche blueprint for a fantasy novel is "An ordinary farmboy must save the world from a Dark Lord". No doubt some of the commentators can point me towards the ordinary farm girl stories, but are any of them really 'ordinary' in the way the typical male protagonist is? I remember the third Shannara book had a female lead, but she was chosen because of her magical abilities, while the heroine of the Deed of Paksenarrion ran away to escape marriage. Those aren't really the typical reasons for the 'ordinary farmboy' story, and they still emphasise that women are, in some way, more special than men. Actually, on that point, another personal story; a few days ago, I was talking to FeatherWriter about an RPG campaign (which I recommended everyone interested in this topic to read, since it portrays a diverse mix of gendered and sexual characters). I wasn't talking about the campaign though; I was asking her if she considered something I took from the campaign and used for a short story to be plagiarising. It wasn't a character, or even a character concept. Our works were completely different genres. I was worried because, after reading a story with a strong, female military officer, I wrote a story which featured a strong female military officer as a secondary character. Her response to me was, basically, that their group didn't own the rights to female military officers, and I was free to use that profession if I wanted, but it made me realise something. I had been intending on using a military commander anyway, it was just that my outline had made him a generic male figure. I was worried that reading the Sydney Scroungers had compelled me in some way to make that character female, to try and make her stand out... because I was buying into the idea that male was the default, and women are special. They stand out simply by virtue of being women. But the audience, I think, is so conditioned to that that we don't really notice it until it's called into question. Is A Song of Ice and Fire sexist? The society certainly is, and the women have been shaped by it, so it's not surprising a concern one of the women expresses is that her son's wife have "good, child-bearing hips". In the early books, Cersei is portrayed as a scheming woman; politically ignorant in some areas, but capable of ruling the kingdom in her husbands absence. When we get to her own POVs, though, she comes across as petty, politically ignorant, and focused on the worst of sexist tropes- part of what motivates her is a fear that she will be replaced by a queen described as younger and beautiful, and a desire for power. Would Cersei be considered sexist? Maybe. But unlike Lord of the Rings, A song of Ice and Fire has it's range of female characters. We have 'good' female heroes (Cat, Sansa), female 'villains' (Cersei, Melisandre) and others who are hard to classify (Arya, Asha). We have stories of women liberating themselves from bondage in Dany, of women actively rebelling against societal roles like Brienne, and even have a hint of a more egalitarian society in the presence of the Martell family. And even within those classifications, Martin plays with our understanding of how those tropes should act. In A Game of Thrones, Cat is resentful of her husbands bastard, and takes plenty of opportunities to make her displeasure clear, including at one point wishing him dead. Cersei loves (or at least appears to love) her children, and her villainy is understandable as the product of a narcissist using the only means they have in a restrictive society to get what she wants. Brienne is one of the most noble characters in the series, holding to the ideals of knightly virtues that the series has thoroughly undercut; she's admirable, but almost niave. And Dany might be a success story, but it's one with it's own fair share of horrors, many of them perpetrated by her. My point is that I wouldn't consider Martin sexist for his presentation of a medieval society, because his characters and not unanimously strong to the point of idolisation. They're human, which means they are a mix of strong and weak, virtue and vices. Or, to use an example which doesn't focus on the darkest parts of humanity, The Way of Kings, with it's female cast interacting with one another rather than being defined with men. Those make more interesting female characters to me. EDIT For that matter, am I alone in thinking that female authors open themselves to criticism of author insertion than men do? Consider Twilight, where Bella has been the subject of some... debate. Or J.K.Rowling, who is probably the most influential YA novelist of our time, but whose books are focused on a core team of two boys and a girl. Rowling has a range of female adults, but barely any female children, none of whom get the attention of the main trio. Would Harriet Potter and the Sorcerers Stone be equally appealing to audiences? Do male leads appeal to female readers the same way female ones do? Is there a preference? If Mistborn was printed with all the pronouns backwards, how would that effect how we react to the book? Brandon says in his annotations that making Vin a girl was the moment it clicked for him, but would that still have the same effect of she was the only he in The Lady Rulers final empire? Would that open him to accusation of sexism just as much as having no female characters would? Or having the same book written by a female novelist would? DOUBLE EDIT: Not to imply that the only way women stand out is because of positive attributes. Obviously, you could easily find a number of outright sexist insults about them. I was just thinking about how I find it kind of interesting that, at least to me, female characters have a particularly sharp double-edged sword.

