Haelbarde

I saw that, but that doesn't seem relevant to what I was saying, or at least was already incorporated into the logic that lead to my position. No Elim kills is a village win yes, but we wouldn't be able to tell 10:4, 11:3, or 12:2 apart from each other meaning that we learn absolutely nothing. The pool of Elim suspects would have remained at its greatest possible amount.

Huh. I had expected that TUN would have posted more than I but apparently not. @Doc12 In this post: What about what I had said already had been clarified by Aman?

Huh. I expected the elims to just go for no-info and make no kills this loop to make our two executions actually useless. But in world where they decided no kill was boring, this was the night I'd have pulled a WGG if I were an elim. So provided this loop ends in a village win, I'll almost certainly be pushing for Ashbringer to be executed next loop unless there are compelling alternatives. ( @Wonko the Sane, this was the actual outcome of my looking into the mechanics. I didn't see that village actions mattered much to the outcome of this loop, that it's entirely up to elims which of the 3 ending categories we arrive at.) Anyways, sorry for not actually getting to reads yet. My schedule is new and I'm still getting used to it, and it's not necessarily gelling well with where rollover works out to be. And sorry for the continued excuses. Gonna add some RP now, then try and at least make a start on things. A new day had risen to find Link still curled up in front of the coals of the messhall hearth. Coma had turned into restful sleep. Eventually as sounds of life begun to fade in, he stirred. Yawning, he sat up and stretched, opening his eyes to see a figure offering him a bowl of warm breakfast. "Really keen for breakfast I see." ... It turned out that being fed a hearty meal was a recipe for convincing him to do anything. He wondered why he was wading through swap waters carrying a pack in one hand, and a human in the other, but there was little to do about it now. Finally they had reach the temple. He stood and watched as, after some discussion, the one named Ap had played a haunting melody on a pale ocarina, and the world had danced to her tune. Link drew closer to hear what was being said. "The Dinolfos is the first problem", the one named Kashika was saying. "Taking it down gets us the bow." Link considered the waiting creature, and the architecture that could be seen through the temple opening. After a moment, he chose to speak up. "I could help with getting close to Dinolfos..." He trailed off, freezing, as suddenly all eyes looked his way. He looked at his feet as he shuffle them. "Not much an arrow is going to do if it hits me while I'm balled up. I can probably pick up some speed on the way in and just roll about inside. It's hard to aim when you can't see where you're going so I probably won't knock it over, but I reckon it'd keep it pretty distracted while I was tumbling about. Could let some of you others get close enough to do something about it." He looked up at the gathered crowd. "Just a thought. If it helped."

Feeling a little more like himself for having eaten, now it was time to sleep. He was very tempted to just curl up beside the hearth, but that would probably be rude. So he wearily stomped out into the hall. Half an hour of trying to find anything resembling a bedroom later, with a lot of trying to flag down someone who looked like they knew what they were doing or where things were, only to fail to do so quickly enough before they hurried past and down another hallway, he stumbled back into the same messhall he had started in. Sleeping by the hearth it was. Rolling up, sleep found him quickly.

While I feel like I've gotten a better feel for some of the mechanical consequences of the rules of this game, my conclusion was that nothing matters, at least not this loop. >> Which is a pity, because solving through mechanical analysis is my preferred approach. Alas. Going to need to do a thorough read through, start building some actual reads. Should hopefully be a bit more reliable these next few days. Had someone asked, he would not have been able to explain how he got from being curled up on the trail to sitting eating in a mess room at the Deku palace. It wasn't even a blur. If not for the bowl of hot food in front of him as evidence, he would not believe it himself. Someone must have gotten him walking again, or maybe someone had just started him rolling. He really did not know. He would have to make some inquiries later to thank whoever had done so.

Ah, thanks. Another detail I overlooked in the rules Guess I'll have to redo some of my number crunching, but that does reduce some of the complexity, so that is at least something.

