Haelbarde

I'll spectate at the very least. I may play, but it'll depend on how prepared I am for an impending presentation by the start of the game.

Just because sometimes I throw comments out like "practice opsec/pm safety!", here's an example of what I mean, and why I try and be particular about how I present information.

I made this post L3D1:

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I was just having a look at that: Doc, Burnt, Coco, Mistfallen haven't died (well, neither have I or TwinStorm, but neither of us have been active enough to get a 50 rupee mask this loop). TUN and Wahr died Loop 1 but have been pretty active Loop 2, so could potentially bid on 50 rupee masks N1 if they get max rupees today.

Note that Doc had postmaster Loop 1 so would have gotten bonus cash. Burnt has claimed mask of scents L2 (not that it would prevent her from having achieved 50 rupees by now).

No one has claimed Bunny mask either loop. Dangerous candidates would be Doc (with Postmaster L1, and Bunny L2, that's on track for FD levels of money), Burnt (specifically claimed no mask Loop 1 but could be lying), Coco (from Loop 2, they claimed Bremen L1), giving them mega money, or it would be enough to put TUN, Wahr, Mist or myself into 50 rupee mask territory.  

(What is 'fun' is that while TUN and Wahr are confirmed village, of Doc, Burnt, Coco, Mist, and Hael, there must be at least 2 eliminators, possibly 3 >>)

This post L3N1:

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I do not have the Stone Mask. I did end up kinda close to being able to afford it but didn't have the funds last turn nor this turn.

And this post L3D2:

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In case it helps, these are my earnings across the game.

Loop A D1: 3, N1: 5, D2: 4, N2: 2, D3: 2, N3: 4; Total: 20 rupees
Loop B D1: 6, N1: 2, D2: 1, N2: 0, D3: 0, N3: 0; Total: 9 rupees
Loop C D1: 6, N1: 0; Total: 6 rupees
So with the 10 initial rupees, 39 rupees by start of Loop C, or 45 rupees at start of N1-C. Now, I feel like I could have argued more rupees out of Aman, so if you wanted to verify those numbers against my posts, you might find that there's some posts that could potentially have earned rupees that didn't end up earning me any. The only PMs I've sent this game were the three last night.

I suggest in the first that it wasn't impossible for me to get to 50 rupees though I didn't have the activity. I state in the second that I did not have the Stone Mask, and reference being close to affording it. And in the third I list all of my rupee earnings.

I did not claim to have not purchased any mask, nor did I claim to have 45 rupees in pocket by the start of N1-C. The L3N1 post might imply I had been saving rather than spending by saying I was kinda close, but I was referencing the hypothetical max rupee counts I had discussed in the first post.

That's not how the elims read those posts however (from L3N2):

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Hael has nothing 

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Hael might have more he said he was close to 50. 
Yeah, hael and Twin def did not get any masks. Hael claimed during N1 that he had 40-something rupees, so I doubt he bought anything D1. Yup all blues and reds were gone post-D1 so hael has nothing rn 

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What are the chances u even get tracked tonight? Probably not that big, except for if drake specifically has scents. A confirmed Villa will probably not waste a track on u. Hael shouldn’t have a mask unless he’s lying, so he doesn’t have don gero which means u ‘scanning’ him shouldn’t alert him or anything 

I didn't lie about anything but I managed to mislead the elims, albeit unintentionally, by only sharing the necessary details (in this case, whether there was a possibility of me affording a mask) and not filling in every detail (liking having the Captain's Hat L3 or Don Gero L2, both ruling me out of being the L3 Don Gero holder).

I thought the same thing  Aman had said he was going to do a cool scene for Link. There was a cool scene, but then an explosion the same turn the other Goron died, so I accused Aman of thinking all Goron's looked the same. He clarified that it was intended to be my Goron, and that the captain's actions were to save his life. 

