Yumiya

I really like how the community has come up with the references to the Unmade's names and real life. I have a couple of tweaks that might be interesting: Anat, Semitic war goddess, for Sja-anat. I like the association with Anat, but where does the Sja come from? I propose that the Sja actually comes from the Old Norse mythology of Sága, who is also called the seeress. Sága is commonly thought to be derived from the Old Norse verb sjá, meaning "to see". Given that fore-sight is of Odium and is granted to Corrupted Truthwatchers, this would make a lot of sense. Two of the other unmade are without associations, but we do have a WOB giving a clue: Note the use of the word "inspired", not "named after". I think Nyogtha is the inspiration for Re-Shephir. Resheph's symbology does not line up with Re-Shephir. So I think the name is separate. Re-Shaper might be a better translation of the name. But back to Nyogtha, who is described as inky and able to change her shape. Nyogtha also has the Spawn of Nyogtha. In a similar vein, I think God of the Red Flux is the inspiration for Ba-Ado-Mishram. God of the Red Flux is a mist-like being that has the power to turn humans into virtual zombies. While not directly Ba-Ado-Mishram's fault, her imprisonment basiclly did the same thing to the parshendi, creating the parshmen. Now, the name. BA, as has be previously mentioned (on reddit I think) can be translated from hebrew to "come", while Mishram is a direct translation to "mix" from Hindi, and "ado" goes to "give" from Latvian. Ba-Ado-Mishram gave the parsheni forms by mixing them with spren. Finally, there is Yeglir-nar. Still lost on the name side of things. Some one previously mentioned 'Ymnar. I think the MO is right but no mention of crystal. Turning into crystal seems like a big thing for Yeglir-nar hosts. Dygra might be a possible influence. Q'yth-az, while crystallin seems more like an inspiration for the sibling, given that humans that are psychically sensitive who come into contact with crystal formations can pick up its projected thoughts. Which leaves Yorith as the most likely, in that Yorith hypnotizes its victims, like Yeglir-nar. The rest of the unmade, I don't really have anything to add to. Though as a bonus (Emperor's Soul spoiler)

Ok, we will say that it is disproven until proven otherwise.

Part of me wants to say, "Ok, theory disproven" The other part of me wants to say, "Sanderson answered that question way to readily, he has to be pulling some word paly, like first to exist in this generation of Radiants or first Radiant to exist this return or something else is going on with Renarin (like holding a dawnshard...) or being descended from a herald, that technically makes him the first. Maybe he is just the first to be openly accepted by the Radiants."

Sja-Anat is shown to be rebelling against Odium. She wants to be free of him, and just be herself. She also has been known to corrupt spren, lesser in older days, higher in the present (At least according to Hessi). She only "Enlightens" willing spren and Mistspren seem some of the most willing to work with her (see Glys). If I were an unmade trying to release my bonds to Odium, I would find a rival force and bind them to me. The Radiants. And we see her doing it in the present. But could she have started her plan long ago? She grants Fore sight to "Enlightened Radiants" like Renerian. She has access to some of the powers of Odium. Maybe she saw something of what is happening now ans saw an opening for success. So she starts creating "Enlightened Radiants" way back before the fall of Urithiu. We see a recording in the Library room that might support this. A particularly small emerald (polestone of Truthwatchers and same order as Renerian). Dawer 30-20. The secrecy and the foreseeing reminds me alot of how Renerian acts. So, Sja-anat had corrupted higher spren in place during the evacuation of the tower, Truthwatchers specifically. She manipulated events to finally get rid of Rayse. She specifically called Taravangian a weapon. Big take away would be that the old Knight Radiants had some members that had bonded Corrupted spren, and this is why Sja-Anat was the most feared. She basically had spies and minions inside the orders. (Yes I know it says only "lesser" spren, but that could have been a cover up to keep the people's faith in the Knights strong, or simply a mis-translation or error in transcription.)

