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This is a really interesting comparison! Good eye for noticing this indeed - he's probably pulled a bit from that story for sure. The dragon encounter especially. One thing to mention is that I don't believe Lumar itself is a dodecahedron, but you're correct in thinking that the moons float around it like the faces on a d12; a sphere with a sphere of spheres.

This book was an incredible read. Honestly, one of my favourite of Brandon’s works to date. Everything about it just seemed to ‘click’ for me, and once I started reading, I found myself unable to stop. So, I hope you all don’t mind, but I’d like to gush for a bit. Hoid has always been a great narrative insert character, as in I feel he works well no matter the narrative he’s inserted into. I’ve always found him quite entertaining. So, to have the whole book narrated by him and coloured by his voice was a really nice change of pace from Sanderson’s usual style. It allowed for a lot of unique prose and story-telling asides. The ‘Doug’ breakdown is a great example of this. I also enjoyed all of the narrative encouragement that he offers throughout the story, addressing the reader or listener with little anecdotes and asides about the nature of life and one’s own sense of worth. I couldn’t get away from that arrogance and self-worth line. It’s something I struggle with a lot. Beyond that though, I loved the fairytale, Princess Bride vibe to the whole story. It helped put the focus on the entertaining elements and less on the overall stakes. This isn’t a Rhythm of War type narrative, with a bunch of heavy twists and heaving turns – it’s just a good story told well. Tress is a fantastic protagonist. Her thoughtful nature and her desire to not be a bother was especially relatable to me, and no doubt many others. Her pragmatism was also a joy. Reading Hoid rave about how she sat back and thought on how Crow related to the Sorceress before she acted on her assumption was wonderful. Yes, more common sense in stories please! I also loved how much the book focused on how normal she was, and how wrought that phrase is with bias. There’s no such thing as normal; everyone is different and shaped by their experiences. Seeing Tress gain more confidence over the book, and how she started exploring her interests and gaining trust in her friends, felt natural to me. And at the end, we see that she’s still the same kind person that she was at the start but molded into something stronger. I also enjoyed Charlie/Huck throughout. Though I did see the reveal coming, I didn’t guess the context of how the curse worked. Initially, I found the scenes of him trying to prevent Tress from reaching the island a bit annoying. As Hoid said, the ‘it’s for your own good excuse’ isn’t a strong one. But then we learn that her going there was literally part of the curse. Charlie would rather betray Tress and stay as a rat forever than put her in his position. Great stuff. I only wish we had more of their interactions. (Also, love how the line “My whole family are rats” works when you realize he’s talking about his father). The supporting cast were fantastic as well. The officer’s journeys and how they grow to accept and trust Tress, as well as overcoming their own internal struggles. Ulaam’s kandra weirdness adding a nice touch of levity to the whole shebang. Even the Dougs and how they’re not really Dougs, they’re people equally as important as everyone else (that Pakson scene was well done). Crow was also quite interesting. Her demeanor as an unkind person brought to the point of desperation, uncaring about all beneath her right up until that nature undermines her (which, as it turns out, was likely her best option) was well handled in my opinion. A suitable antagonist for sure. On the cosmere front, this book had a ton to offer. As others have mentioned, this feels like it was written for the detail-obsessed cosmerenauts that Brandon knows we are (I chuckled at that ‘The trowel was steel’ moment. In the same vein though, it also feels like a lighter touch than was in the Lost Metal; more “check out this cool stuff that’s going on”. Really liked the exploration into the aethers magic system and the contrast between how the Sprouters and Twinsoul use them. There’s something quite exciting about how the same magic system can be used in multiple ways with slightly varying rules. It also made me curious as to what the other aethers do. We’ve now got Roseite, Verdant, Zephyr, Midnight, Sunlight and Crimson (plus Bone aether- white sand perhaps?) What other colours and effects will we have in store? Apart from that, there were so many awesome references and implications. Sazed freed the kandra…why? The Ire are going strong, and one of their agents is playing Sorceress. It seems that Selish magic is becoming more wide-spread and given its versatility, how much could that start playing into the more advanced societies. The Nalthin Awakening technology was also pretty neat, and really expands on what that magic system is capable of. Of course, Xisis the dragon and the first canon look at Dragonsteel was incredible, and I felt awed by how much power and composure he fielded. Plus, the cloth he wrapped Crow in; was that Awakening? Can dragons do that without verbally expressing a Command? Makes me excited to see more of them in the future. But honestly, the one line I enjoyed the most was Tress’ “Death, with nails in his eyes.” Marsh is one of my favourite cosmere characters, so to see that he, or his legend, is circling throughout the cosmere, even in this late era, is awesome. Overall, a fantastic read. I’m sure that it won’t be for everyone. If you’re not a fan of Hoid’s voice, it could even feel like a drag. But for me, this is peak Sanderson. Unburdened by deadlines and expectations, just writing a good story for his wife and then being willing to share that story with us. If you actually read all of that, I thank you. Have a lollypop for the road

