Wandering Shade

28 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Are we talking about Compounding or not? We are talking about our level of technology or earlier period?

If yes, Double Steel all the way, everytime, always.

If not, im not sure. For Allomancy Bendalloy seems to be nice, but is expensive and hard to get. Maybe endeed Pewter would be good, but I think in normal life Zinc or Brass would be even better. For Feruchemy Iron, Gold, Chromium, or Duralumin seems to be the best. So I think 2 combinations:

A-Pewter F-Iron

A-Brass F-Duralumin

BTW, there was somewhere on Forum thread identical to this. Or even few.

I was unaware, apologies. Still, nothing wrong with making a new one, is there?

And yes, I am considering Compounding. Double Steel is OP lol so I get why you'd take that. But I like the ideas of Pewter and Iron, that's interesting and very cool. Brass and Duralumin could also be super cool as someone else stated above. Emotional manipulation and Connection could lead to some interesting shenanigans.

I'd like everyone to respond to this with what one allomantic and one feruchemic power they would take if they could choose and why? I just wanna see what everyone's thoughts are on the matter since there's 16 powers for each (no God Metals) and thus 256 possible Twinborn combinations.

Now, I know this is a broad question so I'm actually breaking it down even further.

What set of Twinborn powers would you choose for combat purposes, and what set would you choose for normal everyday life?

Personally, I think A-Pewter and F-Gold are a nigh perfect combat pair, since you can get more Health stored up than a normal Bloodmaker (Not as much as a Gold Compounder though, ofc), but also have the added physical combat capabilities of being a Pewterarm. It would also make becoming an A-Pewter Savant far safer.

As for normal everyday life, I think either F-Zinc or F-Bronze personally along with either A-Brass or A-Bendalloy. Probably F-Zinc and A-Brass. Just would make moving through normal life so much easier.

4th Ideal Radiant. So they have Shardblade, Shardplate, and both surges for all orders.

It would take extraordinary circumstances for a Radiant to beat a Fullborn.

The Fullborn would need to be a huge disadvantage for it to become a fair fight and even then the Radiant really has to get a headshot a few times in quick succession to drain the F-Gold reserves. Fullborn are really powerful, its unfair hahahhaha.

But this does give me an idea...

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

Ah, I see what you mean.

Well what I wrote appears also to be true (I just double checked): he DOES call Kaladin "Son of Honor" in discussing his bond with Syl, and his "killing" her, in WoR.

Doing a text search, the SF only ever calls Kaladin "Son of Tanavast" the one time: in OB Ch. 31, when Kaladin flies up into a highstorm as it tears into a town to plead with the SF to turn away from the unsheltered people below; and this after addressing him first as "Son of Honor":

Unless you count in RoW Ch. 107, when the SF refers to Kaladin as "the Son of Tanavast" but to Dalinar as Kaladin plummeted through the highstorm diving after Lirin.

In other words, the SF calls Kaladin "Son of Honor" more often, both to Kaladin directly and in reference to him to Dalinar, than he does "Son of Tanavast". I'd say it's more on the level of calling someone by different nicknames just for a little variety (after all, the SF never refers to humans by their name).

(BTW, the phrase "Son of Tanavast" is used just on other time in any SA book: towards Dalinar, by Taravangian.)

While there may be "something" to when the SF chooses to refer to Kaladin as "Son of Tanavast" vs. "Son of Honor", I also think it's a far, far reach to think that implies Kaladin is somehow the "Heir" to the Shard of Honor (based on calling him by the previous Vessel's name). Especially if you're drawing a parallel to Vin, when not her nor anybody else who later took up Preservation was ever called "Heir of Leras", so that's a double reach to me.

Essentially, saying "Son" doesn't imply "Heir"; and referring to Tanavast vs. Honor, if anything is meant by the use of distinct terms in context, is LESS meaningful wrt becoming some aspect of the Shard of Honor if the name of the previous Vessel were invoked instead of the name of the Shard in question, right?

....damn.

You right. I remembered the SF calling Kal "Son of Tanavast" way more often than that. Doesnt he call him that during the centerbeat in book 1? I dont remember precisely. Still, he doesnt do it super often and Taravangium calls Dalinar that too, so maybe it's not as important as we all think it is.

