snote

Okay, this is only an abstract thought at the moment and a simple realization that I would like input on. So, thank you for taking the time to read/reply to my non-sense. Alright, during the events of WoR we find out that the Everstorm is caused by Parshendi soldiers being forced to take on Storm Form. The reason the Storm Form was ordered to be used was because of the humans taking a more offensive and aggressive stance. The reason they took a more aggressive stance was because the peace treaty talks broke down. The reason that broke down was because Eshonai took on Storm Form which made her more hateful and less peaceful herself. The reason for this was because she took on the risk of the new form her sister had researched, which was researched because of the war. The war was started because of the death of King Gavilar. Who was apparently assassinated by the Parshendi in hopes it would prevent his plan to return the old gods. The reason he wanted to return the old gods is because he was seemingly having the same visions Dalinar is now. Which in those visions, he was warned of the coming desolation and the Everstorm. The reason I repeat all this, which most of you likely know. Is because if you trace the steps backwards, it becomes clear. If the Almighty or Stormfather hadn't pressed the visions on the Kholin family. They never would have walked blindly into the steps that cause the Everstorm in the first place. They would have forgone their wanderlust and vengeance (most likely, though we will need Dalinar and Eshonai's books to understand exactly what caused their meeting.) and never pushed over the domino that brings about the next Desolation. It is pure speculation that they wouldn't cause one at all. What isn't speculation, is that if the numbers don't appear in Dalinar's room, with his already heightened suspicion from the visions. He doesn't form his expedition and doesn't force the Parshendi's hand to act aggressively themselves. I don't know if these points are already out there or if I am missing something. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Never let reality get in the way of a good idea! That's my motto. Correct is a result not a process and other cliches!

Ya know, I never thought about that. It's a good interpretation. I know that it says in WoR that during some time "There were only 3 Bondsmith's in service to the thrones of Urithiru. Due to the nature of their spren, increasing their ranks, seemed a seditious act" or something like that. So, you could very well be right. Plus, Syl straight up says, "He is broken, Kaladin." in reference to the Stormfather. Good catch.

During the final vision of The Way of Kings, Dalinar hears the Almighty say, "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination. Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the shards that once they bore." I don't know if this is an argument for or against the OP's theory. It just seems like it may be important to note. As the first idea is clearly stated by the Almighty himself, but then he says "Speak again the ancient oaths" as if what he just said wasn't a part of them. It may just be the first ideal is a motto instead of an oath, as has already been mentioned. An ideal that is designed to make them a cohesive unit as opposed to ten different groups.

During a death rattle in The Way of Kings, someone says, "There once were three, but now 'The Broken One' reigns." I have a theory that there was some kind of agreement maybe even the Oathpact, that Honor, Cultivation, and Odium would sacrifice themselves to end their war. Instead of going through with it himself Odium just disperses a chunk of his shardic power and leaves him broken. The other two are left completely destroyed. I also think it could be battle damage he took or even the catalyst for the splintering he's done. Any thoughts? It is just such a specific thing to be called for it to be a simple nickname.

Harmony says at the end of HoA that he was searching for meaning to all that happened and a beginning if I remember right. Then he says that there is a wall he can't see past but was only able to come up with the word Adolnesium. So, he wasn't aware of it until he specifically went looking. I would imagine the same is true for the other shards. They don't focus outside themselves until things get calmed down or they are naturally inquisitive. So, I bet it isn't an innate bit of information that comes with shard possession.

True, and some of the Heralds seem downright malevolent in the main time our story is set.

The one I point out in the description is the Chasm Fiend, I imagine you are standing on the ground and looking at it head on. So, the number of legs would be hidden behind the front set.

The Way of Kings says at some point that the swords of the Heralds are used as the Glyphs for each order of Knights Radiant. That the Honorblades (I'll assume) are drawn there to label that order. Which leads me to look at the glyphs for the orders of Voidbringers. If you imagine you are looking at the symbol drawn in each of those from the right perspective, I can see a creature that fits the description of the different great shells throughout Roshar. Like the one that would correlate to the "Elsecaller" glyph on the Voidbringer chart has definite visuals that fit with the Chasm Fiend's we've seen. Anyone else think this makes sense?

I always like to think that Hoid is the champion of Knowledge or wisdom. He seems inclined to know everything he can. He seems like a master of gathering and disseminating information. I think Brandon is quoted with saying he is definitely not a Shard holder. Which means he is gaining his vast insight from somewhere. If he isn't the champion of one of those shards, it may be of Adonalsium itself. Since the power still exists throughout the cosmere, he is still somehow retaining its benefit.