I think this might be the correct definition. Lift was "lifted" out of her normal context when she became closer to the cognitive realm. Though, she probably thinks that she was "lifted" out of the normal stream of time, to stay the same and not change.

I doubt it. Otherwise, we would see manifestations of say, the Sunmaker or Extes. Spren seem to be more of natural forces, emotion, and ideals. Not actual people. Unlike in the Iron Druid Chronicles, I don't think belief or knowledge of a fictional character would be enough to make it manifest.

They might have thought that the oath gates being locked were sufficient protection.

This all the way.

There has been speculation that Frost is the other Dawnshard we have seen. I doubt it because we know that something has changed Frost to basically immortal, but Sanderson said we would not be able to see the effects of holding the shard yet. Another faction seems to think that Dalinar is the other dawnshard, but the proof given seems a little skimpy. Here is my reasoning on why Dalinar has the dawnshard, as well as a couple of alternatives (I am divided in what I think most plausible). The mural that Rysn interacts with might not be the only mural that held a Dawnshard. Now, we see a lot of murals in Sanderson books, but 2 stand out to me. 1) The mural that is in the temple in Thaylen City. The one that screams Unite Us in Dalinar's head. Later he hears the same Unite Them command in his head in the same area. Maybe he got the dawnshard while healing the murals, and has not had time to manifest side-effects. I sorta doubt this, as Rysn recognized "Change" as a command and had to accept it into herself. 2) The hall of murals in Urithiu. This seems the more likely source of a Dawnshard. The murals are referenced a lot. Raboniel even has a mini rant about it, mentioning that some of the color had faded in one spot. We also know that Honor that the Dawnshards were out of reach. In some random temple in a populated city? Someone would have noticed. But in Urithiu where you need a Knight Radiant, when none exist? A lot harder to obtain. But if the Dawnshard was in Urithiu, who would have had the means to find it? Who would have a small enough roll that we don't see them obtain it, but a big enough part to merit getting such a gift. Who would not have talked about getting such power? Sigzil might be such a one. As on exploration duties, might have come across it. But I kinda think any of the soldiers would of reported such an incident. Any squire or knight radiant would probably be already showing signs of odd behavior. But what about the ardents. The library room/crystal pillar room is next to the murals, near the Urithiru gem archive. The ardents seem ti spend a lot of time there after the midnight mother is driven out. My thought is one of them could have picked up the Dawnshard out of curiosity. Then not told anyone, either out of a desire to study it, or a simple forgetfulness. My vote would be for Rushu. She had plenty of access and is highly distractible and forgetful. Plus she is one of those side characters that has been hanging out, getting consistent screen time, just ripe to become a main character in the second half of the series.

In SP4, Nomad talks about is oaths ending, being forgotten. There is a death rattle that I think my elude to how oaths are ended, like a reverse oath. In particular, I think it might be the words used by Sigzil to break his Windrunner bond. "The death is my life" - the constant running from the Night Brigade consuming his life. "The strength becomes my weakness" - his taking up the dawnshard? Super powerful, but causes side-effects. "The journey has ended" - his time with his honor spren must end, along with the oaths. Any thoughts?

Could the Black Piper be referring to Moelach? Moelach gives the visions to the dying, hence the "black", and "in the night" bits. Nobody really understands the Death Rattles as they are poetic fortellings, hence the "tune no man can hear". Obviously they are hearing the words, but not the meaning. "He watches" could associate in a couple of ways, 1)Moelach is watching those dying he gives the Rattles to , 2) Moelach watches world events in an effort to manipulate them. The "piper" part could be explained multiple ways as well. 1)Moelach is trying to manipulate events, leading humans down paths with his music (death rattles), 2)Moelach seems to move around periodically. Could he be drawing humans to investigate Cultivation's Perpendicularity? We also have this quote from Jezerin in Oathbringer ch 88. The pied piper in Earth folklore is associated with rats, in that he originally used his pipe to catch rats. In this part, he was a "good guy". When he was not paid, he used it to catch children and in some versions kill them. He is said to be a symbolic villain that represents a very real incident in medieval Hamelin in which many children died due to plague or some other catastrophe. Good guy going to villain sounds rarther unmadeish. Well, outside of the rat association, there is also the speculation that the unmade's names are derived from deities of Near Eastern pantheons and H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos. Moelach is thought to be derived from Moloch, Canaanite god of fire and chaos associated with child sacrifice. Medieval and modern sources tend to portray Moloch as a bull-headed humanoid idol with arms outstretched over a fire, onto which the sacrificial child is placed, hence "He holds us in his palm".