The bones of

Ah, the Epilogue. And a pretty long one at that. Which means it has the strip poker Seiko, Eleanor and Miranda teased in the van, doesn't it? I have a distinct memory of ordering a session of strip poker. I'll call on there being strip poker in this piece. Okay... Calling scene one a metaphorical strip poker game, of everyone holding their cards close to their chests and momentarily flashing when they get nervous through blushing or stammering might be a bit of a stretch. Remind me to compare and contrast both epilogues when this one is completed, but the beginning of this reminds me of the ending of the first act, if not the actual epilogue, the difference being that now, Sylvie is the one who is, comparatively, relaxed and not freaking out about Zhu (at least not until she shows up in person). There were bits of characterisation and explanations in this that I really liked, or which clarified things I was slightly confused on; appropriate, since it's clearing the deck for phase 3, First, Sylvie. I'm glad to have my theory about Veena's role backed up in the text proper, even if you did confirm it here anyway. Sylvia's plan to fix fiVe comes across a lot more sympathetically here than it has earlier (with the exception of Veena's, of course). We've seen enough of fiVes glitches to know that she's broken, but it might be significant that we haven't seen her when Miranda drifted the first time. Veena's was a mess, and while fiVe is damaged, she comes across as a lot more functional than Veena was. I wonder if Veena had Ben left behind if she might have grown up and integrated things better. The reason I mention it is because it reminds me of fiVes conversation with Miranda. The implication I got from it was that fiVe has been this level of damaged from the beginning. If she was as bad as Veena had been, though, then that really undercuts Sylvies arguments, since she's developed so much, exactly like everyone has been saying. Eleanor. Eleanor. Eleanor. Fine, my theory that she is the secret big bad might not have played out, so I need to start looking through the backlogs and figure out exactly what level of mental stability she has, because while I can understand the resentment she has for the cult (and again, I liked the bits of vocabulary used to show her distaste, like calling it a rats nest), responding to concerns about the safety of a child with Ugh, feels makes me wonder if she's a psychopath or a sociopath- and in fairness, she's been grinning like a shark. Sharks are not known for their empathy. And, of course, I really like whenever El gets to be medical or technical. I sort of wish that Miranda and her would have a session; their mutual dislike of the tentacultists might be pretty interesting to explore. I remember the cheat sheet describing Miranda as having done damage to Vee, but until now I was assuming that was the drifting or some smaller things; the way she phrases it to fiVe makes it sound a lot more serious than I thought it was. Again, it's probable I'm forgetting something, but if. I'm not, I think this was the first moment when the damage beyond the drift has been mentioned story-wise. With fiVe playing such a major part in this Act, I'm guessing that's set up for the next one. Are you guys sticking to a three act structure, or will this be continuing until everyone is dead or you lose interest? You know, I noticed Katie slipping Marshall zhu's first name into conversations, but I can't recall if this is the first time Zhu has almost referred to her as Katie. I have to say, I find it kind of funny (and sad) at how tangled the relationships are getting here; as far as I can untangle them, Katie has a crush on Zhu. Zhu doesn't know this. Zhu has a thing for Miranda. Miranda knows that and doesn't care romantically for Zhu, but she is interested in Seiko. And narrative law says that since Sulvie hates Seiko, she will be the Hermione to to his Ron.Then there's Backwards Compatibility in the mix as well. The only one I can't connect in is Eleanor, but in fairness, I thought if Zhu was going to have a relationship with a crew member, it would be her. Still, I think there's enough hormones to officially rechristen Tranquility the Love Boat. I think Katie, in her de-briefing, is more worn down than we've seen her up to this point. After all the times that she's corrected herself mid-sentence, it's nice that she finally gets to finish the word Rachel, even if it is just in her head. For all the things I (and Sylvie) said about him in the earlier chapters, it's interesting that Sylvie is the one being considered less than a decent human being; her stock with the team has nosedived this arc. I like the two's reaction to the Miranda problem,too. Katie was obligated to mention it, given how potentially dangerous the secrets that got out were, but I like that Zhu won't make Miranda go to counselling. The comparisons between fiVe and mental illness earlier seem to be echoed here, and it makes me like ZHu, that she is sticking to her principles so thoroughly. Also, it seems she isn't as unaware of. Katie's affections as I thought. This... might get awkward. I like the scenes with Eleanor talking to someone, since they always show that undercurrent I kep sensing with her. Again, the whole thing about mirroring, about Sylvie and Miranda's physcology profiles show off her background as a doctor really well. And it's interesting that we've gotten a bit more backstory on her now, regarding her parents. It's still being played tight, but that pause when she remembers them does a lot to explain why she is how she is. Again, like with fiVe, I suspect that and her connections with the cult will come to a head in the next act (if it's the last) and, again, I like how intensely personal they are to her. I kind of picked up on Sylvies shifting loyalties, so that's another plot thread I'm looking forward to seeing play out. I don't really have anything to add to scene four. I honestly love it. It's nice seeing the two sides laid out, and, again, the whole Veena thing makes Sylvies side much more palatable to me now. Sylvies debrief, again, seems like the low point of her character arc. You mentioned how co-dependant she was a few pages ago, so having her face up to that and more or less admit she hates herself... painful. But it still leaves a bit of optimism for the future. I liked the extra details we got on Zhu as well. She appeared on the scene as a badass last Act, but this time, between the home calls, the potluck victory feast and now, her old romantic problems, she's become a more rounded and realistic person. Okay, so scene six is a pretty good evaluator of how far everyone has come since the first session. Back then, it was Seiko sitting on his own, and Sylvie with Mira and El, whereas now... Almost in spite of their best efforts their gelling together as a team. If Miranda had asked Seiko that question earlier, I'm not sure if he would have admitted it so readily, not to mention he spent most of the first act off in his own bunk. Now, he's preparing a meal for everyone. He's come a long way while Sylvie fell back. AND A DECK OF CARDS, STRIP POKER, YES! ...wow. Thanks Feather. Broken fiVe and Katie's backstory was exactly what I needed to take the buzz out of you guys disrobing. So... Yeah. I emphasise, a lot, with both Katie and fiVe here. Katie, like Eleanor, is the character we haven't had much backstory on, besides her family money and kanji fascination, so getting hints of that backstory now is interesting- and it sounds tragic and unpleasant enough that I kind of really want to see it. I'm also glad that she managed to get her bosses name out. Like Miranda said, there might be some barrier issues -everyone, including Zhu, are kind of breaking down decorum and lines of command- but if that ship is going to sail, getting on a first name basis is probably a start. And with both back stories heavily implied to involve personal pain, I want the ship to sail.

