Wyrmhero
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A clarification about children: During Generation 1, all children will develop Allomancy, due to the sheer strength of lerasium-based Mistborn. Indeed, all children born during this Generation - And hence all players in Generation 2 - will be Mistborn. This only applies to children born this Generation and people signing up for Generation 2. As the average Allomantic Strength decreases over the course of the game, Mistings will start to be born and Mistborn will become rarer, eventually reaching mythical levels of rarity.
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Oh, no offence taken from my part, at least, don't worry. I was slightly surprised, but not offended. I'm just amused that my dynamic entry vote was right . The deduction is as much Kas's as mine though, we spent ages bouncing ideas off each other about you and Karlin. Also, the Dula ship, we do not get shipped. I guess Hreo and Tulir now don't have any reason to complain about the 9-page PM Kas and I had in the course of one Night Turn, since it resulted in us picking off the Gyorn. I like the way he has flagged up three different people as Cultists. I mean, sure, it's possible, but is it likely we would have 7 (becoming 8) Eliminators in a 31 person game? Well, it's certainly possible, and probably moreso when they're on different teams. I'm curious though, Jain, why them? Seems to me you've just picked three players we weren't sure of. It's possible one of them's a Cultist, just by probability, but I suspect this is simply a distraction in order to give his Odiv a bit of a head-start after today while we look at three random people. The people I am cautious of as Odivs are luckat, Kas and Wilson. If it's Kas, then he would have to have been converted the previous Night, since we worked together to point Jain out and an Odiv would not do that. That doesn't mean he isn't now, Kas was somewhat hesitant to draw a bead on a Gyorn earlier in the thread today... I don't think any of these can be cleared as of yet. But the Odiv isn't too dangerous on his own, as conversions will be relatively slow. I think we can afford to wait a while before removing the rest of Shu-Dereth from the world. It's much more imperative we find the last few Cultists, as they remove a player from the game, rather than just marking them.
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I didn't know Wyrmhero studied philosophy! >> Next question then, for Meta (though the other two can certainly talk about expectations as well if they want): You introduced Mafia to this forum after playing and running several games elsewhere, so I would like to know how the metagame differs between here and Cracked. Is there anything very different that we do that they don't (or vice versa)? And did you expect these differences to form when you decided to run games on here?
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Thanks Wyrm >> Well, basically, this is the paradox, right? Let’s break it down like this: (S1) The Darkhound bites Mat. (S2) The DH’s biting Mat causes Rand to balefire that sucker, which erases the DH from the Pattern. (S3) But if the DH has been erased from the Pattern, then it never existed. (True by stipulation/definition—assume this was a particularly powerful stream of balefire.) (S4) The DH never existed. (S5) If the DH never existed, then it never bit Mat. (S6) The DH never bit Mat. Technically, I see what you’re angling for, but this way of doing it is sufficient to provide us with a paradox since (S1) and (S6) contradict each other. Adding statements about Rand never having balefired the DH just generates further contradictions. So, there are several ways to pick apart this reasoning. You’re probably not asking for my philosophical views on time and since I haven’t yet been able to do a class on the metaphysics of time, all I can really say is I’m likely to not be a presentist [=future and past do not exist, the only thing that is real is the here and now.] Not that that helps us out here much Now, the key challenge is how to resolve the paradox in a way consistent with Robert Jordan’s portrayal of things. In this case, I’d recommend the strategy employed by philosophers like Hanley (2004). Kind of goes like this: the key assumption needed to set up this paradox is the assumption that retrocausation (or even the possibility of it) sets up a causal loop. But guys like Hanley think that this is a problematic assumption and challenge this. So they say retrocausation does not entail a causal loop. (And if backwards causation can happen without forming causal loops, then (S1) and (S6) are not contradictory statements because both are not true at the same time.) Then, the paradox is dissolved and we WoT readers can get on with life
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Dulabros FTW! Kas and I are just that good. I felt that someone was definitely trying to save Jain the previous night. I'm not sure about it being Wilson (I accused Claincy earlier of that), but I would not be against her being checked again. I will have another look tomorrow when my computer is back on to see if anyone sticks out at me with regards to being the Odiv. Hreo, will we know if a faction is defeated?