Ok, crazy theory time. Brace yourself. We have a WOB saying that if an allomancer were to try to burn silver, nothing would happen, no sickness, just nothing. Additionally that the allomancer would know if it was doing something. We also know if you try to burn non-allomantic metals or bad blends, it makes you sick. A bit of a contradiction there. What if the 16 metals are not all there are. Is silver actually doing something that the allomancer would not be able to detect? Then they stop, and don't try again, because they think it does nothing. I theorize that silver actually transforms mass into investiture, degrading itself in the process. Allomancers would not notice because the power they use comes from a connection to the metal to the shard. If bits of themselves are turning into investiture then the osmosis process of pulling investiture from preservation would be disrupted. The shades that encounter silver suffer from a similar plight, what little mass they do have is turned into investiture, and pulled completely out of the physical realm. Spren, who are basically pure investiture, instead get transformed into energy, possibly pulled into the spiritual realm.

But this kinda refutes the idea that a herald died the night of Gavilars death. They would have broken the minute they were returned to Braize. And then Taln would have returned. But Taln did not return until more than 6 years later.

Aux says they only turn into shades under the right circumstances. He also suggests that maybe they are not afflicted with that effect if they left before the shard's death. But for the sake of your question, we assume that these Threnodites can turn into shades. I doubt segregated housing or registration laws would be necessary. Shades actually seem pretty useful. They eliminate other predators and kinda act as a peace keeping force, preventing the shedding of blood. If the planet in question is rich in silver, just do what the waystops do, with the silver rings to create a safe spot. I think all that is actually kinda moot by the time we get to SP4. We have heard accounts of Nazh having a gun that basically shoots shades as ammunition. Clearly he found a way to contain shades. Just do that to any shade that appears. Make it a kindergarten emergency classroom drill with some catchy saying, like we have "Stop, drop, and roll" for fire safety. No descrimination, no Nazi star badges, no ancestry registries. Just free ammo.

To start I like all the feedback and cites of WOB I have not heard, thank you for reading and taking the time to track down relevant quotes. Next, if something is going on with Hesina and it is not a aspect of heredity, what is it? We have listed most of the known facts in this thread already so I will refrain from doing so again. Hesina seems to have have some connection to the Herald Vedel, for reasons mentioned above. @LightweaverWannabe mentioned that the real Vedel would not be able to sit aside as people are dying. That begs the question (if she is not Hesina) what has she been doing? Maybe the heralds that have not formed spren bonds are still patronizing those who follow their ideals. Teaching them what they need to know, passing on (water downed) versions of the ideals. Not hereditary, but influence. Maybe even elevating those they chose (like squires), but through mundane channels. If Hesina, or her family, was getting such treatment, leaving might have cut it off as Hearthstone was outside the Herald's influence.

See, that is where I get a little confused on the whole a Herald died and it was Shallan's mom theory. Jasnah, Tien, Kaladin, and Szeth were already being looked at as candidates at that point. And Shallan herself was bonded enough to manifest Testament as a shard blade. Spren don't start creating radiants until they feel a danger. What danger is there in having 2 Heralds on Braize? Wouldn't that strengthen the oathpact? And if this Herald who died broke, Taln would have been brought back too. But Taln does not return until a couple of months before the Battle of the Tower. Timing does not line up for me. Now, Lift is described as being identifiably Reshi, despite not being born there. Does not mean that she does not have Herald blood somewhere, but I doubt it would be direct and it is unclear who it would have been. None of the heralds are described quite like the Reshi are. Though, the distinctions might be smaller than we think because Jezerin is Shalash's father, but he is described as Alethi and she as Azish.

