Dager000

I don't disagree that it seems likely that stormlight will be back, eventually. But honestly? I can't even imagine how they would get to that point, given where WaT ended. If Honor splits from Retribution, then sure -- but it feels like that might be many, many years off (in world) given how resistant Shards are to change. Maybe there'll be some way to artificially produce it, using the tone of Honor + Intent + unkeyed Investiture? But at that point, I'm pretty sure that unkeyed Investiture itself would suffice. More to the point of this thread, though, I'm curious what happened to the other Splintered pieces of Honor. Agree with the boost to Syl, but what are the rest getting up to?

Oh, interesting. Guess I spoke from a place of complete misinformation... whoops.

Assuming you mean tapping the vision Tinmind, a Feruchemist can control the speed at which they tap their metalminds -- here's an example from WoA Ch. 53: Might not be the earliest example? But here, we can see Sazed quickly draining his pewtermind to draw a vast amount of strength out in a very short period of time. He happens to have stored a lot, so he ends up able to maintain the state at least for a bit, but not nearly as long as he'd have been able to if he had tapped it in a much lower amount. A Fullborn tapping duralumin would (to the best of my knowledge) not be able to tap their metalminds any quicker than the average Feruchemist, since allomantic duralumin only has an effect on the internal allomantic metal reserves of a Mistborn. However, compounding does lead to quicker tapping. Separately, if this is a different point of confusion, using allomantic tin enhances all of your senses at once -- you can't just enhance one. However, a TinTwin could store just one of their enhanced senses in a tinmind (and, in fact, would be required to use a single tinmind for a single sense anyways). Compounding to fill and tap the Tinmind should basically be instantaneous (as best I can tell), like how the Lord Ruler only needs to age briefly to gain a ton of youth, and Miles Hundredlives can gain a vast amount of healing by barely making himself sick (to the best of my memory; not sure we really see him do this in the books, but iirc it's described that way). Now that I'm reading this part of your reply, I think I see what the question is: since burning duralumin allows you to burn the whole allomantic reserve at once, and having a big enough metalmind allows for compounding, does duralumin have a tangible effect on filling the metalmind? My best guess here is... kind of: you're right that compounding happens nigh instantaneously; however, the important thing here would be that burning tin using duralumin leads to a heightened tin effect in the first place (re: Seeing the Stars) -- which should let the metalmind hold a stronger version of the sense stored. This would (assuming our discussion above is right) be the equivalent of storing the sense for longer. Even though the compounding would still happen at instant speed, you're storing an even stronger version of the sense at instant speed, which means the compounding (when tapping the metalmind) would kind of be having an even more than tenfold effect on the sense stored. Additionally, you have a longer-lasting reserve in the metalmind since you could just tap it less quickly. I hope this makes sense/clarifies! And that if I'm wrong somehow here, someone corrects me (edit: I was very wrong). TL;DR: compounding is basically instantaneous and leads to an increase in the feruchemical ability stored. However, duralumin burning allomantic tin leads to a seriously stronger version of all senses, which when stored would lead to "more" of the sense being stored instantaneously (increasing the "duration" a Fullborn/Twinborn could access).

Thanks all for humoring the question/theory so far! Honestly I somehow completely blanked on the fact that tin compounding would be relevant; I’m blaming that on the late hour lol. Out of curiosity, is there textual evidence or a WOB supporting this specifically? Admittedly I didn’t look super hard, and I totally buy the idea, but I’m curious if we’ve seen it in universe and I’m just forgetting. Fair point! Do you think that during the duralumin-bursted tin burn, the person storing sight but not the magical sense component would still get that burst? Or is the sight itself modified? I don’t think we’ve seen anything clarifying this before — the mist-piercing has never seemed super fleshed out to me before. Oh interesting, never seen that before. Yeah given how much Intent matters in general, I can totally see a Cosmere-aware tineye adjusting parameters of their enhanced senses (or at least knowing they might be able to). Cool idea for sure.

In this WOB, Brandon says that Feruchemical tin could store Allomantically granted/enhanced senses: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/316/#e9199. It’s specifically referring to a Seeker’s senses, here, but I see no reason (off the dome) that Tineye senses wouldn’t be par for the course. So, say you have a Fullborn (or Investiture user with access to Allomantic tin, Allomantic duralumin, and Feruchemical tin; via Hemalurgy or otherwise): if they consumed a large amount of tin, burned the entire reserve at once using duralumin, and stored it in a tinmind, what would we expect the product to be? 1. An absurdly strong sense for a very short duration (scaling similarly to regular tinmind creation, ish) 2. Similar sense enhancement to a typical tinmind, but potential access for a longer duration (i.e. the sense strength acted like a longer stored duration of regular sight and hearing) 3. Standard sense enhancement with standard access duration (i.e. the tinmind hits capacity before excess can be stored) 4. The ability to tap their tinmind for the Allomantic equivalent of the enhanced sense (i.e. usually tapping a tinmind doesn’t give the same kind of sense enhancement that a Tineye would get; HOA Ch. 66) for a questionable duration I think my gut says that 1 or 3 is the most likely — or potentially both are — since minimally tapping the theoretical tinmind in 1 would lead to less enhancement than was originally stored while leaving quite a bit of the enhanced sense left (basically mimicking a standard tinmind); or, in the case of 3, trying to drain it all at once should lead to a burst of a horribly heightened sense (probably). Quick caveats/other thoughts: - The tinmind could only store one of the enhanced senses from burning tin - If 1 is correct, the tinmind might be completely useless, since it might basically flashbang the user and totally overwhelm them. Alternatively, it could be super useful as a way to fraud a bigger tinmind (i.e. storing a very strong sense in a very small tinmind, which you then tap very slowly, might act like a bigger one tapped at a more regular rate) Hope this is comprehensible, I’m tired and procrastinating some chores and I thought this might be an interesting hypothetical. And who knows, maybe this could have some espionage potential if you get the right combination of Mistings and Feruchemists together to make a really weird unkeyed metalmind.

