Haelbarde

Is there an easy way of seeing who has posted, and how many times, in a given thread since the update?

As far as keeping track of voting, have you seen the vote tallies with the vote history that Kas and I use? That's easy enough to make, and record. I often keep track of if someone has posted, so I have data on how active players are.

Thanks for the game Wyrm and Kas, and for all the amazing write ups!

4 hours ago, Wonko the Sane said:

NOTE: A large section of the following was originally typed in my PM with Seonid. When I realized how much I wanted to say, I cut and pasted, then finished it here. I intended to bring it up publicly eventually, and I didn't want to type it all twice. It would perhaps be better to wait for the end of the game, but this is on my brain right now, and I wanted to get it out there. This isn't in bluetext, but it is very much out-of-game; I just hate reading and/or writing bluetext for more than a few short paragraphs.

[Referring to the rampant inactivity] ...I intend to bring this up at the end of the game, because we as a community need to discuss this. I'm just as guilty, so I don't mean to cast aspersions on anyone, but this is a problem that needs addressing. The fight against inactivity has been a part of the game since the early days of SE, but rarely have I seen it destroy games with the depressing regularity we're getting these days.

You seem to feel the same, with your public pleas, but I feel that appealing to individuals is going to be ineffective, as your target audience is specifically the group least likely to hear you. Instead, we need to come together, outside the context of any particular game, and talk this out, like what we're doing for etiquette or rules complexity.

The fact that this is happening so regularly, no matter the game, players, or circumstances, means that the problem is systemic. We can't solve this by resolving to "try harder", unless we expect a large section of players to make significant sacrifices in other areas of their lives. And since there was definitely a time when playing this game didn't require that, we need to talk through what's wrong with the status quo.

What, systemically, causes players to go inactive so often, and to stay that way for so long? What changes can we make so that keeping up with things is easier and more rewarding? How can we help players who have gone inactive to more easily return to the game? What can we do, in the possibly-inevitable event that some players do go inactive, to ensure that the game survives it with minimal damage to the experience of the remaining players?

We need to talk these questions and others over, back and forth, and consider them from every angle. It's natural to jump to conclusions: I -- like, I would guess, so many of you -- immediately want to blame the current hot-button issues of complexity creep and a hostile game environment. But that only serves to rob us of a conversation we desperately need to have. Don't be afraid to voice your first thoughts, but don't stop with them either.

Maybe what's changed is simply the player base, and we need to accept that; working not to restore the game to what it was, but to help make it into a positive experience for the players of today. Maybe expecting a major change in activity is just plain unrealistic in the near future, and our efforts would be better spent designing games that can be fun even after losing a large number of players. Maybe -- a personal observation -- this community has gradually become more and more insular and esoteric, and newer players are being discouraged from participating by a wall of obscure and confusing jargon, dizzyingly intricate strategies, and frankly hard-to-follow references to older games; things that can enrich and streamline the game for more experienced players, but scare off newbies.

My point is that we don't know, and we do ourselves a disservice if we fail to consider every possibility, no matter how seemingly outlandish, before identifying the problem -- and long, long before we decide on a course of action. The Shard has never failed to impress me with its intelligence, levelheadedness, ingenuity, and compassion. Let's put that to work, people, and solve this problem as I know only we can.

Unfortunately, with the game still running, we probably can't discuss the specifics of the inactivity in the game just yet, but I do still have some thoughts.

I think one of the biggest things is people not really understanding, or acknowledging, the time commitments of these games. Really, any game probably requires, as a minimum, half an hour a day, reading the thread, and making a quick response. To contribute analysis or RP, you jump up to more like an hour and a half, at least. And depending on the format, you are expected to keep that up anywhere from a few days, to a month and a half (I guess that also depends on when you get killed). It's not a small time commitment, and if you skip that half hour, it makes it all that much harder to get back into it. I think a problem that does occur is that people don't actually work out how busy their life is for the duration of the game. Another problem is people signing up for games, and then not caring enough to remember they are playing. Another is having multiple commitments to games.