I thought Lift was chosen by the Ring because of her association with the Nightwatcher. Though Cultivations intervention in the Nightwatcher's boon/bane might be related, as she intervened with Dalinar as well. Though Taravangian did not become Radiant. Maybe his willingness to work with Odium excluded him from consideration, or his boon/bane made him unsuitable in a way that Lift's and Dalinar's did not.

Lets say that they are from Karbrandth. Hesina still is described as Alethi. And Karbrandth has people from all over the world.

Great counter argument to Chana being Shallan's mom as well. Ok, Theory revised. They are all descended from Heralds. Some particular lines seemed to have gotten attention before others. Chana - Shallan's mom and kids (Red hair) Vedel - Hesina and kids (Diamond polestone, association with healing) Jezerin - Kholin line, maybe all the way back to the Sunmaker (Sapphire pole stone/Kholinar blue, Ahu hanging around the palace etc) Ishar - Seth's family (Ishar looking like a Shin)

There has been a theory floating around that most seem to find very convincing (I think I am a outlier) that Shallan's mom was Chana. While I have not completely bought into it, it does beg the question, are there other children by heralds? Hesina becomes suspicious because two of her children were recruited be Spren (Kaladin by Syl and Tien by a cryptic). Then Sanderson implies that there is more going on with her: I think Kaladin and Tien are descended from Vedel, whose whereabouts are unknown. This could be in two ways. One, Hesina is Vedel. Or Hesina is also descended from Vedel. I am actually leaning toward the first. A couple of things we know: Vedel is described as looking Alethi to modern Rosharans. Hesina also looks Alethi. Vedel trained new surgeons during the desolations and is associated with healing and loving. Hesina married a surgeon and helps out as an assistant if hands are short. Hesina is a very loving person. Vedel was patron of the Edgedancers, who were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants, whose polestone is Diamond and are like good Samaritans. They are also the most religious of the orders. Hesina is described as being quick witted and eloquent. The gems stolen by the family were diamond broams. Hesina tends to spend her time in menial labor even after the townsfolk stop paying her. Hesina is very religious, particularly with burning glyph wards. Vedel came from a society that did not care about eye color. One of Hesina's parents is darkeyed, which is not unheard of but is not very common in modern times. Vedel, having been chosen as Herald, was much more than a simple country wife Hesina has fallen in social standing since her childhood. Now, one thing that starts to fall apart a bit is the other talk about Hesina's parents/family. We know that Lirin believes that he has met them and it did not go very well. They are not often talked about around the children and that Hesina is still receiving letters from her family. A couple of possibilities here might make it workable. Hesina is simply lying through her teeth about the letters being from family and got some people to pretend to be her parents. Hesina is a child of Vedel (like Ash is Jezerin's daughter) and either another Herald or a contemporary. Lirin did meet them and yeah, it didn't go well because they are insane. Hesina is referring to the Heralds as family and parent substitutes because all her direct relatives died long ago. We have seen Radiantness run in families. Kaladin and Tien. The Kholins (Dalinar, Jasnah, Renarin, Elokar-almost, excluding Navani as she is not related by blood). The Davars (Shallan, Helaran). We know it is not hereditary, but caused more because spren look in certain places, generally based on Connection to specific people. So maybe they are just looking at the descendants of the Heralds more than other places.

I don't think unmade were once human, they are spren. Also, Kalak's journal implies that she is fundamentally different than Heralds. Heralds being humans, highly invested. Spren being fundamental forces of nature.

Have you read the preview chapters of secret project 4?