I went to check that I'd probably pulled the idea of names having teeth coming from Schlock Mercenary's 70 Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries, and while it was (maxim 16), a lot of the other maxims felt appropriate to this game or SE in general

• 5. Close air support and friendly fire should be easier to tell apart. (the Stick/Coco exe)
• 16. Your name is in the mouth of others: be sure it has teeth.
• 17. The longer everything goes according to plan, the bigger the impending disaster. (L3D3 for the elims)
• 19. The world is richer when you turn enemies into friends, but that's not the same as you being richer. (something something rupees)
• 20. If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win. (the elims every turn)
• 30. A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
• 35. That which does not kill you has made a tactical error. (the elims regarding me)
• 40. Not all good news is enemy action. (so many scan claims )
• 42. "They'll never expect this" means "I want to try something stupid." 
• 43. If it's stupid and it works, it's still stupid and you're lucky.
• 47. Don't expect the enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement.
• 66. Necessity is the mother of deception.

Just now, coco.pudding said:

Yeah I was doing a lot of math. Especially rupee math. And parity stuff too actually. I was hoping that might get yall to trust me a little more  

Mission accomplished

I'm glad to know that despite my long absence my name still has teeth

39 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

I have been informed that you were having painful real life things happening when I accused you  Soz

Also my original plan was to v!clear you so we could direct the exe at someone in the dead pool but someone had to had the Captains Hat and warned the thread about Stick  

So really, it's your own fault I had to accuse you of being elim  

All good. The painful things happened during N3 so we'd already resolved the stressful turn. 

And to be honest, if not for the e!scan on me I'd probably not sus'd you. I probably wouldn't have bothered to work out the Keaton thing either.

Would it help to know that I originally did not bid for the Captain's mask? I was going to go for Bremen, and figured it would be better to leave the Captain's mask for a more engaged villager. It was only figuring that better an unengaged villager than the elims, and that it'd be nice to chill in a doc that I changed my bid to include and prioritise it. Apparently I was the only one to bid for it L3D1

I am sorry about the doc colour verification thing, though I'm pretty we would have been able to verify to TUM and Wahr's satisfaction regardless.

13 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

Coco and a bit of Burnt. Coco was instrumental in helping me math out my silver claim so it made sense  

Huh. I feel like Coco offered rupee Intel to us in the L3 dead doc. I didn't realise that would have been Intel straight from the Elim doc

1 minute ago, coco.pudding said:

I was saving for a silver and was the only one of us who could have gotten one

I did wonder, I just didn't want to believe

Docs now

Well played Coco.

Imma gonna need explanations for the entire Elim team killing Stick instead of e!Coco though 

6 minutes ago, Doc12 said:

Awww you guys! 

The problem with being so successfully evil in the past is that no one will ever trust me again in the future. Like now, when I'm actually village.  

Also, 

In honor of my most ardent supporter, Mistfallen Soldier (I love you man, I'm choosing to believe you still have faith in me) 

 

Bonus: 

While your alignment might have been questionable, your art has been nothing but good!

5 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

If y'all get three in a row before Friday I'll give you an extra bonus shot to try hitting the last one

This is meant to be getting less stressful, not more

1 minute ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

I’m thinking Twin for Elim #4 thoughts?

I honestly don't know. I'm fairly confident that it's between Coco and Twin, but I don't really remember all the reasons

I was pretty sure it's not Mist, but felt like I had an argument for each of Coco and Twin.

I think the argument for it being Twin is what I argued in this post where I look at the L2D3 execution.

Doc and Burnt get Stick executed instead of Coco. That feels like a decision to ensure there was an elim in the dead pool, so why save Coco if Coco was evil? Coco probably had the higher rupee count, so saving e!Coco meant they had a better shot of expensive masks than e!Stick did perhaps? 

The thing with e!Twin is that I'm then a little confused by the L3D2 execution.

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(6) Burnt: Drake, Araris, TJ, Archer, Divergent, Mistfallen,
(5) Twin: Doc, Warheit, Stick, Hael, Wonko, 
(1) Mistfallen: Burnt,  

Which devolved to just the votes on Twin because Burnt had the Stone Mask. Notably, Doc and Stick both vote out Twin.

If we look through the cycle, initially votes are settling on Burnt as the primary execution and Mist as the secondary

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Hael (0): Mist{1}
Mist (3): Doc{1}, Wonko{1}, Burnt{1}
Burnt (5): Mist{2}, Drake{1}, Araris{1}, TJ{1}, Stick{1}

Then Wonko shifts to Doc.