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Your children will snap automatically. And you only need to worry about being deposed if your House REALLY hate you.
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That sounds more like a cause/effect physics question to me, so I think Wyrm can best answer that one!
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Generation 1: Turn 2 "It's wonderful, isn't it?" Tydan Queade asked, smiling to himself despite the somewhat precarious position he was in. There were no railings on the spires of Kredik Shaw, and a single slip could end with a very sudden impalement, something he wanted to avoid. "Just look at it..." "Your House has done well, Lord Queade," Rashek - The Lord Ruler - nodded in agreement. "My capital was not fit for us to live in barely five years ago, and now... Now it is truly a city fit for an emperor." "I can't take all of the praise," Lord Queade said, feigning modesty and embarrassment. "All of your Lords have done something similar. I merely thought about our people as much as the economy, my lord." "No... None of them have done anything quite so similar," The Lord Ruler replied, shaking his head. "Be wary, Lord Queade," he said, looking at his noble carefully and with deliberate slowness. A powerful soothing hit Lord Queade, though he did not realise what it was immediately. It cut through his coppercloud as though it wasn't even there. "I raised only you and the rest of my nobles to these lofty heights. These commoners, these 'skaa', as some have been calling them... If I discover a single one with my blessing, there will be a reckoning. Are we clear?" "Perfectly, my lord!" Lord Queade said, shaking his head. "Not a single dalliance will be had with them, by me or my descendants, I swear!" "I don't care if you dally," The Lord Ruler said, correcting him slightly on that point. "Well, if you or your sons dally. Ensure there are no fruits of such a union. Understood?" "...Understood, my lord," Lord Queade nodded. * "I'm going to make this very simple for you," Lord Erikell said, looking around at the ghastly huts these people called home. Their occupants either knelt before him, or were strewn across the ground, dead. "Whenever you harvest, you send the food to me. If you do not, I will come back and burn your village to the ground. Even skaa like you should be able to understand that." He smiled as they nodded. Well, onto the next village then. * Lady Elariel's grand ball was a huge success, and all of the new high society attended it, none of them quite sure of what to expect. They were wined and dined, and some attempt at dancing was made, though no-one was quite sure precisely what style they should be following these days. Khlennium was said to be the city to emulate, in the world that was, but considering it basically no longer existed... Still, an attempt was made, and many went away already planning their own opulent gestures. * One such noble was Lord Urbain, who had become somewhat despondent after Lady Elariel's proclamation, and set about organising his own, in a grand attempt to outdo her. Mostly, he just ended up annoying the other nobles with the bill to wipe away the graffiti he used as an invite. "What," he asked his constant companion, "is she doing here?" he pointed at Lady Elariel. "I believe she claimed that she was invited, my Lord," Find replied. "Someone must have invited her on our behalf." Lord Urbain merely grunted in response and took another whiskey from one of the trays making its way around the room. * Fadrex was once a grand city, before the end of the world. Now it was less grand, but it had still recovered well enough. A man who called himself King Fadrex, after the city, ruled there with passing competency. He was skilled in warfare, and had deep enough pockets to ensure the army was on his side. But he could never have prepared for this. Lord Tekiel struck the stone of the gate in front of him. King Fadrex would not have believed such a thing as a man soaring through the air was possible, if he had not seen it himself. Then, as though it were an extension of his own arm, Lord Tekiel drew the sword from his waist and cleaved it through two of his guards in one fell swoop. King Fadrex took a step back, drawing his own sword. He felt the sword move of its own accord, and then it shot out of his hand, sailing across the roads and buildings behind him. He was lucky not to be