Agreed. Having Hoid do the narrative voiceover would be fantastic, and he could even call attention to certain cinematic tropes rather than literary ones. One of Sanderson's most cinematic books so far.

I had a wonderful time thanks, hard to go wrong with holidays! @Cinnamon @Telrao Woo hoo! How awesome! Glad to know I wasn't the only one enjoying the heat this Chrissy. Fantastic list of questions as well!

Not so much that I want them to, I'm wondering whether it's possible. The acceleration due to gravity is 9.81ms2. If you were accelerating faster than that you'd be able to run up walls and buildings etc. If you were accelerating much faster than that, could you run off of objects suspended in the air that are yet to fall? That's my question. Gatling rounds would more likely tear through you, not lodge in you. Plus, with how strong Miles' healing ability is (and how strong his Cognitive and Spiritual versions are), it's more likely his body would force the bullets out - rejecting them as part of his ideal self (similar to how Kaladin initially rejected the tattoo ink from Bridge 4, just at a larger scale). That's a valid point, but I think @UnfortunatelyNamed also has a point in saying that the scene utilizes Dalinar, who's Bondsmith surges work differently to a Stonewards, and who we haven't seen display similar strength since. I'd honestly have to re-read the scene. I feel the super strength argument is a bit redundant though, since the original question is putting Twinborn against 4th Oath Radiants, who's Shardplate grants enhanced strength to all of them, regardless of Order.

Relevant WOB

All good

That's due to them opposing gravity. I'm not referring to the Steel Compounder shooting coins Allomantically, I'm referring to them physically stepping on an item they are flinging into the air. Again, the thought isn't meant to be super serious - just a bit of comic logic that may be worth thinking about I mean, eventually, in Miles' case, is on a much different timescale than a Bloodmaker with unkeyed goldminds. The sheer amount of bullets or wounds you'd have to impact would be out of the field of possibility for pretty much anyone short term. You'd likely need to be bombard him with constant fire for hours, if not days, to drain every inch of healing that he had stored up. Plus there's his savantism on top of that. There is this WOB regarding their ability of Cohesion, stating that they can't make it work on living flesh. It's not unreasonable to think that Tension would be similar, as both these Surges deal with Axial Interconnection.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you were accelerating faster than gravity, wouldn't it be similar to being in a zero-g environment? You'll exert force on the object in the air, but it will also impart some force back into you, like an astronaut flinging a spanner away in space to generate a force back into them. I suppose it would be more about the force the Steel runner is kicking with through their legs then the force the stepping surface would be imparting onto them. Alternatively, they could get a mad run up and leap off of a large rock or building or something. They'd better hope they grab the Radiant though, unless they want to end up splatting into the ground...

When you say shot out, do you mean they'd fall away from under the Compounder's foot? If that's the case, could they not make it work with heavier objects then?

