Khmauv

This gets me wondering what would happen if you backed yourself against a cliff and steel pushed against another immovable object. Could you theoretical crush yourself?

Seems to me that you could just set your ship on the right course get going as fast as possible then compound cadmium as much as possible and you would get a similar affect. You wouldn't travel any faster relative to the outside observers but you would still be traversing long swathes of space in a what felt to you as a short amount of time. Unless the trip required you arrive quickly relative to outside observers this would be just as feasible and less complicated to perform. though I wouldn't categorize it as FTL.

I wonder if you could vary the bubble your copper cloud enveloped. Could you produce a cloud directly around your person that effects only yourself?

I am unfamiliar with WoB. Care to explain?

That is entirely my point. Her weight is irrelevant to her strength. Do you mean to tell me that if an allomancer is anchored against a house the mass of the house makes their pushes stronger? The anchor doesn't add strength but focuses the strength into the pushing the object instead of the allomancer. Corrected! And you are right it is not worth getting worked up over. But did you follow any of my previous post? I can simplify it for you if want. Let's use the example of you pushing two boxes in opposite directions. One box is twice as heavy as the other. The lighter box will move more than the heavier box. Now imagine if you wanted to keep pushing them. Where would you move? the answer...toward the lighter box. The same would happen to wax if he pushed out in all directions equally. He and the lighter objects would be pushed away from the heavier objects. If they were dispersed around him evenly he would not move because all forces would balance. Outside of that perfect scenario he would be pushed one way. Making himself significantly heavier than the objects he is pushing would make this reaction force on him less significant. edit: punctuation for clarity

Exactly. According to Newton Force is equal to the product of mass and acceleration. F=m*a. that means that m1*a1=m2*a2 rearrange and m1/m2=a2/a1 or a1 = m2*a2/m1. Lets say that Wax is object 1 and a train car is object 2. That means that the acceleration of wax is inversely proportional to the the ratio of wax's weight to that of the train. for the sake of aurgument lets say the train car is 20 times the mass of wax. then we can say that m2 = 20*m1. we can then state that a1 = (20*m1)*a2/m1 = 20*a2. In laymans terms wax will acclerate away 20 times faster than the train. If he increased his weight however so that his weight matched that of the train. then we could say m1=m2 therefore a1=m1*a2/m1=a2. meaning their accelerations would be the same. If he made himself heavier than the train, the train would accelerate away faster than he would. edited: Inversely proportional is more accurate than directly proportional. snide remark redacted

Let me pull from your own quotes. they are consistent with my theory. In each example he is using his weight to anchor his pushes. yes the force he outputs is the same but the reaction force from objects is different. Try this. sit in your chair and push as hard as you can against the air. Observe what happens. Now push with the same force against your desk. Observe what happens. Yes they were pitting their strength against each other. In that regard she is strong. But what decided the outcome of their push match? Vins Anchor wasn't as strong and the tree broke. With similar anchors you are comparing allomatic strength. With only your weight as an anchor you compare anchors. If you push a wall what moves? You do. because the wall is more firmly anchored. Since you moved it doesn't mean the wall pushed you.

You're assuming that object around him would balance in weight. What would happen if he pushed out in all directions but one direction has a larger object than any other direction?

I fail to see the consistency. Kelsier teaches her that if the object is bigger than you you will be pulled to it, and if you are bigger it will be pulled to you. This is a parallel to the real world. This directly counters what your argument. Yes it is allomantic strength we are discussing is it not?

Yes his ability to push grew NOT his strength to push. He made himself a more firm anchor.

I have seen a reoccurring theme in these forums in regard to the relationship between steel pushing/iron puling and weight. I am hoping I can dispel some confusion on the matter. I am hoping you can forgive me if I quote the book incorrectly I am transcribing from the audiobooks(Don't judge me. I drive a lot.) and don't have the texts to reference. I believe this whole idea comes from when Kelsier was training Vin. After they get in a pushing match. Kelsier Tells her, This I think has been interpreted to mean than heavier people have a stronger push. If you look to their first training session Kelsier has already explained quite clearly that is has to do with action and reaction. After Kelsier tells Vin not to get in a push matches, Vin recalls this earlier lesson and reasons, The reason for not getting into a push match with someone heavier is NOT because they are stronger pushers but because their body is a better anchor. Summary: weight has nothing to do with steel pushing strength. edit: added quote boxes

II agree that this SHOULD be the case. I also think that Brandon intends for this to be the case but some of the Duralumin fueled pushes seem to violate this law. The time that Vin jumps off the Luthadel walls to save Breeze and trips up all the horses by pushing on their horse shoes. I suppose it wouldn't take much to just make them stumble but it still seems like a lot to push on at once.