killed by such a motion. His luck did not last, however, as Lord Tekiel's sword then found itself in his throat. Lord Tekiel was rather pleased so far. The advance party - himself - had succeeded in its primary objective of striking down the enemy leader. The army was still there to deal with, however. But that was why he was not attacking the city alone. He couldn't defend himself against everything, after all. Time for the secondary objective. Lord Tekiel walked calmly over to the gears and levers that controlled the gate, brushing soldiers that rushed him aside and off the battlements with a simple steelpush. He took the chain in both of his hands and burnt pewter. Then he pulled the rusted chain apart, letting it slide from his hands. The gateway opened up, and his army stormed in. At its front were great hulking beasts, mockeries of humans that wore loincloths and carried large swords. Koloss, they were apparently called. Beasts that grew as far as their bodies let them, before collapsing under their own weight. They were horrendous creatures, and not for the first time since the Lord Ruler had sent some along with his army, he was glad that they were under his command. Regardless of what they looked like though, they were effective fighters, and made short work of the defenders, particularly when he jumped back into the fray himself. At the end of the day, sitting atop the former Lord Fadrex' throne, Lord Tekiel smiled to himself. The Lord Ruler would be pleased when he was gifted this city. * Fadrex is now a part of The Final Empire! The following canal trade routes have been built: Luthadel to Fadrex, Luthadel to Urteau, Luthadel to Central Dominance. The following road trade routes have been built: Luthadel to Urteau, Luthadel to Fadrex. Something to note: As The Final Empire expands, Upkeep costs will tend to lower, allowing you to increase the size of your financial empire over time. * The following children have been born: Cleo Venture (female), Adira Wilson (female), Kilvorn Pifferdoo (male), Retleh Uethorn (male), Mai Farrsolin (female), Valden Artorius (male), Scipio Tekiel (male), Lysander Elariel (male), Raynah Queade (female), Clofa Erikell (female), Koem Wair (male). * Wonko the Sane has dropped out of the game, for the time being. As he has taken no actions this Generation so far, I am removing his House from the list until he rejoins us. Generation 1 Player List * This Turn will end on Sunday the 21st of June, at 6 PM BST.
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Okay Claincy, thank you. I want to know whether or not Meta scanned Jain. If he did, then we know either way with regards to Jain. If he did not, then my vote will be going on Jain, because I really want to know why he was so eager to fight back. If he did check, and it turns out that Jain is innocent, then I will vote elsewhere.
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Of course we can. That's kind of two separate questions: What philosophy can do and why I went for it. For the latter, engineering was okay, but it wasn't making me happy. I was fine with solving catenary cable problems but I really wanted to look at our methods and understand why they work. But that's not what you do as an engineer: just 'shut up and calculate.' And in philosophy, I get to study all sorts of fields. For my recent philosophy of biology class, I had to read up and do a crash course in uni biology, cognitive science, neuroscience... For the former, philosophy studies the way we know things, assumptions and most importantly: what's rational. That matters in so many ways. It matters if we form our beliefs and claim to be rational but really aren't because we're reasoning in bad ways. (See: some popular arguments about religion.) Philosophy intersects with actual problems in other areas too. Interestingly, both philosophers and weather forecasters (and social scientists) are interested in how we should use methods like Brier scoring, or using p-values and what their weaknesses are. So it's kind of farther reaching than it might sound at first. And as for what my favourite SE character has been, I'd say my favourite is probably Kassel Erikell, He's a bit like me, and I really enjoyed being a part of House Urbain (as you can probably tell from my signature ). I also had Drax alongside him, even if Wyrm stole him from me just a bit >>. The end of his story, as it were, was also pretty much everything I wanted.