Oh absolutely. He was my Physics teacher's favourite superhero, as he had access to so many superpowers just through his use of super speed alone. Intangibility, Invisibility, Flight, Super Strength (Infinite Mass Punch style), Super Healing, Pre-Cognition, Memory Retention, Infinite Stamina (when fueled by the Speed Force), Teleportation and Time Travel. Super speed is a busted ability once you start getting into the upper echelons of power. I'm glad that Brandon introduced things like Feruchemical compression to prevent his Steelrunners and Fullborn from becoming absolutely broken.

One other aspect to consider about the Steel Compounders too. If they're accelerating at 9.81m/s, could they theoretically jump off of thrown objects, since they're moving on and off of them faster than gravity can pull them downwards? If so, that might be another way to catch up to a flying Radiant - making a staircase in the air out of rocks or coins that you place as you move. The thought is a little ridiculous, I'll admit, but maybe worth considering?

Yeah, that's basically it. You're mainly limited by the size and number of the metalminds themselves, which is why it's never technically infinite. The only way you could fully deplete yourself is if you have no metal left to burn ie, you Allomantically burn away all the metalminds bolted to and through you. I suppose you could tap all of the stored attribute at once, but the sheer amount of Investiture compression and ability overload would be more likely to kill you.

Aren't those Seons? If so, you're correct. We've seen Seons on multiple worlds (though we still don't know the exact methods of how the Ghostbloods transported them there). However, they are Invested entities like the Spren - they don't need a source of Investiture to survive; they are Investiture. The spren don't Stormlight to operate, as an example. Aons are the basis of the Arelon magic system, and we haven't seen those specifically used anywhere else, because they rely on the Selish Connection to the Dor.

I don't believe we've ever seen Aons used anywhere except on Sel, for the reasons that you've said. All Selish magics are heavily Connection based, and require the user to be near their magics country or culture of origin. Now, there are ways to unkey the Dor to use it elsewhere theoretically, but we haven't seen it thus far to my knowledge, and certainly not on many worlds.

It would be. I wonder if the Connection the Dawnshard creates with it's holder would cause some kind of feedback into the Bondsmith; sort of rebounding whatever effect they were trying to impose.

As @Frustration has said, I reckon that it's probably Hoid. He likely has access to most forms of Investiture, has been a Dawnshard at one point and has eons of experience. The only beings that could give him a run for his money, that aren't specifically Slivers like Rashek, would probably be Vasher, Taln, Ishikk and Susebron. The first three have an awful lot of combative skill (likely more than Hoid specifically) and a fine understanding of their powersets, and the later simply has a crazy amount of Investiture to draw upon.

I put this in other thread, but it probably belongs here too. They do get more out of their metal, as they are utilizing the power within the metal itself as fuel for their metalmind. For arguments sake, let's look at an Ironmind ring weighing 10 grams. Let's say it can store 10kg worth of mass within it, but if you were to burn 10 grams worth of Iron, you could Allomantically Pull 100kg worth of mass (random number as an example) towards you during its burn duration (ie, you could Pull a 10kg object toward you 20 times). A Compounder stores 10kg of weight in this ring, meaning the amount of potential power within is 110kg. They then Allomantically burn the ironmind and, instead of getting the Allomantic effect, they gain the Feruchemical attribute. So, they get 110kg of mass to draw upon. They take all of this mass and store it in another ironmind ring, which now has a potential power of 210kg. The Compounder then burns that ironmind, gaining 310kg of mass to draw upon. Repeat and repeat until your ironminds are full to bursting with mass to draw upon, not fully infinite but more than you could ever realistically use.

Yes, of course. 200kg of potential force ie, you can pull a 10kg object towards you 20 times. Alright, got it. Perhaps that's where the tenfold number comes from then? Example. An ironmind ring with a mass of 10 grams can store 10kg of Feruchemical mass. However, if you were to burn 10 grams of iron Allomantically, you would have access to 100kg of Allomantic power. Therefore, when you burn the ironmind proper, you gain access to 100kg of Feruchemical mass. And this applies across the board to all metalminds and attributes.

