Unhurried

I would disagree, but do think he's worth saving. Brandon's pulled those sort of arcs off well before.

Thanks for the correction - I think the main risk remains something non fatal but damaging in the long term, which has worked moderately well for them so far with Shallan (e.g. with gaining access to Kalak), but will be interesting to see how it develops.

And like Hoid, they still have a moral code. SA perspectives are shaped by Shallan (who in turn is shaped by Jasnah) feeling significantly under threat, which is understandable, but IIRC the only real time we've seen the Ghostbloods sanction a hit on somebody is Jasnah. I don't think Kalak was intended as an assassination, especially given the interlude indicating an overarching purpose of gaining control over him. Mraize threatened Shallan's family when they were hostages but never properly followed through, even though he must have known the risk Shallan's family would slip from his fingers. All of which to say, while this isn't meant to excuse the Ghostblood's actions, I think they do see themselves as pursuing a moral purpose (spelled out more in Mistborn) and so do hold themselves to a moral standard. I'm less worried Shallan will be physically hurt by being discovered, than I am by them e.g. capturing her for use as a hostage against the Kholins, tricking her into doing the wrong thing, or something else beneath the threshold of death but still damaging.

This made me chuckle - continuing on the Molli theme, on a semi-serious note, I wonder if there is something similar going on to the Ryshadium. If the stones are imbued with some form of RAFO significance, it would make sense the farmers are one of the more highly valued roles, if they are the ones who are most likely to spot new stones. Therefore, having animals who can help with the finding process - such as Molli - would be an advantage. If that makes the sheep like the Ryshadium, I wonder what spren they would have...

Good food for thought - I think a lot of this goes back to Dalinar's conversations with Mr T, where it becomes increasingly clear Dalinar cannot agree with utilitarian ethics, perhaps because he's seen the suffering it can cause firsthand. IIRC these discussions are around the same time Dalinar is remembering his past, which in a way is one long experiment of "what means are justified for bringing unity?" By Honor's standards, what Dalinar did may well have been legally and morally justified, but ultimately Dalinar decides he cannot agree with this approach himself (cue Oath ringer's "you cannot have my pain" scene). I bring this up because of the wider questions around who might take up Honor's Shard, and/or whether Dalinar might be successful as Honor's champion. If Dalinar already disagrees with THonor's preference for the letter of the law over personal conscience, then I can see it being a struggle for Dalinar to take up the Shard/succeed as the champion without redefining what honourable actions look like. I think that's part of why his scenes with Adolin remain, to remind us how Dalinar's conscience has changed/been challenged over time.

Hopping on the Change bandwagon - I'm surprised we haven't seen much of anything of Rsyn since Dawnshard, even though she was on good speaking terms with Navani, Radiants and Thaylenah highups. I wonder if Sanderson is saving her for a reveal in this book - perhaps as part of the Thaylen battle scenes - setting us up for a twist if TOdium is trying to secure her Dawnshard as well. Given TOdiums wider impulse to leave no challengers, it would make sense that he's trying at minimum to remove the Dawnshards from competitors, even if there are limitations on what he can do. Hence Shattered Plains to capture Hoid/Sig's, Thaylenah to capture Ryan's, and perhaps Azimir for one of the unknown ones? That way, even if he doesn't manage to hold the cities long enough to "win" under the contract, he's still achieved something significantly worth the risk?

EDIT: Sorry just saw your posts Aleph-Naught! Agree there was probably some form of negotiation that took place, though I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of this was off the cuff "we actually killed Adonalsium, quick we better figure something out"? I'm wondering how much of these "agreements" trace back to anything the first Shards said immediately after the Shattering - I don't know if we have any WoBs on something like this? At minimum, SA and wider Cosmere seem to imply the following Shard rules (which can only be modified with mutual consent): 1. One Shard per planet 2. No direct attack on another Shard 3. No direct manipulation of free will All of which to say, perhaps Rayse wishes he could break all of these rules because they hinder his long term plan to be the only god: 1. Means he cannot get close enough to a Shard to... 2. Splinter or otherwise render ineffective other Shards 3. Makes it harder to have willing soldiers - e.g. the Thrill needing people to willingly accept it, but once they do Odium seems able to manipulate them to his aims much more easily What do others think? Any other Shattering-era rules at play?

I could see this happening, this would have parallels with the ending of Hero of Ages having multiple holders of Preservation/Harmony

Interesting theory, and would fit with similar characters having borne dawnshards while still appearing "normal"? That said, I feel like Kaladin would have drawn upon Honor's power more significantly in WoK when he was in bear constant threat of death if he was the vessel? I've just started a poll on potential candidates for Honor so feel free to continue the debate there (couldn't see a way to add a poll here)

Who becomes Honor? It feels like there's a couple names floating around, personally I'm favouring Kaladin but keen to hear what others think!

Agree - particularly from one of the last things Tanavast said in the "original" visions: So would make sense to delve a bit deeper into Honour's memories of these? And given we know Sigzil is due to hold a dawnshard at some point this book, it would make thematic sense to get some more lore on them, beyond what we've seen with Rysn?

Hmm I agree we're unlikely to get too many character developments, but particularly with the likelihood of visits to the Spiritual Realm (IIRC the last time this happened was when Kaladin reached 4th ideal) I'm expecting at least a couple? After all the foreshadowing of their relationship this would be marvellous

Thanks everyone! Outside of Sanderson I'm into board games (anything from A&A to Avalon), theatre and a healthy amount of (inclusive) church stuff. Forums-wise I'll probably gravitate towards SA but suggestions welcome! A world without The Lopen would be a sad world indeed. Good question! Probably the Purelake for a more peaceful experience?

Agree - this is consistent with Mraize/Ghostbloods MO so far. e.g. most recently, getting Shallan to go to Kalak and do the heavy lifting of either trapping him, or establishing enough trust with him so that Felt and Ala could gain access. (I appreciate this brushes over the question of how much the agendas of individual GBs align.) My question would be who is the Felt-equivalent in whichever team Shallan pulls together for her BAM quest. Alternatively, I don't think Mraize will hurt Shallan's family just to exact some revenge, but I can see him re-taking some of them hostage so Shallan feels forced to give BAM to him.

Question for everyone - which character(s) are you most hoping to see character growth in WaT? Mine's probably Jasnah; she's been a great character for helping others grow or explore their own actions (e.g. Shallan and Dalinar), so it would be great to see some of her own growth as well. Perhapst this will be more for the latter 5 books when we get her flashbacks, but seeing some of her own character shine through more in RoW, and now in WaT preview chapter 14, gives me hope we might see a bit more in WaT. (Posting in Cosmere Spoilers thread in case people want to see growth for worldhoppers!)

Hi everyone! I've been loitering on the forums for a while so figured it was about time to make an account. I've read most of Brandon's Cosmere novels, including the Stormlight Archive, Mistborn and the Secret Projects. Favourite characters include Kaladin, Lift and (of course) Hoid. Looking forward to discussions!