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Oh, I posted it as one of the tags on the Cycle you died on, followed by putting the joke in visually for your write-up. P
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Ah, glorious internet... So, commenting on the previous lynch, it does indeed appear that Karlin was just being completely inactive and unhelpful, rather than being deliberately malicious. I am however very concerned by the bandwagon on him. We had no proof of anything save what Jain said, so why in the world did we end up lynching him by a good half a dozen vote lead? I want to know what Meta discovered, but we don't have that info yet, so I won't hold back just because of that. I would also agree with Kas, that it's important we get to know just who is being attacked here, not just in case it allows us to cross someone off (which I doubt, to be honest), but because it tells us what the Eliminators are afraid of at the moment. If it was Meta, for example (which my money would be on), that suggests that he has some of them still in his sights, and they want to kill him before he can scan them. I still think Jain is suspicious, and if he is, then my second guess would be to look at Claincy, for placing the 'deciding' vote on him and tipping the balance away from Jain. It seems way too defensive for me, and could possibly hint at him trying to save his only other teammate. If you found him just 'suspicious', Claincy, why did you vote to kill? You barely even acknowledged Karlin's supposed guilt.
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I presume it will be RPed on here, but I dunno. Up to you guys, I guess. Also, my internet's working now, so the Cycle will indeed finish today at 6 PM BST as expected.
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Well, I'm Kasimir, best known on the Sanderson Elimination subforum for long posts explaining stuff, and being too willing to kill myself for the good of the team. I've recently branched out to memes though. All the memes. In RL, I do philosophy, which explains the posts that I *do* make in the other parts of the forum.The other handsome guy is Wyrmhero, a physicist from Britain, who has just finished his degree. Most people will recognise him from the Sanderson Elimination games as well, probably from one of the games that he's run. He's known for accusing people a lot and viciously attacking their defence. He also became King of Alethkar in one of his first games. He also plays board games and Magic: the Gathering.
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Or as Kashero and Wyrmimir if you prefer I'm Kas, philosophy student and SE player, and answering questions with me is Wyrmhero, physicist and backstabber extraordinare. We are here to finally answer the thousands of questions you have for us, and to save time, we thought we might as well do it together. Feel free to ask us about Sanderson Elimination, Wyrmhero's Heirs to the Final Empire game, Sanderson's books, games of any kind, being Dulabros, university, or the art of trolling!
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I have a question for you guys: Gamma, which of the other two mods do you like best? Wilson, who do you prefer out of Gamma and Meta? And then the same question to Meta, who do you prefer out of Gamma and Meta? [5 marks] If that's too hard for you guys to answer, then I guess I have a separate question: If you could replay any game you've played, what game would you play again, and what would you do differently? Also, which of you do I get to kill... I mean... Which of you is sitting out in my next game?
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I can see it, Araris. I've been reading along when possible on my phone, just very rarely - And its all but impossible to make a long post. As such, I am going to extend this Cycle one more day, until Monday at 6. Hopefully the guys looking at it will have fixed it then. If not, I'm going to despair, let you guys know what is going on, then get back to fixing it.
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Glad to see we've finally gotten some useful information out of this, though whether or not it links to any suspicious behaviour on Karlin's end is really a bit iffy. I am heavily doubtful that any Cultist with a Seon would not use it, or at least would not gift it to on of their allies. They had Winter's, true, but two conversation pieces are always better than one, particularly when we wouldn't be able to say 'well, let's list all the Seons and only look at those guys' if there are two. As such, if anything, I would expect Karlin to be the Gyorn if anything, which would explain the lack of contact due to not wanting to bring attention onto himself. I do find his apparent disappearance from the thread suspicious, particularly now when he is only around to answer a single point before disappearing, but annoyingly enough, it's not odd. Last time Karlin was an Eliminator, he was very inactive, and in the last game I GMed, he came back just for one Cycle to avoid dying. So far, the votes are looking like this: Jain (3) - Wyrmhero, Kasimir, Araris Valerian Karlin (3) - little wilson, Seonid, Haelbarde Wyrm (1) - Jain Luckat (1) - twelthrootoftwo I'm still very curious as to the strength of your fighting back there. Sure, if you're innocent you should argue your case, but it does feel over-the-top. I'm not really putting you in a paradoxical position here, because while yes, I might think the same no matter the player, that's not the only evidence I am using. Do I think you would bounce ideas off the thread if you were the Gyorn? I think you would, since there's precedent from you. And generally when you're an Eliminator, you draw attention to the fact that you're not (though I would have expected you to no longer do that). So what you're saying is that the only way for us to get information about you is to already have conclusions that we have reached, then come to you and accuse you of them? Hmm... No, I don't quite get that. If you want us to find you less suspicious, then you have to be one of the people who contributes information, rather than one who we have to prod and poke to take part. Hell, that goes for the vast majority of players in this game, sad to say...