Some of this I've said before - I think ever game should have a strategy in place to deal with inactives, whether a filter, or pinchhitters, or whatever else. I'd also be interested in having some sort of CAPTCHA to ensure only people who read the rules actually play. But a new thought is that I think people should be actively discouraged from playing more than one game at a time, and particularly not two LGs at the same time. Ideally, rules of games should be available well in advance, so people can prioritize which games they join. I think a reason people ignore their time constraints is because the games are all so interesting, and they aren't forced to choose, so play both.

I personally haven't found the game environment hostile, although I'm both an R&R player, and someone who had been semi on hiatus, and will soon go on hiatus permanently, and do I think that game complexity has hurt people's ability to contribute discussion/analysis, I don't think that accounts for most of the inactivity.

You know what the problem with working out what causes inactivity? The lack of talking Ultimately, I think it's a mix of things. And that's going to require a mix of solutions. Recurring players need to be conscious of the effect of their inactivity on the games they join. Ideally, they are honest with themselves, and do their best to only play when they know they have the time to commit. GMs need strategies both to handle when players temporarily have to deal with life, and to deal with players not willing to put the minimum required effort in. New players need to be clearly communicated what the expected activity is.

Ideally change should come from the players, but not all the problems can be solved by players - new players who sign up and don't do anything, or players who have unforseeable emergencies. I think it would be valuable for the community to brainstorm ways for GMs to handle these sorts of situations.

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 2:14 PM, Metacognition said:

Very well, then here's a rule specifically for you, Hael: You have to RP in each post you make, at least a little, and not take the game too seriously. I'll be watching.  

Apart from this post, and the one pointing to this thread, neither of which actually include playing an active game, I indeed kept to that. And it got me RPing. But the rule was a pretty silly rule that had little to do with the sort of thing I was talking about. You've repurposed it for the AG, which may help RP, although I found it hobbled me - it was harder to contribute lots of posts, or in a quick manner. The rules I was suggesting were less about forcing players to do something specific, rather providing easy to manage regulations to minimize the possibility, or impact, of players going inactive.

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 10:06 AM, Wyrmhero said:

TLDR: Put the effort in and read the above, or you're exacerbating one of the problems as I see it.

Personal favorite use of a TL;DR!

Apologies for the intrusion. In response to Wonko's post, I would like to link people to the SE Questions & Answers thread, where there has been some discussion (although it sorta died out...) on the topic. That thread makes for a good place to have this discussion where it won't get lost or fragmented over many games.

There was a slight pop as Hal appeared out of thin air. From the top of the hill, he could see the hapless Tyrian Falls spread out before him. It seemed peaceful, but he knew it was just the eye of the Highstorm, the peace before another Desolation. He wondered if this cycle of death and misery had been the result of a previous Vessel of Odium. There was a touch of Hate here, he felt. But not his own own, and he Hated not knowing. He knew he wouldn't, or more, couldn't get involved directly. That hadn't stopped him from inducing some shared nightmares of his own. Maybe it would be enough to make a difference.

---

It's AG3!

I won't be playing - I'm going on hiatus for the foreseeable future - so just popping in to wish the village good luck! Hopefully anyone who played the last MR or QF (or both!) will be able to put anything they learned to good use!

While I'm here, just wanted to comment on the Cosmetic roles:

Firstly, why no 'Bard' role - making a song reference in every post, with bonus points for full or partial parodies? I mean, Scholarly is close, but still...

Secondly, I'm slightly concerned that RAW, they'll discourage discussion a bit - including really specific RP stuff like in most of those is going to prohibit discussion done over lots of short back-to-back posts. RPing those is bad enough, having to whine about your parents in every breath would be awful.  It'd be a bit unrealistic to have a conversation where that's in every sentence. A few times a cycle, sure, but not every post. Now, you do say that, as far as the 'awards' go, players are chosen by the mods as doing the best job at conveying that Cosmetic role, which to me implies it's okay if stuffs not necessarily in each post, if it is clearly portrayed as an important part of you character when you make larger RP posts. Is that an okay assumption?