In the audiobook. The dialogue between Ranarin and Kaladin, when Ranarin is asking to join Bridge 4. Ranarin makes the statement, "...they say the afterlife is a big battle to reclaim the Tranquiline Hills..." I am paraphrasing the exact wording. I just heard him say "hills" and wanted to point it out. I don't know if this is intentional. As I haven't heard any other reference to them being called "hills" instead of "halls" I figured I would point it out. I don't know if it appears in the text as well. I have only listened to the audiobook.

Someone says, "By Damnation's Eleventh name" in the same reverence as others do "The Almighty's Tenth name." Which leads me to believe that the number of Unmade might be 11. I also had a theory that each of the Ad Shards have a specific number. Like Preservation's was 16, Honor is 10, and Damnation is 11. I don't have any proof of this other than just guessing. It could very well be like someone said when I brought this up before, and that 16 is just the number of shards and therefore anything pertaining to them has a series of 16. 10 is also part of that in some way. In the real world, there is a form of Judaism that assigns numbers to biblical events. Like 3 is the number of God, 6 the number of man (since that's when he was created) and 6 repeated 3 times is man's attempting to usurp God, which is where we get 666. So, if Brandon had put something like this into the Cosmere it would be really interesting. I love numerological assignment. It is an interesting way to look at our world, Even if I don't put much stock in it as a form of divining meaning from the meaningless. I just think it a neat concept. Also, the 10 fools have names. They might not have been a group that existed alongside of each other historically. They might have been individuals that exemplify the concepts that the respective fool represented and been assigned to the group to teach children and society what not to do. Like a fairy tale or parable. I like the idea that they are a heraldic like group though. I'm pretty sure the 10 Fools are just cultural constructs designed to parallel/complement the Heralds in Vorin teachings. We also have WoB that while there is a fixed number of Unmade, that number is *not* 10.

It seems my theory was correct and almost obvious, lol. I never read the back of WoR because I only ever had the audiobook. I am glad that I was smart enough to put together something that is plainly stated on the book itself, lol. I appreciate you all taking the time to validate the claim I had made. I honestly just got to thinking about how every single one of the new KR members have had great loss in their lives. Shallan, Kaladin, Jasnah, Lift, and Dalinar. It just kinda clicked for me when I remembered "snapping" from Mistborn. I started thinking about it when Syl says, "Sometimes men can be fixed." when Kaladin tells her that he's broken. As if that was part of the process for becoming what he is. Without which he either wouldn't appreciate the power or couldn't attain it at all. I don't want anyone to think I am trying to state anything as my own conclusion or taking credit for anything. I honestly just have questions and want to know if the ideas I have are worth holding on to, or if they have a fatal flaw in their concept. So, thanks again. I appreciate all the replies.

I noticed while reading the SA books again that each of the characters that are KR or hopefuls have had a tortured past. In Mistborn you have to "snap" after a time or experience of great pain, usually. So, my thoughts on it lead me to think that maybe while you deal with this huge life issues. You lose a part of your soul in the spiritual realm, that then is replaced with the investiture ability of that area's shard. Any thoughts?

I have a theory that since Odium is referred to as "The Broken One" that he sacrificed part of himself in order to cause the shattering of Honor and Cultivation. That is why there are a finite number of Voidspren on Roshar. It's like they all claimed they would blow themselves up to make the world a better place and at the last minute Odium just threw a fire cracker instead of a nuke.

First of all, wow this thread got more popular than I expected. Second, thank you all for your input. When I made the thread it was solely based on the naming similarities and was just something that struck me out of the blue and wanted the input of the boards. I am not convinced it's true either. Just an erant thought. Though, that doesn't mean it's impossible. Wow, that is a great connection. I never expected this thread to give me a possible name of Cultivation. So, super duper thanks for that. We don't know how the whole shardic creation plays on the individual. For instance, the Stormfather calls the Parshendi "The Ancient Ones" though they are almost certain Voidbringers or part of the collective of things that are Voidbringers. So, does that mean that they are of Odium? If so, then why do they have honorable fighting characteristics as Kaladin mentions at the end of tWoK? Then you have Eshonai and the other members of the Parshendi actively avoiding the ancient forms that bring the return of their gods. Because they fear what it will do to them. So, my point from all of this is, just because Ryshadium act a certain way when hearing a song that creates a storm, doesn't mean that they aren't of Odium. Especially when we know that song was "Old of design" meaning that Voidbringers of the past likely had the option to do it themselves, but opted not to. Also, Sureblood could have been reacting to Adolin's own emotions. Animals, even intelligent ones, have a large amount of emotional empathy towards humans. Especially when they are tamed.