Just want to make sure my thinking is correct here. I'll use an Ironmind as an example, since we have a unit of weight (mass) to use. For arguments sake, let's say a small bead of iron can Allomantically allow you to Pull 200kg worth of mass (random number as an example) towards you during its burn duration. A Compounder stores 10kg of weight in this bead, meaning the amount of potential power within is 210kg. They then Allomantically burn the ironmind and, instead of getting the Allomantic effect, they gain the Feruchemical attribute. So, they get 210kg of mass to draw upon. They take all of this mass and store it in another ironmind, which now has a potential power of 410kg. The Compounder then burns that ironmind, gaining 410kg of mass to draw upon. Repeat and repeat until your ironminds are full to bursting with mass to draw upon, not infinite but definitely more than you could ever realistically use. According to the above WOB, getting metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. This includes injecting them. If you're full ironminds are nailed into your skin, you could burn and store them near indefinitely, as the attributes are always being built upon. We see this with Miles and the Lord Ruler. Is my thinking correct?

I agree; it's not necessary at all. And you're correct - even 10 times speed is a massive advantage. What I'm doing is estimating the upper limits of a Steel Compounder's abilities, and trying to calculate the level of power they could potentially use. You are right though, I'm assuming a lot on the Feruchemical decay side of things especially. We also don't know exactly when things like air-resistance will come into play, but I reckon it would still be after achieving speeds unreachable by the Radiant.

If that's so, I do apologies. I'll have to reread the scene again. I thought the reason he was able to hit her was that he was firing out of a speed bubble. Still, do you disagree that it would be possible to store that amount of speed? Sazed does state the following in the epilogue of the TFE "However, if the Feruchemist were also an Allomancer, he might be able to burn his own metal storages, releasing the energy within them tenfold. Mistress Vin tried to burn some of my metals earlier, but couldn't access the power. However, if you were able to make up the Feruchemical storages yourself, then burn them for the extra power..." That's where I got the ten times number. He literally states that it would be extra power.

I'm moreso asking about the nature of Compounding. Of all the instances that we see, a Compounder has never drained their metalminds to the point of emptying them completely, thus running out of an attribute. Even if they did, they would likely have access to more than enough speed for one battle. If I may, I suppose a hypothetical, and feel free to correct me if I'm calculating incorrectly. The average human walking speed is roughly 5km/h. A revolver bullet (from the old west days) moves at roughly 320m/s, or 1152km/h (for ease, I'll round down to 1150km/h). We have seen Bleeder move at around this speed, as bullets move slowly to her, so I feel it's reasonable. If a Steel Ferring is immobile and doing nothing but storing speed, (I'm using walking speed as I feel it's a nice average between sitting still and sprinting) it would take 230 hours to do so. Assuming they were storing for 12 hour days, as they can't store while sleeping as far as I'm aware, it would take them 230 hours, or roughly 20 days, to store up the speed necessary to go 1150km/h for 1 hour of time. Now, there would be Feruchemical decay, but the rate is hard to confirm, so for arguments sake I'll say they lose half the power. From what we understand, a Compounder's attributes are multiplied tenfold, so redoing the numbers means that it would take a Compounder 23 hours or immobility to store the same amount of speed [1150/(5x10)]. Even if they are only storing 50% of this is only them moving at half speed for less than a week, which is decently reasonable if you wanted to fill your metalminds. This also isn't taking into account the cumulative ability of Compounders to store and burn their own metalminds one after the other. The fastest human reaction times are around 0.15s. A Steelrunner moving at 1152k/hr can move across 48 metres in that time. And they could do this for 30 minutes. Now, Plate is incredibly durable, but think about the amount of concentrated damage a Steelrunner could inflict before the Radiant could even react, let alone how much they could do in half an hour. F=ma, after all. So I reiterate; I reckon that a Steel Compounder would have the best chance against a 4th Level Radiant. Superspeed is just busted.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel that answers the question. When have we seen this happen with Compounders that haven't been stripped of their metalminds? Especially if they have access to vials that they can drink at superspeed.