Yeah, I really needed to have thought through and written out the criteria for the filter clearer. I tried to give a warning first before enforcing it in some cases. And for that last cycle, with whether to filter kill JUQ or not, I'm fairly confidant that Stick would still have kept her vote on Kynedath, and so the outcome would have been unchanged. Asking the IM for the specific cases is probably the best thing, along with clearer criteria.

I imagine this style filter is going to feel more comfortable in a MR with 48 hour cycles, where a single surprise on one day can get you killed.

The knife fell, and Lyce Norvo fell by Stick's hands. "We did it! We got them all!"

Rhea smiled. "Indeed we did. The invitation didn't lie - there were certainly surprises around ever corner."

John nodded. "Yeah. Secrets were certainly found. Like that wine cellar that Borris found. I didn't know that the manor had a winecellar. Did you Rhea?"

"Nope, that was a surprise to me. And there's certainly riches. Look at all that stuff that Lyce had. All that gold to share between the two of us."

"Um... two of us?" Stick had a confused look on their face. "Last I counted, there were three of us here..."

John looked at Stick. "I only count two people who'll be walking out of here alive." He pointed at himself. "There's me." And then he pointed over Sticks shoulder. "And that nice lady with the knife."

Before Stick had the chance to react, Rhea jammed her knife into the base of Stick's skull. 

---

Kynedath was lynched. He was a Guest. He had 5864 gtold, 2 Long Daggers, a Bow, a Brass Pearl Ring, a Jeweled Amulet, a Grey Cowl, 7 Keys, 4 Lockpicks, a copy of 'The Five Tenets', a copy of 'Guide to Skingrad', a copy of 'Macabre Manifest', a copy of 'Myth or Menace', a copy of 'The Red Book of Riddles', a copy of 'On Oblivion', a copy of 'Bible of the Deep Ones', a Mysterious Note, a Black Cowl, Pigskin Shoes, Doeskin Shoes, Chainmail Boots, Russet Felt Shoes, a Club, an Iron Battleaxe, an Iron Warhammer, a Silver Mace, 2 Daggers, a Mage's Staff of Silence, Stendarr's Toothpick (a Silver-capped Staff), 2 Staffs, a Leather Shield, a Silver Ring, a Grand Soul Gem, Wrist Irons, 3 Tongs, 14 Paintbrushes, 2 Bottles of Cheap Wine, 2 Bottles of Mead, all the cheese, 17 Dragon's Tongue Flowers, 5 Lavender Sprigs, 2 Nightshade Flowers, and 3 Fly Amanita Caps.
I am a Stick was killed. She was a Guest. She had 69 gold, a Staff of Flame, and Pigskin Shoes.

Vote Tally
Kynedath(3): Stick, JUQ, Nyali

---

 

And that's game. The Dark Brotherhood Assassins (Joe, Elenion, Nyali, and JUQ) have won. They forfeited their bonus reward by two of their number being found, but the surviors will still be paid the base amount as dictated by their contract.

I'll try and get the two missing writeups done as soon as I can, and hopefully some more detailed thoughts on this game (as well as last game). But in general, I was happier with how this game went. Particularly with Kas playing, we got some good analysis/discussion going in the early part of the game, even if not all of it was correct (but that's just how these things go). The initial activity was good, but it was a bit unfortunate that we lost 4 players to the inactive filter (apologies Elodin for killing you on your birthday...). I was also pretty happy with the item system that I tacked on at last minute. It was mostly there so Burnt could steal people's shoes, but other people engaged with it, which was nice. I was a bit sad no one tried exploring in general though - someone finding a Daedric shrine would have been a bit of un.