With no D1 execution and no N1 nk, if we just didn't execute anyone today or D3, it doesn't really matter if elims night kill or not, we would win this first round. We wouldn't really learn anything, but we'd have one win under our belts. But that is of little use right now >> And that was my break between classes, I'll try and get back on after this last class.

Sorry everyone, fatigue turned into a headache and kinda took me out for the rest of the day. So what are indicators of alignment we can look for? All we have to go in is the engagement in thread. Typically, we might look for unusual behaviour relating to the execution, but that is going to be less useful than normal on two counts: firstly deaths are flipless, so we cannot easily put reactions in their proper context based on revealed alignment, and secondly the mechanics of the loops with boss masks as the wincon and players returning to life gives the eliminators more strategic options that potentially reduces the need to care so much, at least initially. I think? I need to plot that out a bit more. (Runs some numbers) ... (Runs some more numbers) Okay, I need to spend more time on this as I've not got it all mapped out yet and I can't yet tell if sharing those particular thoughts aren't going to be more useful to the elims. Mostly I got as far as determining that if we were able to correctly identify a single elim this loop, then we could win the game. But I've got a class starting presently, so while I'll trying work through this all, I'm not yet sure if we're better of executing a villager or an eliminator so I'm not sure what I should be trying to look for to throw a vote on >>

Hey all, I spent very little time not out or getting poor quality sleeping this last weekend, so now that I'm home from classes just getting caught up with this cycle now. I've read everything, but not studied anything, so analysis is going to have wait a little longer. But have some RP while you wait. ~ The night, and much of the following day had been a blur. Though some effort had gone into saving those trapped in the fires, swiftly the work had changed to a full evacuation through the southern gate. Still in shock, he found himself marching on the perimeter of a convoy traveling to seek refuge in the Deku swamps. Then the Skulltulas arrived in a flood. He fell to the ground, crushing a few more by accident than any particular attention, as he curled up into a boulder. When would it stop...

Ah, that makes sense, I had missed that masks reset each loop, so that's good to know. Does mean there's limited utility in purchasing a mask during cycle 3 as it takes time to actually wear the mask as well. So a D1 purchase gives you the most time to use one. So outside of a money hat, even if it were possible to purchase a tier 3 mask during loop 2, you might opt to wait until loop 3 to actually try it. Which I think means there is going to be very limited information to be gained by any of the masks, with a low probability at that So once the execution discussion is going to be most important aspect of gaining info as we try and get most info we can from the boss mask acquisitions. Imagine that His arms trembled as he forced the blazing tinder aloft. The mother bundled her child in her arms, her eyes darting wildly as she stumbled back along the trail he had broken through the burning building. The house whined. He knew it would soon collapse and he could do no good buried in rubble that could take days to clear. As he staggered out after the woman, he hoped that no one had been left behind.

I figured that people might not actually realise that I'm meant to be a character from the game, and seeing I've referred repeatedly to his hat, his bowtie, and his backpack, it probably doesn't hurt people to be able to picture it. I can't really do anything about the fact that I cannot help but hear all the different tunes from around Clock Town whenever I think about the game, or hear the change of day rumble sound for rollovers, so just the picture'll have to do Leaving a lesser form of distruction in his wake as he barrelled through street, crashing through crates and scoffholding blocking the way forwards, he came to stop before the inferno that had once been a building he'd walk past only hours before. The heat would do little to affect his rock like skin, but the deep black smoke could still be a problem. Caution would need to be taken. Something groaned, cracked, and then gave way in the building, shooting its own firework of sparks into the air above. Fresh screams rang out with in. He dove forward, the locked door giving way to the sheer mass and momentum of his balled form. He hoped it was not too late.