Curses! Foiled again by Brandon's opus. Mistborn is a little confusing to begin with, or at least I found it so. Still, once you realise how it plays into the pitch for it- what if the Dark Lord won, as the cover says- it starts to make sense. I saw a review that compared The Final Empire to Mordor, and all the ash clouds clogging up the air, and the general sense of resignation pervading the book backs that up for me... It's fantasy as a deliberate attack on fantasy, sort of. So, it is interesting, but it can only be somewhat unconventional. So it's pretty lucky you signed onto a board with people who probably know the book inside and out, huh? If you get confused, I'd suggest just reading on,mor posting a topic to ask to get things clarified.

Oh, do you were in this castle all along. No wonder I could never find you. But now that I have, welcome.

This was what I was building up to asking; how did Sazed become Harmony is he had more Ruin than Preservation. I like your theory that it went to the koloss. Yes, they had some intelligence in Hero of Ages, with their decisions(instincts?) to spike people to create more of them, but they didn't seem like real... creatures with sentience, unlike the Parshendi or the Kandra. Especially if Tarson really is Koloss-blooded, and that's not some Roughs slang for "he's a bad dude, like a koloss". (And now I picture Alloy of Law gangsta crews, rolling around Elend and popping coins in anyone who enters their hoods. Fantastic.) Anyway, thanks everyone for replying to this.

I think we need a bit more context for what Brandon means by "powerful" though. The Lord Ruler and Susebron were functionally immortal, but that was tied into their respective magic systems. If the Lord Ruler was left on Roshar, would his abilities still work? I've never been clear on whether or not it's Scadrian metal which is specifically required for allomancy, but if it is, then unless he brings a stockpile with him, he's lost (literally) half his abilities. "More powerful" might mean more versatile. Or it might be that The Lord Ruler doesn't count because of his experience at the Well, and Susebron doesn't count because he's Returned. Or it might mean he's cleverer. The Hulk is the strongest Avenger, but it's debateable as to whether he's the most powerful. Point is, when we see Hoid in action, it will be awesome. I'm expecting it to happen at some point within the Stormlight Archives, at least a glimpse of what he's capable of.

Let me get this straight. You believe that someone with an impenetrable, invulnerable suit of armour and a sword that cuts souls souls should abuse his powers to get all of the wonderful toys he wants, and you're first instinct is that he should turn into Batman? He'd be invincible! You're answer implies that he won't use his Shardblade (because Batman doesn't kill) but if he does, even once? Corpses with burnt out eyeballs would scare people worse than allomantic motorcycles would. It doesn't matter if the guy who suffered it deserved it, the fact that you run around a city with a concealed weapon which you can mystically summon at any time would inspire a huge backlash. The cops would be after you, the public would be afraid of you, and this wave of crusading would most likely inspire copycats or worse, just plain run of the mill psychopaths, to take to the street and cause as much mayhem as possible. So... I guess you would be just like Batman.

My guess is it would be the third trilogy. From what I've read, the second trilogy sounds like a crime drama, with SWAT Mistings and Mistborn serial killers. NCIS: Scadrial, if you will. Maybe Odium would have a role to play there, but it seems unlikely. Then again, I also have concerns over Odium being the Cosmere-wide Big Bad, when the Stormlight Archives seems set to have him be the Final Boss.

Commander Penguin, report to the Bridge. And see if you can't find the rest of my Harmony-damned crew on your way here! (I have no idea what you might be referring to. This is just a coincidental melding of my enjoyment of the cosmere with that of (at least certain) series of Star Trek. Any similarities between this and another thread are fictitious, and certainly not the basis for a law suit to be filled by either party.) Though speaking of the thread, I've intercepted important information regarding the mistcloaked ship that attacked the Elendel in that vicinity. I should have a communications officer to intercept this for me, but whatever... It turns out the Vindicator wasn't being commandeered by Mister Kurk on behalf of Scadrian Independence. It was under the command of Kurkistan of Borg. We have our first mission; to confront this dangerous new threat! All hands on board!