It's Doc in this post that shifts first to Twin, with 27 hours left in the cycle.

Wahr also adds a vote to Twin, and Archer adds to the Burnt train, followed by Divergent.

With 10 hours to go, the vote tally is:

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Hael (0): Mist{1}
Mist (1): Doc{1}, Wonko{1}, Burnt{1}
Burnt (7): Mist{2}, Drake{1}, Araris{1}, TJ{1}, Stick{1}, Archer{1}, Divergent{1}
Doc (1): Wonko{2}
Twin (2): Doc{2}, Wahr{1}

Shortly there after, Mist shifts to Twin from Burnt, and then Stick 3 hours later prompting Mist to move back to Burnt with 6 hours left on the clock.

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Hael (0): Mist{1}
Mist (1): Doc{1}, Wonko{1}, Burnt{1}
Burnt (6): Mist{2}, Drake{1}, Araris{1}, TJ{1}, Stick{1}, Archer{1}, Divergent{1}, Mist{4}
Doc (1): Wonko{2}
Twin (3): Doc{2}, Wahr{1}, Mist{3}, Stick{2}

I add my vote on Twin with 4 hours to go, and with 22 minutes to spare, Wonko shifts from Doc to Twin. 

TUM attempts to vote on Burnt, but it lands after Aman had closed cycle. 

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Hael (0): Mist{1}
Mist (1): Doc{1}, Wonko{1}, Burnt{1}
Burnt (6): Mist{2}, Drake{1}, Araris{1}, TJ{1}, Stick{1}, Archer{1}, Divergent{1}, Mist{4}
Doc (0): Wonko{2}
Twin (3): Doc{2}, Wahr{1}, Mist{3}, Stick{2}, Hael{1}, Wonko{3}

I haven't read through the actual arguments of that cycle to understand why Twin was the preferred side train over other alternatives, but purely based on the votes, Doc and Stick seem to get Twin killed when there might have been another alternative.

So yeah, I'm mostly just confused about where the last elim is. Of those two arguments, without having understood the arguments for the Twin execution, Coco seems slightly more sus, but they were actively contributing in the dead doc, so that makes me want to read them village...

Please don't make me decide

Okay, that's a relief. I was fairly confident about Stick, but I had some niggling doubts.

This one's easy though. 

Doc.

8 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

Again. Your numbers claim that some of your posts did not count towards your rupee count. I can’t verify that, meaning I can’t discount you from being able to afford Keaton

If you read my post, you don't have to verify whether my posts counted for rupees or not. If I did not post at all during L2N2, L2D3, L2N3, I cannot have achieved enough rupees for Keaton and Captains even if I got the rupee max every turn I did post. 

Which is why I then explored how how e!Hael with the Keaton mask instead of the Captain's Hat works:

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So for me to have the Keaton Mask, a living elim on D3 who is not Burnt has to have the Captain's hat and be doing some insane coordination with me. The elim pools from the result of L2 were <Drake/Stick>, <Hael, Doc, Burnt, Coco, Twin, Mist>. Burnt had stone, Drake, Coco, Twin were dead. The only other living elim candidates beyond Burnt and I were Stick and Doc.

Do you disagree that the only elim candidates living during L3D3 who could have collaborated with me by them having the Captain's Mask are Doc and Stick?

Do you disagree that Stick could not have had the Captain's Mask as I was still able to communicate with the dead during L3N3?

Do you disagree that if I had the Keaton Mask then I could only do so if Doc was the other eliminator with the Captain's Mask?

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

Ed1t: VC was 7-4 before any vote manip. Even if the vote shift was the other way around it would been 6-5 and Stick would have still died. There's nothing important here. 

I don't entirely agree.

• Araris, TJ, Stick, Wonko, Drake, Divergent, Archer all died L2 for the first time, so started L3 with 20.
• Ash died L1 & L2 so started L3 with 50.
• TUM, Wahr died L1, starting L2 with 20 rupees. Rupee max would have allowed for 50 rupees L3.
• Coco, Hael, Doc, Burnt, Mist, Twin had not died by L3D1

TUM and Wahr are confirmed villagers so have no reason to lie. Ash is too, but also died before the Keaton Mask was used, so doubly cannot have it.