So, all the masks went. It did seem likely, but there was a chance that everyone went for the same two or three and left one untouched. I guess no PMs until tomorrow, provided someone actually chooses to put the postman's cap on. Incidentally, is it even possible to get the Fierce Diety Mask? We start with 10 rupees, then max gain cycle is 10, with there being 3 cycles per loop (so 30 per loop), and 4 loops, so that gets us to 130 rupees if you spend none. There are two rupee gaining masks. If you spend 5 rupees to get the Bunny Hood, you would start cycle 2 with 15, and then get 15 per cycle, so 45 per loop, 4 loops is 180 rupees. I think that means the only way you might get is if you have the postman's hat. But then even that has challenges. "+1 rupee for each unique player that is delivered a message". So that's a max of 16 rupees gained if as written that only applies once per game, and only if everyone actually decides that limited delayed finite PMs is worth the cost. If that's per cycle, then you would need need 5 or 6 people per cycle to receive PMs for you to reach your goal. And obviously all of this assumes you don't die. ( @Amanuensis Any chance you could clarify the reset time period on the unique recipients?) Hats and hoods don't stack, so there's not a world in which you get a 1.5x on the Postman's income. Alas. Edit: @Burnt Spaghetti You didn't set the fire did you?

The surprise knocked him off his feet, landing hard on the ground. This had to be a joke. It couldn't be real, could it? Thirty. Three. Years. He hadn't dared come back. He'd finally convinced himself that it would be fine, and that he didn't want to let the fear rule him any more. ... So of course disaster would strike this year. Why had he come. After finally getting let into the city, it turned out his reservation had been stolen again, this time by someone in a cardboard goron costume wearing a green cap. He looked up. In the distance the darkness glowered orange, a nighmarish shadow play of dancing figures being lit across the sky already filling with smoke. He had no where better to be. Fires were as close to his natural habitat as he was going to find in town, so he may as well try and do some good. Slipping off his backpack, and recovering his cap, he began to roll towards the flame.

So in lieu of advocating PM safety while the Postman's hat does not adorn anyone's head, I would caution people to be careful regarding making indications around what they are doing with their rupees, whether hoarding them, or trying for hats, and if trying for hats, which hats. While such information will be useful for analysis later on, I think in the short term it is more likely to benefit the elims knowing. Yes, they have an advantage in terms of the ability to coordinate which hats to compete for, but I reckon public coordination might do more harm in the short term. Not saying you can't, but just think twice about doing so first. There is a fun aspect to the mask though - where in a normal game, revealing that you got some sort of information from your ability can be really dangerous, in this game, having a mask, getting some info from it, and then dying means you've at the very least temporarily lost the ability and someone else could get it instead the next loop, removing some amount of the danger of sharing said information upon being revived at the new loop. Definitely will be fun to see if that comes into play. Of course, particularly through the first two loops, with limited funds and masks, and only 4 deaths, there's decent odds that no mask bearer dies in the first two loops, so we'll have to see how it goes

Before him on the grassy plain stretched Clock Town, neither the painted walls or the tops of buildings doing anything to obscure the eponymous clock tower at its centre. Link had been here once before, 33 years ago, the day the moon had fallen from the sky. He hadn't felt particularly motivated to visit again, but finally he had figured that 33 years with no reports of more object falling from the sky meant it was probably safe. So he once again had reserved a room at the famed Stock Pot Inn, and had made the journey in time for the festival. Perhaps this time he would actually get to keep his reservation - somehow it had been taken by some other Goron named Link just hours before he had arrived. He had never quite worked out who it was, and after an uncomfortable night's sleep out on the streets he had journeyed home. Looking now to the gates, he reseated his cap upon his head, straightened his tie, and plodded forward to join the queue at the city gate. --- "Next", the guard barked, as he ushered a cart of Romani milk through the gate. "Papers and permit?" Link moved forwards, taking the pack off his back to retrieve the necessary paperwork from it's depths. "The name's Link, goro" he said as he laid the papers in the waiting hand. "Here for the festival as a tourist. Hopefully with less falling moons this time, goro." The guard paused, taking the papers but not looking at them as he frowned towards him. "Yeah, sure. Do you know how many people have said they're named Link today? There have been 2 or 3 just in the last hour, and they at least tried to look the part - there's not a speck of green on you. I really don't need the jokes. What's your real name?" "But... my name is Link. It's on my papers if you have a look, goro." The guard rolled his eyes, and sighed. "I really don't have time for this," he muttered, as he glanced through the documents. Then he looked at them closer, looking quizzicly up at Link before looking back at the papers, first peering closely, then holding one of the pages up to the light. He motioned one of the other guards standing nearby to come over, muttering quickly and quietly to him, showing the papers. After going through much the same ritual, the second guard asked whether he was in fact named Link. Link nodded that he was, and the second guard peered closely at the papers again. "Why don't you wait over here for a second. We just need to do some checks. These seem to be in order, but we just want to be sure." With a sinking feeling, Link followed the guard to the side. Who would have thought that some kid having the same name as you would have made even entering a town such a difficult process.