But c'mon, it'd be way more fun if it did mean something, right?

10 minutes ago, robardin said:

No, I mean that one shouldn't take Kaladin-specific inferences to the Stormfather calling him "Son of Honor" when the Nightwatcher calls Dalinar both "Son of Honor" and "Son of Odium" in the same sentence.

 And if you give special weight to the SF using the appellation over the NW on account of now being a Splinter of Honor, well the SF also called Venli "Child of Odium". So it seems to me that both the SF and NW are free to throw both labels around, and neither is more than an opinion of the "big" spren as to the person's nature.

I mean it's not like the SF calling Kaladin "Son of Honor" meant he was going to do anything special wrt Kaladin. Quite the opposite, he used the term in anger: first telling Kaladin to break off bonding with Syl, then in telling Kaladin he'd killed "my beloved one" and that "you shall not ride my winds again".

Hardly the sentiment he'd express if he meant it as a special title for the Heir to the Shard he is a Splinter of.

I think you misunderstand. The SF has never called Kaladin "Son of Honor," which is what he calls all other humans. He calls Kal "Son of Tanavast." That's what's weird.

Holy crap, the more I'm reading this the more I believe it. That's the sign of a good theory.

39 minutes ago, Nameless said:

That's because the investiture source comes from stormlight. To be honest we don't know a lot about the effects of aluminum on the cognitive and spiritual realms.

Ya know what, that's fair. I didn't think about that, I was more just thinking that you can use an Invested Art while surrounded by Aluminum.

On 1/30/2022 at 10:41 PM, Nameless said:

I also feel like allomancy would still function in an aluminum lined place as the power comes from the spiritual realm, but I can't be sure.

Soulcasting is possible within an Aluminum lined room, as we see in OB

7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I doubt it will have anything helpful in OB.  If I recall correctly he said a big driver for the Opening of the Perpendicularity (aside from all the narrative culmination bits) was to justify situationally Unlimited Stormlight so that he wouldnt have to work out the math for all the different powers.  

Which is fair, but also there's the scene in the Purelake where Szeth draws Nightblood to kill a dude. He had a bunch of spheres on him and I don't remember if its ever said how many, but it wasn't enough to sate Nightblood for even the few moments it was drawn, seeing as it damaged Szeth's arm in the process.

On 6/8/2021 at 6:39 AM, a Faceless Immortal said:

Honestly, I just want ma boy to be happy (maybe his 5th ideal can be 'I'll try smiling more' ?)

If that's Kaladin's 5th Ideal, I will laugh out loud lol

"Live before death, Strength before weakness, Journey before destination."

"I will defend those who cannot protect themselves."

"I will defend even those I hate, if it is right."

"I accept that there are those who I cannot protect."

"You know what? I think I'll try smiling more." XD

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Tbh I highly doubt Brandon actually has an answer to that one yet lol

Yeah same lol. But still, I can't wait until that's figured out.

Now wait hold on we can actually do some conversions ourselves here, using everyone's favorite Shardblade...

Nightblood.

We've seen Nightblood used by both Szeth and Vasher, with Szeth holding spheres and Vasher holding Breaths. I'm going to go to the chapter in Oathbringer where Szeth draws Nightblood for the first time and the chapter at the end of Warbreaker where Vasher uses Nightblood and see if I can glean anything about that from there lol

I'll be back to reply to this message in a few hours

This is actually something I've wanted to ask Brandon for a while, though I would word the question differently lol.

"How many broams of stormlight is a single Breath?"

I have literally wondered this for ages. But yeah, I feel like the scholars at Silverlight would have come up with a term, either inventing one such as the suggested Adon or using Breaths or Broams as a standard to judge others from.

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

I always feel like the Windrunners one is forced, the reason for multiple squires is thematic, they are leaders, they're elder siblings, their purpose is to gather people around them.

And I feel a stretch to even consider the Transformation and illumination elements in Lightweavers

It was always a small thing rather than something important. And Brandon has confirmed that we will see them more in Era 3

Yeah, Resonances aren't really on the same scale as the Surges in terms of power, so its fine that we don't see them all. I'd like to, but if they're not super important then we don't have to see them in the books. But if that's true, then Brandon doesn't need to be as coy about them as he has been, so Resonances seem to me to be important in one way or another.