I went and watched it. It seemed more like bafflement to me. My take was he starts to say something about the Stormfather, then backtracks to that it is impossible. No RAFO, just impossible. There is also this other WOB that seems to imply that he has not decided how Heralds would have children. If he had a child of a Herald as a character as central to the plot as Shallan, he would have worked out how that would have worked.

Since Sanderson completely nixed one of the prevailing theories on the cause of the return of the Radiants and the start of the True Desolation (WOB), I started looking into what the actual cause might have been. Per Jasnah's lecture, "The old ways are returning, and I don't see it as a hopeful sign. It's an act of self-preservation. The spren sense impending danger, and so they return to us." This means the spren choose when to start reforming the Radiants. So how do they choose when? I assume when one of the Heralds break has been the traditional way. But, I theorize that no herald broke this time. All nine still on Roshar have not died since the Last Desolation and then broken. When one Herald breaks, all Heralds are returned to Roshar. Therefore, if one of them had died, they would have had to break at least a decade before Taln returns, and Sanderson says he was only back a couple of months at most before showing up at Kholinar. Spren were showing up well before Taln. Shallan had sworn at least the first ideal with Testament by the time of Gavilar's death. Around the same time, Seth had already heard whispers from a spren and been exiled as Truthless. Jasnah had already been feeling Inkspren eyes on her for months. And shortly before, Kalidan had picked up a spear for the first time and Tien was being courted by a cryptic. What danger did the spren sense then? The Sons of Honor. Well, specifically what Gavilar set in motion while trying to obtain Anti-Void light. He sent someone through Shadesmar, through one of the perpendicularities. Once there, his envoys would have needed spren assistance to get to Braize and pull off the heist. Rumors of what they were doing probably began to spread, causing the spren orders to start trying to reform the Radiants. We know Gavilar had the gemstones by the night he died, and most likely not a huge time earlier than that (else he would have already met with Restares). So, a couple of months or years, to account travel in and then out and back to Gavilar could explain the time gap. Thaidakar mentions that he had set things in motion, but had not done much. What did he do? Possibly just the spread of false rumors in shadesmar. Sounds a lot like him.

In researching what might have caused the true desolation, I stumbled upon a theory. Hoid was once one of the heralds. Bear with me here... The Stonewards have a core tenet (per coppermind): "The core tenet of the order is be there when needed." And their gem stone is topaz (thinking of the first gem here). They enjoy exploring. They tend to be known for their can-do attitudes and for taking on enormous projects (sometimes more than they can handle). Now, we know that Hoid was once called Topaz and that he took his name after the first gem. We also know that Hoid knows where he needs to be. He explores the cosmere and is trying to something very ambition around collecting all the types of investiture. Sounds VERY similar. If Hoid, in collecting investiture, needed to get access to Braize, what would he do. No perpendicularity there. Why, talk the high and powerful among the humans on Roshar into an oathpact. One that he would join. Oathpact is made and they all go to Braize. Hoid finds what he needs, but now needs a way off Braize. So he leaks to the fused, that members of the oathpact could choose to go back to Roshar. This led to the torturing. And someone breaks. Once back on Roshar, Hoid finds someone to replace him, Taln. (This next bit is tenuous.) Because the Heralds were not expecting torture, they broke quickly this first time. Salash's bodygaurd, who came to Roshar from Ashyn with the rest of refugees, is still alive. He is chosen to replace Hoid and the connection to Honor is shifted to him. (Potentially because Ash had a crush on her body guard). Hoid is then free to leave Roshar through a perpendicularity and the oathpact remains in place. Through the strength of Taln's resolve to protect, desolations became hundreds of years apart. When the Knights Radiant are formed, Taln uses Hoid as a role model when making the Stonewards, in honor of Hoid making the Oathpact exist in the first place. This Theory answers a couple of questions. When/why was Hoid on Roshar before, dancing with ancient singers and able to recognize fused. Why do the Stonewards sound so similar to Hoid. Why Taln is not a Herald, well not the original Herald.