I might be blind, but while I think the rules imply that in a 16 player game the elims have a night kill, I'm not seeing that it actually says that they do get a kill. @Amanuensis, can you confirm that they do get a kill? Also, when you say you'd rather RP and discussion separated, is having one post with a clear delimitation of which portion is RP and which is gameplay discussion acceptable, or would you prefer that they be distinct posts, to the degree that the shard allows that? Edit: Also, does one assume there is not a giant faced moon looming dangerously above the city?

I might sign up. Mind if I play as Link the Goron?

Thanks everyone! And well done @Stick. - was loads of fun being evil with you - thanks for keeping us updated in the Spiked doc even when the rest of you left you. Was also nice to play alongside you @Faerie Braids, good to meet you!

This was super fun! Thanks for running! And well done everyone. Your early choices to sow chaos Mat were great, and if not for Archer's bold lie that helped direct everyone to Devo I reckon you might have had the game. And nicely played Archer. The uncertainty in all the information was doing my head in >> but it made for a wonderful puzzle. Feels like there's stuff to tweak, and I'd be curious how it'd fair at double the player count, but seems quite workable a ruleset.

Follow up post in case this merges To clarify, something that contributes to me being generally suspicious of Mat is that he hasn't (that I can see) made any claim of his N1 actions, when in a all villagers sharing information to solve the puzzle, that'd be the first thing I'd expect a villager to do. Rather, he conveniently doesn't bring his role up when Raven mysteriously seems to have had their action blocked. Evil Innkeeper Mat could well be responsible.