Yes, Windrunners are leaders who gather others around them. But their ability to do so is greatly enhanced by their resonance. I personally think that having the resonances be just thematic to the orders and not have anything to do with what surges they have is somewhat antithetical to Brandon's Hard Magic writing style.

But yeah, if you disagree about the Memories being a combo of Transformation and Illumination, that's fair. I can see why. It makes sense to me, but if you think its a stretch I understand that.

Either way, we've kinda gotten off track from Spiritual Surges. From what yall have said it seems like all Surges have a Spiritual component, but they're not really able to be used actively by the Radiant, unless its a Bondsmith. Cause Bondsmiths break all the rules.

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

I took the contagious nature of the Shades and the expanding, maybe soul-eating (corrupting?) nature of the Evil to be the result of Ambition/Odium combined - Ambition's Intent might be something like increasing one's own importance/significance/power; combined with hatred, that could result in contagious, corrupting growth trying to transform all of the world into more of oneself.

Sounds like how Fainlife is described to spread.

21 hours ago, Frustration said:

We see this in the fact that resonances can be used without investiture, as they are passive abilities, and how Lightweavers resonance(memories) don't have anything to do with Illumination or Transformation

Emphasis mine.

I disagree strongly about this point. I think Windrunners having extra Squires is totally a thing of Spiritual Adhesion and Gravitation. A Windrunner is capable of having more Squires, a type of bond which is a form of Connection which Spiritual Adhesion manipulates. As for Gravitation, I see a Knight Radiant as a star with their squires as planets circling them. Sure, that's a bit more of an artistic interpretation than a purely logical one, but I think you get my point. Spiritual Gravitation draws more Squires to a Windrunner while Spiritual Adhesion allows for extra Squires via Connection. It could even be the other way around, with Adhesion Connecting them with more people while Gravitation allows more Squires to "orbit" the Windrunner.

Its fully passive, but its a combination of having those two powers.

As for Lightweavers, I think that their Memories can also be described as a combination of Illumination and Transformation. They take in the world around them, the sights and sounds, and crystalize them in their mind. Illumination, Transformation.

And unfortunately we don't know the Resonances of the other orders, which is REALLY ANNOYING. I feel like Brandon has cooled on the idea of Resonances as a whole and feels like they make things too complicated. Or maybe he just can't think of them for the other orders, which is fair. Hell, we might have actually seen the Resonances of the other orders and just don't know it yet.

So we know that Adhesion can be used by Dalinar and Ishar to mess with Connection, and when that happens its described as Spiritual Adhesion.

But something I was thinking about recently is a scene in WoR, where Shallan convinces Vathah and Red and the others to stop being deserters and to be good soldiers again. Pattern says that she Soulcast them, which Shallan is confused and disagrees about.

Maybe Pattern is right and Shallan did Soulcast them, but not in the Physical Realm. She Transformed their Spiritual selves, just slightly.

Once I made that connection I started thinking about the other Surges. When Venli uses Stoneshaping she was able to communicate with the stone of Ur, something which seems like not normal Stoneahaping. But maybe she was using Spiritual Stoneshaping, rather than Physical Stoneshaping, making a Connection between her and the stone.

Do all Surges have Physical and Spiritual versions? Do they have Cognitive versions?! Please help me here hahaha

The Evil being Fain makes a ton of sense and is nothing I hadn't thought about until I saw this post.

But, the other half of this theory is that after Odium wounded Ambition fatally, Mercy decided to Splinter Ambition but saved Uli Da somehow? Like, de-Vesseled Uli Da, then Splintered Ambition so Odium wouldnt come after Uli?

Then Uli crashes into Threnody and since she's Fain starts corrupting the planet making the Evil. But the leftover splinters of Ambition also alter the planet and allow Shades to exist?