Coco and Twin died before L3D3, plus Coco being executed before being able to buy anything L3D1 and Twin not having posted enough to have had much more than 20 rupees, if that, so neither could have purchased the Keaton mask.

Burnt provably had the Stone Mask, so unless we're saying Burnt had 100 rupees and purchased the Keaton mask L3N1 she didn't have it. Plus, wearing the Stone Mask would have made her unable to equip and use the Keaton mask.

That leaves Doc, Hael, and Mist.

Hael (me) was the least active of the three. My claimed rupee counts don't allow for me to have afforded it, but let's investigate the possibility that I am lying about my rupee income.

• If I made max rupees L1, I'd be at 40 going into L2.
• During L2, I did not post during N2, D3, N3, and I only posted once during D2. Even without checking my posts from D1/N1, My max potential earnings from L2 is 11 rupees, taking me to 51 rupees at the start of L3.
• Rupee max L3D1 could have gotten me to 61.

60 rupees does not win me Captain's + Keaton.

So for me to have the Keaton Mask, a living elim on D3 who is not Burnt has to have the Captain's hat and be doing some insane coordination with me. The elim pools from the result of L2 were <Drake/Stick>, <Hael, Doc, Burnt, Coco, Twin, Mist>. Burnt had stone, Drake, Coco, Twin were dead. The only other living elim candidates beyond Burnt and I were Stick and Doc.

If Doc's an elim paired with me, then the whole matter is kinda moot, and Doc is a safe vote. Or if this is a question of whether Doc had a silver mask, this world requires Doc to have the Captain's hat and so not the MoT/GFM.

The only other option is a Stick / Hael combo where Stick has the Captain's mask.

Which she verifiably did not. I was still active in the dead doc during N3 after her death, and if that fact has not already been verified, I am sure that Ash, Drake, and Coco can all confirm that for you.

So either I had the Captain's mask, or we are in a Doc / Hael world where Doc did not buy a silver mask. In that world, just execute Doc, and work out which of Stick or Drake is the elim.

So then, if I cannot have had the Keaton mask, we are left with Doc and Mist as the only candidates for Keaton's, so consequently either:

• Doc purchased the Keaton mask.
  • This means he cannot have purchased the GFM or the MoT
  • This means he must be lying about scanning me evil.
  • This means the elim plans for L3 were not based on the expectation of having a resurrection.
• Mist purchased the Keaton mask.
  • Given they are still claiming the Gibdo Mask this turn, suggests Mist is an elim.
    • This is the only world in which Doc possibly achieves a silver mask.
      • v!Doc gets MoT and scans me as an elim.
        • Agreed that this is the one world in which a Hael vote makes more sense than a Doc vote. But in this world Mist / Hael is e/e, so why does e!Mist insist on killing e!Hael over v!Doc? This strongly suggests we are not in this world.
      • e!Doc probably gets GFM
        • I don't see how Doc / Mist pairing doesn't get a NK off and win L3.

To summarise:

• The only world in which Hael does not have Captain's Hat is a Doc / Hael e/e world.
• Mist getting Keaton implies e!Mist and allows for v!Doc, but e!Mist would want v!Doc dead over Hael, so e!Mist implies e!Doc
• Otherwise, Doc is elim as he bought Keaton instead of a silver mask, and elims did not base L3 strategy around the GFM

So I guess, @Mistfallen Soldier, how about those numbers? As far as I can tell, any world where I am evil require Doc also to be evil, or you to be evil, and your only reasonable vote is on Doc. 

Edit 1: (Added the line about Wahr, TUM, and Ash being confirmed villagers after the initial set of dot points)

Edit 2:

I guess we may as resolve the Stick thing first at this point, and get back to Doc after.

I went back and checked and it does seem it was reasonable for Doc to have earned sufficient rupees.

The problem is someone bought it, it wasn't Burnt. So who had the funds and was alive L3D3? 

If there aren't any other candidates, it kinda has to be Doc, and the reason for no GF mask was he had purchased something bigger in a previous loop.