You mirrored my thoughts, Mathologist. It was something that just clicked in my mind as a possibility and I wanted others input. Thanks for the reply.

While packing a sword on your back does look awesome. It is highly impractical to draw. If you ever watch Game of Thrones. You'll notice you never see The Hound draw his sword on his back. It's always a cut then he's holding his blade. It's really awesome to see a stoic hero, sword sheathed and ready on his back. It just looks weird and awkward to draw a sword from that position. Especially if it's of a longer length. Your sheath would have to be loose on the bottom and you'd then have to drag the sword across your shoulder, it's just a mess. Anyways, I agree it would be bad chull.

I only ask because there are naming similarities to Atium and Preservation's metal that I can't remember the name of currently but it has the name of the Shardholder not the name of the shard. Rayse is the holder of Odium, I understand it's not a perfect transfer of letters but it certainly has a similarity. Any thoughts?

So, my question is, what portion of the investiture is carried genetically? Such as the amount present in Vin, and the Royal Family's hair changing ability from Warbreaker. I feel like that may find its way to SA. That each of the current KR hopefuls will have been descended from those of the former ranks. If you notice almost all of the current potential members are of a certain lineage. With Kaladin being the only exception. Though, my belief is that his mother is a one-eye by blood if not by eye color, or even is in full but uses the eye drops. How come the surgebinders are neither surges nor binders. Discuss amongst yourselves.

That's all. You can delete this now.

"I am a stick!" One question, stick. Mulch or fire? "I am a stick!" Wrong answer! *Fires up wood chipper* "Fire, fire fire fire fire fire!" Good call! "Stick!" "Neeeeraaawwww" said the woodchipper.

I lost whatever train of thought lead me, in order to bring that question up. I think I wanted to know what the core idea behind someone's "identity" was. Maybe how identity related to a Gold or Malatium image. Was one like "seen" self versus "perceived" self. Was one who you could be and one who you were? I enjoyed the Mistborn books, but they weren't something I devoured and overly consumed like I have done with the SA. I have either completely missed what the answers were to those questions or completely forgotten. lol. Thank you for taking the time to help me understand, though. I'm nothing, if not appreciative.

I do believe you're correct. I'd forgotten about Yasnah needing a Garnet, I think, to heal Shallan's poisoning. Because it was the correct stone to do blood casting. Which was also one of the ten essences. That hierarchy aside. Like when she said that blood wasn't the same as jam, "A paste made from a fruit, I've never before tasted." wasn't her expertise, because it was an "organic". That leads me to believe that the soulcaster has to hold the idea in their head when requesting the change. Meaning that you can't just tell the item you desire to change to become "X" thing. It has to be a thing like, something's "true essence" in the "Inheritance Cycle". It isn't just a matter of simply having an idea of something, but truly knowing it's every facet and nuance. That's why the goblet changed to blood for Shallan. She wasn't intending to make the goblet anything. Yet, she was holding the gemstone that's essence was blood. Like you mentioned.

I agree with you on this one. I think it is an interesting aspect of the story to explore. Which makes it even more appealing than just what you pointed out. In my mind, Syl hates lies with her nature. As I feel Cryptics are the same in reverse. They don't understand the "uptight" honorspren. They probably confuse them by their very principles. I know it says there is a hierarchy to the spren and we're only given a glimpse of the true nature of them thus far. So, it may turn out to be something more superficial or in depth. I just keep thinking of the bonded spren like the daemons from "His Dark Materials". Where any coitus would translate to the spren intertwining in a loving way. So, yeah, that's not gonna happen. The Hesina link was thoughtful. I agree I ramble often and easily. You definitely opened my eyes to your way of thinking on this one. After reading your story, I found myself remember similar events in my own life, where you're surrounded by people who think something, you find horrendous, is acceptable. So, you go from complacent, to indifferent, and finally to agreeable. I live in Kentucky. I was around racism my whole life. Being a random white kid, most of the friends I made came from racist families. I never felt at first like people were innately better or worse because of any reason, other than their character. I can confidently say that I feel like that now. Though, there were times in my grade school and middle school years that I don't know if that I can. I hate that I can't but you can't hide your mistakes and expect them to not be repeated. I can relate is what I'm getting at. I'm in my 30's now and I chalk it up to me being a stupid kid who just wanted to fit in. It in no way makes it right or acceptable. I never hurt anyone or said anything mean to anyone. I just was complacent in a behavior and form of speech I would feel disgusted hearing today. If that makes sense. I know this may be a little more intense than is appropriate for this discussion. I just felt like you sharing your experience deserved an honest reply.