Anyway, I hope everyone enjoyed themselves, and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on how the game went, and things like the filter and the item system. Did people find the filter got them to post more?

Links:
Dark Brotherhood Doc
Dead Doc
Spectator Doc

 

The cycle has ended.

Cycle 8 – The Purveyor of Fine Shoes
 

---

Kipper was lynched. He was a Guest. He had 17 gold, a Plank of Wood, a Kipper, a Fishing Rod, and Clogs.
Burnt Spaghetti was killed. She was a Guest. She had 3 gold, Wrist Irons, Green Velvet Dress, Cloth Footwraps, 5 Lockpicks, Gold Trimmed Shoes, Glass Boots, Leather Boots, White Mage Shoes, Green Velvet Shoes, Fur Boots, Huntsman Moccasins, Buckled Shoes, Sackcloth Sandals, Stitched Leather Shoes, Oiled Linen Shoes, Shoes, and Quilted Shoes.

Assassin has lost the will to live. They were a Guest. They had 8 gold, Wrist Irons, 5 Calipers, an Inkwell, and an Ebony Claymore.
OrlokTsubodai has lost the will to live. They were a Guest. He had 600 gold, a copy of 'Manifesto Cyrodil Vampyrum', and a copy of 'Galerion The Mystic'.

Nyali did not post and has lost their free pass.
JUQ did not post, but had previously organized a free pass for this cycle.

Vote Tally
Kynedath(1): Burnt Spaghetti
Kipper(1): Stick
Burnt(1): Kipper

Loot Crate

Kynedath has taken all the things (except the stuff that just appeared).

Cycle ends in ~24 hours.

Player List

Cycle is over as of 14 minutes ago.

I removed the requirement for 2 votes for a lynch to happen. So yeah, one vote on 3 people would be a die roll (probably a d12).

Cycle 7 – Defenestraticide

Glathir carefully removed a nail from the boarded up window. It wouldn't do for all the windows to be locked up tight like this. If they were, no one else could fall out them.

"Ahem"

Glathir whirled around, hiding the crowbar behind his shirt. Sartinia stood behind him, arms crossed and eyebrow raised. "Ah! Sartinia, finally come to do away with me, Assassin? I know you've been following me, trying to kill me!"

The rest of the guests stood behind the High Elf, some looking at Glathir like he was paranoid, and others nodding along. Some of them were actually intelligent! Of course those were the ones who were voting for him.

"Actually Glathir," began Rhea, "we're all here to stop you. You're the assassin. It's kind of obvious from how many people have been killed by being thrown out of windows." She blinked. "Actually, is that what you're doing to that window behind you right now? The one we specifically boarded over to prevent anyone from falling out?"

"No." Glathir said immediately. As if to mock him, the board he'd been messing with chose that moment to fall off the window. "I was trying to fix that."

Sartinia sighed. "Why have you been trying to convince everyone that I was an Assassin Glathir?"

"Because you stole my shoes!"

Sartinia blinked “I, what?”

Glathir reached into his pocket and pulled out a Mysterious Note. “My shoes are gone and you left this note in their place!”

Sartiina rubbed his forehead. "Is anyone going to object to us kill Glathir before he kills us all?" There were a few objections, but most favored Satinia's idea.

"I have one request, if you're truly going to kill me." As the crowd turned to face him again, Glathir ripped off another board, revealing a sizable portion of the window. "Throw me out the window, please?"

Sartinia sighed, and then stepped forward to place one hand on Glathir's chest. "Fine. You know you're crazy, right?"

Glathir shrugged. "I just accepted the craziness inherent in the world. Now then. Let's go!" Before Sartinia could react, Glathir grabbed them both, and jumped. He shattered the window with his body, and both of them sailed out of the mansion, hitting the ground three stories below.

There was a splat, and the jingle of thousands of gold coins hitting pavement. The rest of the party goers gathered round the window to look at the corpses below.