Cool, I've personally felt like Discord made sense (for the exact reasons you mentioned) since I was introduced to the idea; good to know it's not just me being convinced by a fringe theory lol.

Yeah, definitely true -- I'd meant to imply that Worldhoppers would be included in my "some influence" part, but that wasn't clear. I'd never interpreted the dead Terrisman as a Hemalurgic kill before, since the description doesn't seem quite messy enough (though if there's a WOB, ignore me lol). But that's interesting to consider.

Sigzil's mention that he could be turned into a useful spike was interesting to me, yeah. Unsurprisingly, I guess knowledge of Hemalurgy has spread through the cosmere (at least to some privileged groups), but I wonder what specific attribute they'd be stealing from him. Connection to his former Dawnshard seems likely, but also somewhat vague, as we know that things like Linguistic Connection are separate from other kinds of Connection -- and I would assume spike placement needs to be specific to get the right kind. If I remember correctly, Spook got some info on Hemalurgy, but would it have gone that in-depth? Did Harmony become Discord (not sure how widely accepted this theory is as a possible route) and spread the specifics (intentionally or otherwise)? Or, most concerningly, did some other Shard (via an avatar/follower), or some influence on Scadrial (e.g. remnants of The Set) figure it out? So much to look forward to learning about! And theorize about, for now.

Sure, early-morning mistake on my part, and you're definitely right about which cause they find legal basis/justification for. Regardless, allying with the Fused + Singers still relies on being okay with the fact that Odium guides their movement like... almost completely. We have no reason to believe that most Fused are resisting Odium in some way or another (Leshwi, arguably, doesn't even do this until the end of RoW; and Raboniel is resisting kind of, but only in the sense that she seeks an end to the endless warring through the victory of either side). And, in turn, the Fused guide the Singers, some of whom resist, but the Skybreakers are allying with the combat force (at the moment) and not the (few) rebels. Either way, might be letting this get away from the topic of the post lol.

Makes a ton of sense lol, totally get why it links straight to Sigzil now but I was like "I know this is mentioned somewhere and not linked to him (directly)."

Oh, and per Sigzil’s age, he frankly doesn’t seem hurt/broken enough to be 400 years old, but I agree that 80 is too young. Sadly there’s probably not enough of a timeline at the moment to accurately place him, but anywhere from 120-200 at least feels right to me.

I feel like 3 is of particular note given the Skybreakers (as an organization under Nale) overwhelmingly joined Odium, save for Szeth. From the limited interaction(s?) we’ve seen between Szeth and his highspren, the Knight Radiant is — as Aux referred to Sigzil — treated like a squire in their agreement; which, to me, indicates that the highspren themselves find Odium’s cause just. In that case, what does it mean or imply that Sigzil, who I feel like we can say with near certainty didn’t change sides, bonded a highspren? Obviously individuals can exist outside the order-as-faction (re: Szeth), and we know that spren civilizations aren’t monoliths (e.g. the various honorspren factions in RoW), but this still strikes me as particularly notable. Additionally, it seems doubtful that Sigzil would break his bond in a way that would leave his honorspren a deadeye, so what does that tell us about Ba-Ado-Mishram/the state of spren and Rosharan Spiritwebs in the years following RoW? Lots of questions, and it’s 5:34 AM for me so my brain isn’t totally working, but I’m curious to hear what other people think. And myself once I’ve slept.

That’s why the name was familiar to me, god. I literally went to the Coppermind the moment I saw the name Zellion mentioned, but of course no dice — because it’s from the Kickstarter.

Actually been a pretty long-time lurker (since I fully read the Cosmere a few years ago and have kept up since) but finally decided to make an account so I can like... contribute to discussion lol. Not sure what else to say, but looking forward to discussing with everyone!

On the whole, I think you’re right in that the Father Machine can take Investiture from any Invested entity — which is horrifying in its own right. But from what I gathered, this Investiture-slurping was really a consequence of poor design (hah) and Awakening by the Four Scholars: the machine needed any raw Investiture to operate and sustain/maintain itself, so it indiscriminately targeted the easy-to-access humans. With that as fuel, it could attract the Hijo and use their particular Investiture to make tools or hion. Spren Investiture doesn’t get the Father Machine anything other than fuel.