4 minutes ago, Stick. said:

neither doc nor I could’ve afforded Keaton so these teams make no sense 

There was never much doubt over Doc's ability to buy purple masks, only whether he could actually have afforded a silver mask which while I didn't really follow the conversation on I didn't think was conclusive, being based somewhat on PMs that may or may not have been sent. While I think an elim with 100 rupees tries to get the GF mask, an elim with 98 bids on the multiple cheaper masks to fight for the more achievable ones and then buys a 50 rupee mask N1.

3 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

The problem I see is that otherwise Doc has to have it, meaning he threw away a silver mask for scents. And the entire thing is weird. Currently my opinion is going for Twin for the final exe and avoiding the Hael/Doc thing

I thought you said numbers don't lie

2 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

I think you misunderstand what I’m saying, I don’t think you got scents loop 2, I think Stick did, and I think you got Keaton loop 3. You would’ve had the rupees by N1C. 

Right, I wasn't clear if you were saying I could have gotten Keaton or if I had gotten Scents earlier.

Again, per those rupee counts, I had at most 45 rupees at the start of L3N1, so not enough for Keaton even if someone else had purchased Don Gero loop 2 and Captain's Hat L3D1. So you're going to have to be real specific about which turns I should have earned more rupees to be able to justify where the 5 additional rupees came from.

And feel free to check with the dead but I was pretty sure there were some quick turnarounds from thread asking a question, the dead commenting on it, and then me posting their comments.

Trying to co-ordinate a different Elim pretending to be me in the dead doc and then giving me prewritten posts to copy and paste into thread within a matter of minutes seems quite a logistical challenge. I suppose it's not impossible, but it does also strain the limits of what is appropriate in terms of copying info from docs. 

26 minutes ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

Yeah. As Coco said, Stick couldn’t have had it. Plus no village is claiming Keaton, meaning an Elim must have it

I don’t think the reasons for why Doc would have scents are convincing, so I think Hael had to have had it(assuming you V!read me)

This was my rupee counts: 

While I had 30 rupees going into Loop 2, I purchased the Don Gero mask D1. The Mask of Scents was also purchased D1 that loop.

I suppose I could be lying about having Don Gero loop 2, but if I had purchased Mask of Scents L2D1 instead, I'd have had 10 rupees left and only earned 9 rupees that loop, so could not have purchased the Captain's Mask L3D1.

Edit:

Doc is certainly my preferred next vote, but I'm happy to shift to Stick first if necessary. 

1 hour ago, Burnt Spaghetti said:

Also i had forgotten that there was an actual owl in the games. 

I'm trying to remember if one of the songs you used to play was Kaepora Gaebora, because that was the name of the owl.

I do think that, looking back at Wonko's colour coded team spreads from the end of D3-C, I would be more inclined to believe Mist is village, and focus on just Coco/Twin in that last slot. 

In a Burnt / Doc / Stick world, the weirdest execution to me is Loop 2 Day 3:

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• (3) Stick: coco, Doc, Burnt, 
• (3) coco: Wahrheit, Mistfallen, Ashbringer,
• (1) Mistfallen: Stick, 

But I want to dig through it in a bit more detail to try and makes sense of things.

Multiple people claimed Blast Mask the night before, and just before the turn ended, Archer claimed Bremn and volunteers to target Araris to set off the Bomb Mask. This probably doesn't affect the elim's night kill of Drake, but could well affect their plans for D3/N3.

The dead are are TJ, Wonko, Drake, Divergent, leaving 12 players alive. Blast Maks presumably happens, so that'll leave 10 players. The execution in mandatory, so we're ending the loop with 8 or 9 players. Based on Burnt / <Doc/Hael> / <Stick/Drake> / <Mist/Coco/Twin>, there is only one player who could be a dead elim.

The possible outcomes then are: 

• 4:4
• 5:4
• 5:3
• 6:3

(Note: 6:2 and 7:2 are village wins)

All scenarios are an elim victory. So the elims have some options, because we will be able to tell that there will be two pools:

• 0-1 elims in the dead
• 3-4 elims in the survivors

There's a higher chance of executing an elim at random if they all survive, and even with the possiblity of an elim in the dead, I don't think it's hard to predict that thread would likely choose to focus on the survivors. So there's a good reason to ensure that the loop ends with 1 dead eliminator. 