"Maybe I shouldn’t have left the note." Adarjmei said.

---

Thanks Joe for the writeup!

The Only Joe in a Bush was lynched. He was a Dark Brotherhood Assassin. He had 1810 gold, an Iron Battle Axe, a Mage's Staff of Silence, a copy of 'Bible of the Deep Ones', and a Mysterious Note.
Sart was killed. He was a Guest. He had 55 gold, a Silver Ring, and Russet Felt Shoes.

Assassin and JUQ were granted free-passes, but did not make significant enough posts this cycle, and so lost those free passes. 

Vote Tally
Sart(3): Joe, Kipper, Kynedath
Joe(4): Nyali, Stick, Orlok, Sart

Loot Crate

Cycle ends in ~24 hours.

Player List

Cycle has ended.

8 hours ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

I'm going to Canada for a few weeks. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to access wifi but either way I won't be posting much. Would this kill me via inactivity?

Game shouldn't be going on for much longer. But if you're not posting, yeah, filter will kill you. Also, while I'll probably give you a free pass for letting me know, that will get used this turn if you don't post further this cycle.
 

1 hour ago, Kynedath said:

I know this isn't much, but I don't want to die from inactivity and this is the best I can do for now. Hael, does this count as a significant enough post to not die? If not, I'll see what I can do.

If you're voting, that counts as a contribution to the game.

Cycle 6 – Windowlost

 

---

Arinian was lynched. He was a Guest. He had 20 gold, a Dagger, and Pigskin Shoes.
Magestar was killed. He was a Guest. He had 92 gold, a Club, an Iron Warhammer, 2 Staffs, a Black Cowl, and Doeskin Shoes.
Stink lost the will to live. He was a Guest. He had 70 gold, a Leather Shield, and Chainmail Boots.

JUQ did not post and has lost their free pass.

Please note that posting about claiming items does not count as a game relevant post, and will in future result in losing your free post if it’s the only thing you do.

Vote Tally
Kynedath(2): Sart, Arinian
Arinian(5): Stick, Burnt, Magestar, Assassin, Joe
Sart(2): Kipper, Nyali

Loot Crate

Burnt Spaghetti takes all the shoes.

Cycle ends in ~24 hours.

Player List

Cycle has ended.

I've edited in that Stink also did not post last cycle and lost their free pass. 

@Magestar I think Russet Felt or Gold Trimmed shoes are the most likely shoes to match a black cowl. Or maybe leather boots? But of the 3, there's only a single Leather Boot in the Loot Crate.

Cycle 5 –

Writeup to come later - was out all this morning. 

---

Elenion was lynched. He was a Dark Brotherhood Assassin. He had 257 gold, 1 Bottle of Cheap Wine, a copy of ‘Myth or Menace’, Wrist Irons, Stitched Leather Shoes, 3 Tongs, and 2 Bottles of Mead.
Arraenae was killed. She was a Guest. She had 27 gold, a copy of ‘The Red Book of Riddles’, Oiled Linen Shoes, and 14 Paint Brushes.

Kynedath did not post and has lost their free pass.
OrlokTsubodai did not post and has lost their free pass.
Burnt Spaghetti did not post and has lost their free pass.
Stink did not post and has lost their free pass.

Please note that posting about claiming items does not count as a game relevant post, and will in future result in losing your free post if it’s the only thing you do.

Vote Tally
Stink(1): Elenion
Elenion(3): Magestar, Nyali, Stick
Nyali(1): Kipper
Joe(2): Sart, Arinian
Arinian(1): Rae
 

Loot Crate

Assassin gets Ebony Claymore and 5 Gold from Joe
Kynedath gets 4 lockpicks and 1192 gold.
Joe gets the ‘Bible of the Deep Ones’ and pays out 40 gold
Magestar gets the Black Cowl and 5 gold from Joe
Stick gets 10 gold
Sart gets 5 gold
Arinian gets 5 gold
JUQ gets 5 gold
Nyali gets 5 Gold

Cycle ends in ~23 hours.