I believe there is a miss-understanding here. Being heavier doesn't make your pushes/pulls stronger but helps give you a stronger foundation to push from. Imagine yourself between 2 large containers one half the weight of the other, you acting as the force in between push on both. Which will move first? I think this is the mechanism that Kelsier was trying to teach Vin.

Anyone recall a reference to the height of the walls around Luthadel? As I recall Vin was hovering right near the top. Assuming earth gravity of 9.81 m/s^2 and assuming Vin to be roughly 45 Kg (she is quite small) 445 N at the distance of one Luthadel wall height unit. Not quite the 1500 N figured earlier but that would give us an idea of how the Force diminishes with distance.

That's right, I had forgotten. Still, I think it would be interesting to have a tin twin born getting a compounded compounding effect. Store sight, then burn it gaining compounded sight + the increased senses of a tin eye.

Where do we learn that from? To my recollection, I have not read anything that suggests there is a limit to how much a metal mind can store.

So when compounding you don't burn the metal itself but the feruchemical storage only? Or do you burn the metal AND the feruchemical storage. If you burn both do you also have the effects of both or just the feruchemical effect? For example, if you burned gold storing health would you see your other possible lives and heal simultaneously?

By way of disclaimer I will not comment on advantages of specialized guns nor will I include them in my analysis. With that out of the way...the way I see it, the effectiveness of a coinshot over a gun wielder is largely dependent on the skill of the coinshot, but a skilled coinshot could potentially outperform a gun. There are some things that come into play that I am uncertain about. First, the energy imparted to the target is a function of mass and velocity. The relationship is the product of mass and velocity squared (E = m*V^2). The velocity, being squared, plays a more prominent role than mass. In other words, higher velocity of a smaller mass can easily impart more energy on a target. A bullet will have all of its energy imparted when the bullet is fired. It's energy will only decrease with distance, and is determined by the caliber of bullet and the amount of powder that can be packed in behind it. A coinshot can continually add energy to the projectile making it more like a rocket than a bullet. Depending on the distance to the target and the possible rate of acceleration (specific to individual allomantic power) the final energy in the projectile could be devastating even with a small projectile. The only time I see a bullet carrying more energy than a coinshot projectile is at close quarters where there is no space for the projectile to accelerate. There would be complications to this process too. A continuous push would mean that any small movements of the coinshot after launch would alter the trajectory of the projectile as his mass center would change. This would mean you would have to stay very still to launch something in a straight line. If you were ducking and diving, an instantaneous pulse may be the only feasible course of action. In that case a gun would serve a similar and possibly cheaper role. This effect could also offer some interesting options for a skilled mistborn who could launch a projectile, possibly in conjunction with atuim, to perform some impossible trajectory corrections to hit an obscured target. Second, I would argue that a well designed coinshot gun (what ever form that might take) could have a faster possible rate of fire, it would run silent and there would be no flash to give away position. A coinshot sniper would be undetectable to all but a coinshot, lurcher, or mistborn, and even if the coinshot were just pushing bullets they could pack around more ammunition per unit of weight because they wouldn't be carrying the charges as well. These munitions to have special modifications similar to what was shown in Alloy of Law to help fight other mistings too. Third, a coinshot could potential fire strategically placed projectiles without giving the warning of raising a gun in the direction of the target. with proper training a misting to learn to 'shoot from the hip(chest?)' fourth, multiple instantaneous shots. Perhaps not accurate but has the possibility to get you out of a jam. I guess at the end of all that I would say that a melding of both, a coinshot gun, would be the very most effective. though someone with more imagination than I may prove that wrong. I do think that a coinshot assassin would be a powerful force. edit: I lied about the specialized guns bit didn't I?

I am new to the site and just wanted to say hello. I have been a fan of Brandon Sanderson since I was roped in from WoT. I have been lurking for some time and love the discussions. I hope to bring some unique insights,