Returned

I hadn't even thought of it, and it's intriguing to finally learn another thing about Hoid! Even though we only have Shallan as an example, it seems like Lightweaver oaths are not just about observing oneself but also about admitting and accepting lies about who and what one is. I agree that us seeing Hoid tell us his truths seems unlikely, but maybe we'll get hints of the lies he has trouble letting go of. In that case we might learn something about the Shattering, how and why he was offered a chance to participate (and declined). Maybe we'll learn more about his actual goals, Cosmere-wide and on Roshar specifically. So that's my main guess-- bits of information on what we think we know about him that are revealed to be untrue, but not the actual truth. Alternatively, the Lightweaver oaths might end up having to do with Taravangian-Odium's meddling with Hoid's memory. That would fit with Shallan's experience, and it might be very difficult and painful for Hoid to recover his true identity and purpose after subtle manipulations. At a minimum he might have to confront not being so clever as to be untouchable, but that doesn't feel quite poignant enough (to me) after some of what we've seen of Hoid's behavior on Roshar. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I have counter-questions: do we know how far Hoid has progressed as a Lightweaver by the end of RoW, and how far does he need or want to go with his Lightweaving? It seems clear he's collecting magic from different Shards: So it doesn't seem like he's trying to get every available power, and he's knowledgeable enough pursue the ones that suit his purposes. He may have some degree of Lightweaving already, given how he interacted with some of Shallan's illusions in Oathbringer, So maybe he already has the powers he wants? Additional oaths bonding him to a spren might force constraints on his actions that he doesn't want, though a Cryptic bond might be the least significant type for that concern.

Thanks! I should have mentioned, I've read everything but White Sand and don't mind spoilers (at least about any published items). When in doubt, don't worry about spoiling anything for me. I agree that Scadrial-style snapping isn't deterministic, only a feature more ruinous than preservation themed (and one which Feruchemists don't need). But I agree, it seems clearly more of a Cosmere path to magic thing than a specific manifestation of the Shards on Scadrial-- that's a good observation. The degradation due to compounding is an interesting angle I hadn't considered in this context. I don't think it's conclusive on its own, but it definitely would unsettle the "Allomancy requires metal to be consumed" point. In any event, the direct comment from Harmony and the second Sanderson quote from Eternal Kohl are pretty decisive, I think. Harmony knows the complete history of both Shards' power, and seeking an exact 1:1 of Shard to magic style is probably too reductive.

I still remember the first time I started reading Way of Kings on the bus... I'm almost jealous of you! The first Stormlight book is really something special, I'm excited for you.

Perfect, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much!

Hi everyone, I'm new here and so I apologize if his has already been discussed to death (I didn't find threads in a search, but there are a lot so I could easily have missed some). But I've long wondered if Harmony is right when he describes the connections of Metallic Arts to Ruin, Preservation, and an interaction between them. His connection of Hemalurgy to Ruin seems clear enough: you have to kill a person to use it, and the amount of power in the resulting spike is less than the victim had. Ruinous. But Feruchemy always seemed more like Preservation to me than an interaction between Preservation and Ruin both. Nothing is gained or lost when an attribute is stored or withdrawn, it is just maintained almost perfectly until some time in the future. Where is the Ruin in that? (The only example I can think of with imperfect storage is Ruin's manipulation of copperminds). Conversely, Allomancy requires serious physical damage to awaken, destroys the metals used to catalyze its effects, and is described as producing a net gain by Harmony. None of those are very Preservation-like. In a similar vein, Preservation couldn't create dynamic individuals by itself and required cooperation from Ruin to create the humans on Scadrial-- the ability to choose to Preserve at some times and Ruin at others was more than was present in the other animals implied to be within Preservation's ability to create. That sounds more like the Allomantic net gain to me. My mind reaches for explanations and finds unsatisfying scraps. Allomancy existed before anyone swallowed lerasium, albeit in a weaker form, and Preservation was already a critical component of Scadrial's people, so maybe their Allomancy came from that and the huge dose of Connection from lerasium beads creates the otherwise impossibly rare Mistborn. But then the Connection to Preservation from burning lerasium doesn't grant them anything like Feruchemy, so that idea starts falling apart... All of this is pretty pointless speculation since we have so much information suggesting that Allomancy goes with Preservation: the mists swirl around people using Allomancy but not Feruchemy, swallowing a bead of lerasium is what grants super-Allomancy (in the form of Mistborn) in the first place, and Harmony (who holds both relevant Shards and would presumably know everything on the topic) explicitly says so. But outside of those, is there any discussion, here, in-text, or in a WoS that addresses my confusion?

It's an interesting idea I hadn't thought of before. He would be a formidable champion for sure and might be able to defeat Odium's choice, though obviously it would matter who Odium's choice of champion would be. I think that his effort to do as you describe would make the situation on Roshar worse regardless of how the contest of champions might play out. Bonds, in the Knight Radiant sense, are consensual and cemented by the oaths the knight swears interacting with the nature of the spren they bond with. Stealing a bond from another and forcing yourself into it without oaths of any kind seems like the opposite, and we have a couple of examples of that which are clearly Odium-tinged: Re-Shephir tries to undo Shallan's bond with Pattern and insert herself in its place in Oathbringer Fused are created when an ancient Singer inhabits a living Listener and obliterates the latter. The Listener may or may not have to be open to it happening, but Venli tries to resist (if only at the last moment) but it doesn't seem like that was worth much to the outcome as the process only stopped with Odium's command. The Sadeas soldiers outside of Thaylen City were bonded with spren without the soldiers' permission, reportedly requiring only the right state of mind and situation. So I think that stealing the bond to the Stormfather would inherently undermine the new Knights' position and would ultimately serve Odium more than anyone else, one way or another. Even if he successfully opposed Odium in a way that Dalinar and company might prefer I wouldn't assume that it will lead to an outcome they would like. Tezim + Stormfather - oaths - sanity seems to me like one of the worst things that could happen to Roshar.