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I withheld my reasoning at first because I wanted to see the reaction for such a vote, and I wasn't disappointed. You've definitely come out of your corner swinging there, and it does seem to me to be just a tad overdone. And yes, it was always me accusing you. Kas decided on his own that I had a point after I mentioned that I would throw a vote on you. As for whether or not the strategy the Gyorn followed is the one you suggested, that doesn't actually prove anything either way. A Gyorn could follow it or not follow it and it wouldn't prove anything about you being it. I don't think you're quite as lolrandom as you claim. I've seen you play as an Eliminator before, and you thought about things, you didn't just go 'I guess I'll go after you because idk'. The strategy the Gyorn is following is simple, but very effective. Everyone here is able to strategise 'go after quiet people/then go after confirmed innocents to break the Village up'. Saying you'd play YOLOGyorn is not something I believe. Let's get something clear here though: I'm not accusing you of wanting to get discussion. Everyone should be wanting that, after all. I'm accusing you of wanting reactionary discussion. You don't want to talk about things, it seems, you want to be questioned and then to defend yourself - Something which is very easy to do if you only ever act defensively and thus have nothing 'suspicious' about you. If you wanted to truly promote discussion, you'd do like I am doing, and go after people rather than waiting and sitting back until something happens to you. I definitely find you suspicious still.
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Don't worry Hreo. I am Wyrm here, and Kasimir is Kas here. I've been in the situation of a GM having to deal with changing names before... (which is also why we didn't exchange names too). Simple. I find you incredibly suspicious. Multiple times you have attempted to strategise in the thread about what the Gyorn would do, which to me sounds as though you're bouncing ideas off people in the thread just because you have no-one to do that with on your team. You've always covered it up with 'but why would I do exactly what I've just said if I was the Gyorn?' and my answer is 'because having just told us that, you expect suspicion to shift'. That is why I think you are specifically the Gyorn, rather than a Cultist. You also kept talking about how boring it was on your side (of things) and that there was a lack of discussion coming your way. Well, discussion begins at home, and people who want discussion thrown their way seem to me to be Eliminators; it's incredibly easy to complain about discussion, but harder to generate it, so that strikes me as a cheap shot. And then you've also voted for me as a response vote. That's not a helpful response. I cannot be the Gyorn as I am (almost 100%) confirmed to be a Dula with Kas's vote last Day Turn. I cannot be the Odiv, as I have not been converted. The only thing I could now be is one of the remaining Cultists. This is possible, but unlikely - There have been no paired deaths due to Lovers so far. Either I'm playing a very long game, or I am quite simply innocent. So either your vote is just reactionary, designed to confuse, or you haven't been paying the greatest attention, which seems wrong considering you asked for more discussion and have been making strategies. For all these reasons, and potentially more, I am accusing you of being the Gyorn, Jain.
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I don't think I'm implying it, I think I'm being pretty blatant in my accusation
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Well, you could tell us why you went for Zas at the first opportunity, out of all the possible players you could've chosen. I'm rather curious about that.
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You can cancel and change Actions as many times as you'd like, right up until the end of the Turn.
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The one Seonid refered to just a little earlier.
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Your players begin married in the first Generation, unless otherwise stated. So you don't need to make a marriage pact this early in the game.