The question is, did the elims night kill e!Drake before knowing that they were going to be winning the round with some amount of certainty? It feels unlikely, though possibly still is worth investigating, but I'll worry about that later.

What seems more likely is that Drake was a normal kill, and they are going into Day 3 wanting to have an elim die by the end of loop. So either they let/make the execution hit an elim, or they night kill one. I'd argue that the night kill would be the option that seems the most obvious, so I think it's reasonable to expect they might try confuse things by executing an elim instead. Plus, they ended up night killing one of the confirmed villagers, so we know they definitely didn't take that scenario.

So with all that in mind, what does the Day 3 execution look like if the elims might be angling to get one of them killed?

About halfway through the cycle this is the state of votes:

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Stick (0): Archer{1}, Mist{1}
Archer (1): Ash{1}
Coco (3): Wahr{1}, Doc{1}, Mist{2}
Twin (1): Archer{2}

Though there were some early votes on Stick, after Ash communicated the dead didn't care for her death, they came off, and instead we settle on a Coco execution.

About 13 hours before the end of cycle Stick throws a vote on Mist.
About 9 hours before the end of cycle, Araris votes on Stick.
About 8 hours before the end of cycle, Coco puts a vote on Stick rather than Mist or Twin.
About 5 hours before the end of cycle, Ashbringer shifts from Archer to Coco.

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Stick (2): Archer{1}, Mist{1}, Araris{1}, Coco{1}
Archer (0): Ash{1}
Coco (4): Wahr{1}, Doc{1}, Mist{2}, Ash{2}
Twin (1): Archer{2}
Mist (1): Stick{1}

10 minutes later, Doc shifts to Stick, tying up Coco and Stick (which presumably rupee estimates would have put Stick on the chopping block).

Hours later, 10 minutes before end of cycle, Burnt bumps Stick to 4 votes,
Then 2 minutes before end of cycle, Archer shifts from Twin to Stick, putting Stick on 5.

The final tally is:

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Stick (5): Archer{1}, Mist{1}, Araris{1}, Coco{1}, Doc{2}, Burnt{1}, Archer{3}
Archer (0): Ash{1}
Coco (3): Wahr{1}, Doc{1}, Mist{2}, Ash{2}
Twin (0): Archer{2}
Mist (1): Stick{1}

The resultant vote tally at the start of Night 3 was

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• (3) Stick: coco, Doc, Burnt, 
• (3) coco: Wahrheit, Mistfallen, Ashbringer,
• (1) Mistfallen: Stick, 

With Araris and Archer's votes missing as a result of dying. I'm unclear whether they knew their votes wouldn't count.

It would mean in practice we had Coco on 4, Stick on 1 (Coco's vote), before Doc and Burnt are the last people to act, changing Coco/Stick to a tied 3 votes each, where the fewest rupees held wins. 

Does this help any? I don't know. It saved Coco and killed Stick. 

If Drake was evil, they would want to avoid killing another elim, so e!Drake is paired with e!Coco.

If Drake was village, they could reasonably want to have an elim die. In this world, v!Coco, e!Stick.

So at least for me, I think the two possible worlds are:

• Burnt / Doc / Stick / Twin
• Burnt / Doc / Drake / Coco

And I would lean towards the first.

In terms of other candidates for execution, I think we are agreed on Drake/Stick and Doc/Hael.

This means that we have:

Villagers: Ash, Wahr, TUM, Archer, Wonko, Divergent, TJ, Araris

Elims: Burnt / <Doc/Hael> / <Stick/Drake> / <Coco/Mist/Twin>

The only person I am 100% certain of is evil in those pairs is Doc. Stick was certainly the better decision than me last round, and I would tend to believe Drake but I cannot be certain. I admit to remaining confused about Coco, Mist and Twin. Mist has had some very weird interactions, particularly at the end of last cycle, while looking at past executions Coco doesn't necessarily look great. 

Seeing as the masks are no longer in play, would people be open to claiming what masks they had, and what actions they took, if relevant?

I said this in the dead doc last night, but I had the Don Gero mask during loop 2 - no one targeted me with anything that entire loop.

I guess I'd be particularly interested in where the Bunny, Scents, and Romani masks ended up last loop, as I don't think there were claims in thread regarding that, and they were definitely purchased D1.