Yay! No more Ooklas! So I had wanted to get Mat's response to what actions he did for Night 1, but seems like he doesn't intend to share, so we'll go ahead and post this anyway. Alright, so my assumption is that there is a Forsaken with one Darkfriend ally. They cannot communicate with each other privately, so the only communication they've had as in thread where we can see it. I think I'm willing to accept Aeoryi's claim of being victim to the bubble of evil. Doesn't mean they're not a darkfriend (though I don't think they are), but it does mean that they are not the Forsaken. Regarding Devo: N1 Archer as Wisdom determined Devotary was Forsaken N1 Aeoryi as Gossip got that either Devotary was village or Forsaken (but not a darkfriend) N1 Raven as Veteran attempted to kill Devotary, but nothing happened N1 Wizard as Watchman received Devotary as their second name So, with my N0 intel, either I was poisoned/drunk and one of Wizard and JNV are the Forsaken, or I was not, in which case those two are not Forsaken and Devotary is able to. So it's a matter of whether Mat really got me drunk or not N0. It is possible that Archer was given incorrect information C1 (bubble of evil), and Aeoryi's information doesn't give a positive ID. It's possible that Wizard was drunk N0 and so a village read of Aeoryi doesn't help support Devo being a DF or Forsaken. It's possible that the bubble of evil changed Aeoyri's role C2. But the question is how did Raven's ability fail? Only way they don't die is if they didn't use it (feels unlikely), or they were poisoned/drunk. Which means either JNV or Mat is truthful about their roles and is evil. If JNV is an evil apothecary, then that means that I was not drunk N0, and so Wizard and JNV are not Forsaken. Which means that Mat was lying about being an innkeeper, making Mat Forsaken, with JNV blocking the kill. This is trolly on JNV's part rather than necessary. If Mat is an evil innkeeper, I think that means I was drunk N0, and one of my targets is forsaken. evil Mat could be covering for evil Wizard, but I'm not thinking that's likely, though flagging it as a possibility to look back on later. In this world, JNV is Forsaken, while Mat trolled Raven by getting drunk. Still inclined to believe this tbh, but let's keep going. If the bubble of evil hit village Mat instead of Archer, it wouldn't cancel the action, just give false information. My own scan would still be affected by drunkenness, so it would turn the combination of our scans into saying Wizard is Forsaken. But if the C1 bubble of evil didn't hit Archer, then we've got a contradiction with the Archer claim of Devotary as Forsaken. Only way that works is if Wizard and Archer are evil buddies, I think. But this doesn't explain why Raven's action failed. Because I don't see village Mat or JNV blocking Raven. So I don't see this as likely. So what if Mat didn't make me drunk N0. Possibly in this scenario they are not an Innkeeper. That means JNV and Wizard are clear, and that Aeoryi and Devotary are different teams. A village read of Aeoryi, makes Devo a darkfriend or a Forsaken, and taken with Aeoryi's Gossip, puts them as a Forsaken. In a world where Aeroyi is truthful about the C2 bubble of evil but is a darkfriend, this still allows Devo to be Forsaken, but does still allow them to be village. But I'm more inclined to give the Aeoryi village read. We have to give a reason for the Raven kill failing. I don't think evil!Raven makes sense in this world - an evil veteran wouldn't ever want to show their ability, and I think would be more likely to fake claim something less verifiable. I guess it's possible there's a Devotary/Raven team up. But then that makes it more likely for there to be a village Mat who would have made me drunk N0. So I still don't see it. Hrm. This is the mess. Outside of my own alignment the thing I'm most sure about is that Aeoryi is probably telling the truth about the C2 bubble, and so cannot be the Forsaken. If we go on gut reads, I'm feeling off about Devo and Matt, particularly with how they're posting and voting. I can probably go into it more later, but it's under 45 min to rollover so later. So what if Devo = Forsaken, and Mat = Darkfriend Innkeeper. I think it works if I got hit with the bubble of evil, while evil innkeeper Mat does hit both Wizard and I as claimed. I believe the bubble of Evil would mean my results couldn't be relied on as with drunkeness. That then opens up all of the Devo actions suggesting Devo to be evil as being successful. So with that in mind, we'll go with Devotary instead of Mat. I know Drake just ninja'd me again, but here's one with my vote change incorporated. Vote Tally (5) Devotary: Wizard{1}, JNV{1}, Archer{1}, Aeoryi{1}, Hael{2} (0) Mat: Devotary{1}, Hael{1} (1) JNV: Mat{1} (1) Hael: Devotary (1) No Execution: Raven{1} (5) Devotary: Wizard, JNV, Archer, Aeoryi, Hael (1) JNV: Mat (1) Hael: Devotary (1) No Execution: Raven

New post that will probably merge Going to put a vote on Mat while I wait for a response.

@Mat What scans did you get last night?

I asked when Bubble of Evil things happen, and the answer was at the end of Night turns. @GMs - does that mean a Day result won't ever be effected by the bubble?

Right, they can't be an unrelated Darkfriend, they're either good, or they're Forsaken. Only way Devo is Forsaken is if Mat lied about getting Wizard and I drunk, meaning Wizard and JNV are village, and Wizards first name isn't wasted. I'd be inclined to believe that if Mat was lying, he's a darkfriend. Would leave their role up in the air a bit. If this is the world we're in, strong chance that Wizard's next name is either Mat or Devo. Just flagging that I'd put question marks on the drunk things, and Paradigm is also claiming to have Wisdomed if Devo was the Forsaken, I think.