Player List

Cycle has ended. 

Cycle 4 – Pain to Paint

Kjartan prowled the corridors, hunting for more evil. The Voice of Stendarr was silent again, but the Boot of Stendarr had a plan! The first piece of evil he had destroyed had been that sneaky painting. And then it had been the two cursed paintbrushes that he’d splintered into Oblivion. It had taken a while, but he made the connection! Paint! He needed to find paint! Or a painter! Or maybe a painted troll! He hoped it was the troll – they were habitually evil and fun to kill with Stendarr’s Toothpick.

He handed some cheese to Mus, who was perched on his shoulder. “Found any evil yet, Mus?” Mus just continued nibbling on the cheese. “Sorry, Kjartan is trying. These trolls are being stealthy…” And then he saw it. Rounding the corner, he saw the painting.  

There it was, a painting of a painted troll, hung at the end of the wall. Kjartan moved careful towards it. Mus saw it too, and skittered into his armour, squeaking. This was it. This was the Ultimate Evil. With a roar, he charged, preparing to Destroy with Stendarr’s Toothpick. And burst straight through the still wet canvas, and out of the window it had obscured. The ground rushing up to him, he worried about Mus. With Stub-Tail having died just earlier, the Voice of Stendarr would need a new protector. His last thought however was that at least that evil painting had been shown who was boss.

---

Alvron was lynched. He was a Guest. He had 61 gold, a Dagger, a copy of 'Macabre Manifest', Fur Boots, 4 Lockpicks, a Black Cowl, and 1 Bottle of Cheap Wine.
Kasimir was killed. He was a Guest. He had 30 gold, a Silver-capped Staff, an Ebony Claymore, a copy of ‘On Oblivion’, a copy of ‘Bible of the Deep Ones’, a Leather Boot, all the cheese.

Darkness Ascendant has lost the will to live. He was a Guest. He had 1 gold, and Sackcloth Sandals.
Master Elodin has lost the will to live. He was a Guest. He had 150 gold, 17 Dragon’s Tongue Flowers, 5 Lavender Sprigs, 2 Nightshade Flowers, 3 Fly Amanita Caps, and Buckled Shoes.

Kipper did not post and has lost their free pass.

Vote Tally
Stick(4): Sart, Arinian, JUQ, Assassin
Elenion(3): Nyali, Magestar, Alvron
Alvron(4): Kasimir, Stick, Elenion, Arraenae

Loot Crate

Elenion and Kynedath fight over the gold, but come to no agreement.
The Only Joe in the Bush takes the Mage's Staff of Silence.
Burnt takes the White Mage Shoes.
Magestar takes the Staff.

Cycle ends in ~23 hours.

Quicklinks

Player List

Cycle is over.

As far as I can tell, this is the vote tally - does that look right?
Vote Tally
Stink(0): Elenion{1}, Alvron{1}, Magestar{1}
Stick(4): Sart{1}, Arinian{1}, JUQ{1}, Assassin{1}
Elenion(3): Kasimir{1}, Nyali{1}, Magestar{2}, Alvron{2}
Alvron(4): Kasimir{2}, Stick{1}, Joe{1}, Elenion{2}, Arraenae{1}
 

28 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

Umm.. Free pass?

As the others have said, the inactivity filter kills players who don't meet my minimum requirements of activity (it's based on if you've posted any game discussion relevant comments and my perception of if you're trying to contribute, either by discussion or RP). But for a couple of reasons, I don't want to instantly kill people who don't post, so everyone has, for want of a better term, a 'free pass' which gets used up the first time you meet the conditions of the filter.

I think the only thing missing is the Soul Gem. I'll add it when I'm next on PC

I think I've said it would be a first come first serve thing, but I think it's fairer if everyone who wants stuff comes to an agreement of how it's shared.