15 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

No one was removed. Link's Zealots won Gyorg's Mask.

@coco.pudding, @Ashbringer, @TwinStorm, @DrakeMarshall, and @Stick. have been resurrected.

When a player reaches 10 votes, I will flip them immediately.

NGL, I forgot for the second time that I wasn't dead last loop and was confused when looking at the list. 

It does feel like we may as well get easiest one out of the way. Apologies Burnt.

6 hours ago, |TJ| said:

The question is, why would Doc lie? Every action and his behaviour from the start of the Loop has been very consistent with buying a 100 rupee Mask. If he is evil, he just Resurrects an elim N3 without revealing anything. We were exeing Hael anyway. Realistically, no one was exeing Doc even though Wonko had a vote on him. It was always going to be Stick or Hael. Now, we can make sure there's contingency if Doc is lying with @Wahrheitswächter Bremen-blocking Doc to prevent a possible Resurrection. Doc should not have any problem with it because there's only 1 Alignment Scan per game. 

So, I think this is one scan we do believe, imo. We figure out whatever is wrong with the whole Hael/Drake/Stick thing later. It is possible Hael/Drake/Coco/Burnt e/e. I do remember thinking Drake kill was weird in Loop 2. 

Why wouldn't Doc lie?

The elims have two wins already, and so he sets up a situation where he gives a "scan" Night 2 that he can give the results of on Day 3. He lets confirmed village pick the target but so what?

- They pick a villager, Doc says they scan as evil and the elims get their misexecution.

- They pick an Elim and Doc says they scan as good, and the Elims get their misexecutiom.

Either way, they get a misexecution, which we cannot immediately identify because it's flipless and when they win the round and thus the game it's kinda too late for Wahr and TUM to go "oh no, Doc lied, we are so sorry everyone".

Here are the facts.

- It is clear that there is an elim in Doc/Hael

- It is clear that there is an elim in Stick/Drake (incidentally clearing the rest of the Day 2 dead pool: you are welcome Araris, Archer, TJ, Divergent, and Wonko)

- I have twice, to the satisfaction of the two living hard confirmed villagers, verified that I am in communication with the dead doc and have their continued cooperation and I am fully prepared to verify that further (they are quite irate with you all)

- Ashbringer, the third confirmed villager, has verified that Drake claimed Don Gero being targeted by Stick.

- This claim is thus independent from the question of my own alignment.

- Multiple players have commented they can see no reason E!Drake would night kill himself to do this

- No player has counter claimed Don Gero

- The strength of my position with the dead doc should put me at least on par with Doc in terms of any confidence you have in either of us.

The consequence of all that is that the matter of Doc/Hael is something that can probably be left to Loop 4 to resolve if we get one. Seeing a resurrection proves Doc is lying, and when the dead come back in the next loop, they can be irate for themselves.

The matter of Stick/Drake is much easier to resolve, and is much clearer weighted towards  e!Stick. And if you cannot see that, I cannot help you further.

I am kinda sick of stressing about all this and shouting into the void. So outside of RP and passing on any notes from the dead, this might be it from me.

It is obvious the eliminators have been under little stress this game. They have thrashed us. They won the first two rounds seemingly with little difficulty.

They are devious and they are active. They came into this loop having made the questionable decision to kill Ash a third time just so that Burnt could fake claim having scanned Mist having night killed. Why would they do that, not yet having the Stone mask if they weren't confident they would be fine without it? The Great Fairy Mask, which only Doc could get, certainly provides a compelling answer.

My final thing for you to consider is why would I bother doing any of this?

I have been disengaged, struggling with player reads, inactive for half of loop 2, and mostly just RPing by myself when I do happen to be around. I just wanted to keep RPing and have some fun chatting in the dead doc, particular after assuming that we probably has already lost. This is not what I wanted to be doing this turn. 

Why would the eliminators choose one of the least active players to suddenly activate to do some kayana plan to truthfully echo the dead doc? It makes no sense and y'all have said as much. 

Why would Ash, who I believe had directed you to focus on me just prior to dying choose to continue to verify my claims about the dead doc?

Just reiterating that you are all free to ask the dead doc questions. Feel free to ask them about their opinions on thread and we can probably get Ash to verify my answers for a third time.

1 hour ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

@Haelbarde

Ask Ash what Docs Codeword was from the PM with the Instructions for Burnt and Doc he send me. N1C

Surprisingly difficult to work out how to convey without saying the word. It's a military rank, and it's got two different pronunciations of the first syllable. The rest of it sounds like the word for a renter, but the first is sometimes said like the opposite of the direction right. The other way to say it sounds like a three letter word for toilet.

Ash does think that it might be better to refer to part of that message not directly relating to the code.

2 hours ago, Mistfallen Soldier said:

yeah, agreed. That means, Hael and Burnt are Elim. Considering that Ash was willing to share info with Hael, I think we can say Stick is Elim?

With E!Hael, I can’t think of a reason to share the dead doc’s thinking. Maybe in case they lost the loop? Which means at least one of Coco/Twin is Elim. Otherwise there’s no reason to try to get dead doc goodwill.

And he must’ve been sharing it somewhat accurately otherwise he wouldn’t have had access to the info Ash had.

That means that Drake did claim that Stick targeted him. And since Drake being Elim doesn’t make sense, Stick is Elim. So we have a Stick/(Coco/Twin)/Hael/Burnt Elim team.

what I can’t figure out is why share the dead doc. If they have only one Elim in the dead doc there’s no reason to share. If they have two, that means Coco and Twin are Elims, and they’re going to lose anyways, so they have to get goodwill, but then that gives us a 5 Elims.

So… we can’t be winning right now, so we need to exe Hael today. But I’m not sure why Hael is doing what Hael is doing because it doesn’t make sense. Thoughts?

If you can't make sense of why E!Hael is doing this, maybe V!Hael is the decision. But if you believe Stick is evil regardless, for what reason do I need to die over Stick?

Edit:

Link was not convinced that boats were real even as he huddled in the centre of one. That it hadn't sunk seemed less plausible than reliving the same 3 days for the second time, or the moon falling towards Clock Town. He eyed the water level as it lapped near the edge of the boat's upper edge, occasionally spilling in.This had to be the most insane thing he had done.

Hugging his pack in front of him, he pulled it open, rummage through, pulling out a bottle of Romani milk that he had managed to acquire before they had left Clock Town. The thought of eating or drinking while already nauseous from the unsteady rocking of the boat threatened to make him reempty his stomach, but that wasn't why he'd retrieved the bottle. Uncorking it, he unsteadily held it out over the side of the boat and emptied the bottle, managing to do so without capsizing the whole thing. Waving it through the air gingerly, he swiftly recorked the bottle. Closing his pack back up, he continued to clasp the bottled air, a little of the tension draining out of him. When he inevitably sank to the bottom of the ocean, he was at least somewhat prepared.

...

The turtle rose, and so did the pirate ghosts. The Happy Mask Salesman died before they knew what was happening. Chaos erupted. Link just clutched his pack tighter. Just being here, stepping on to the boat had already used up all the bravery he had to offer. Maybe if he didn't see them, they wouldn't see him. He tried to curl up. It would have been easier if something sharp in his pack didn't keep poking into him. 

Wait, what was sharp in his pack? 

... the mask.

He remembered. Commander Viscan, warned by others more familiar to him, when coming to respond to the ruckus Link had caused with the cultists in the gate guards had sent him on to the Happy Mask Salesman to gather with the others who remembered. As they organised, the Salesman had traded for some of his mask (still charging full price despite the circumstances), before securing the rest. He hadn't know what they were all for, so he'd just pointed at one with a toothy goofy grin reminiscent of some Goron he knew, and asked the price. He had the coin for it, so he'd purchased it. 

As they traveled, he had asked the merchant about it. He had mentioned that the mask, the Captain's Hat had been said to grant some influence over the dead, being bequeathed to the Hero of Time by a dead leader of warriors. 

He scrabbled for the packs opening, the bottled air forgotten in the moment as it dropped from his hands. He pulled out the mask, hesitating for a few moments as he considered the weirdly skeletal 'hat'. But there was nothing else. 

The hat covering his face, he cried out "just leave me alone!", willing with all his might that these spectral pirates would do just that, acceding to what power, if any, the hat had.