This explains a lot about Threnody

Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Given by Brandon as well, but it's one of those WoBs I freaking hate so I try not to think about it too much xD

Huh I had not seen this one. Reading it, BrandoSando does say that Kal is not any more naturally gifted than any sports athlete is at their sport, which I can accept. He does say that its some Connection and Spiritual Realm weirdness, which makes sense to me, especially if like I mentioned in my last post Kal gets super charged near his death (which will definitely be happening in Book 5, I don't see Kaladin not dying in KoW).

Alright, so we seem to have some answers for:
Kaladin's insane spear skills; Minor natural talent combined with Connection nonsense
Kaladin's natural gift at using Surges; Strong Connection to Honor (maybe connected [or even Connected ] with the spear skills)

Which still leaves the Son of Tanavast and using up Innate Investiture nonsense to be explained.
 

16 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yeah it could just be "same author". But I think there might be a real connection.

It's not just being really good at it the way, say, Adolin is really good at dueling or Vasher is really good at Awakening - its the way they both instinctively do complex stuff with the magic system, including stuff that's otherwise unknown but seems natural to them (Vin's horseshoe flight trick, Kaladin protecting people from the storm).

I don't think any of the other main Stormlight characters, or Raoden in Elantris, or Vivenna in Warbreaker, or Wax and Wayne in Era 2 Mistborn work like this.

  Reveal hidden contents

Wax is crazy good, but that's lots of practice plus maybe savantism.

 

According to the Coppermind, other Elantrians do say that the AonDor comes more naturally to Raoden then any of them and its stronger for him too. Coppermind says that's cause he's got a stronger Connection to the Dor or something. Which I guess makes sense for Vin and Kal too. Stronger Connections to Preservation and Honor respectively. Buuuuut that still doesn't explain all of the other weirdness lol.

9 minutes ago, DiePie said:

Also the official explanation for Kaladin being so good with the spear is because he was good because he would become good, or something along those lines.

I know that's the official explanation given by Syl, who also says that its her fault as well. But, and forgive me for saying this, but that's so BS XD. He's only good right now because he would become good in the future? That's definitely not right.

11 minutes ago, DiePie said:

But personally, I think that his "personal quirks" are more so due to something big that will happen in his future. A large influx of investiture could mess with Connection-y stuff and give him a more personal Connection with Tarnavast as side-effects.

But this. I like this.

In book 5, Kaladin might be chosen as the Champion and Dalinar could give him a massive influx of Stormlight which could Connect him to Tanavast somehow, which might ripple backwards in time due to Spiritual Realm shenanigans. Maybe. I dunno, but it sounds pretty cool

50 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I'm skeptical that "Child of Tanavast" means literal biological descent -- its been so many generations that if there were any biological descendants they'd be a significant fraction of the population, maybe basically everyone.

I think it's likely an Identity or Connection type thing, Kaladin being an incredibly Tanavast-like personality which has some kind of Spiritual Realm effect. (The Stormfather is Tanavast's *Cognitive* Shadow, besides being a spren... but time is not really a thing in the *Spiritual*. Could Kaladin be connecting to some Spiritual aspect of Tanavast-as-he-was?)

I think this might explain Kaladin being super good with limited practice, just as (Mistborn Era 1)

 

I'm also not super happy with the "literally son of Tanavast" theory for the same reasons you stated. But I hadn't thought that Kal might just have a stronger Connection to Tanavast by having a similar Identity. That is interesting.

And yeah, Kal being really good at flying and using his powers feels really similar to Vin being really good at using her powers. But that might just be authorial bias; ie, Sanderson just likes having protagonists who are really good at using the magic system. But it could also be that Kal is literally in the same boat as Vin, which would be super interesting.

I got Lightweaver which is definitely interesting and not what I expected, but upon reflection I realize that I do relate to Shallan more than basically any of the other Radiants.

On 1/15/2022 at 0:05 AM, Trusk'our said:

If you could hack together the systems of Awakening and Feruchemy, I would think that this could be achievable, though difficult.

Why would you need Awakening? To give the copperminds a specific Intent? Could a Feruchemist not give their Coppermind an Intent without Awakening being involved?

So, Kaladin is weird.

"Son of Tanavast" rather than "Son of Honor" (possibly a direct descendant of Tanavast?!), the weird spear skills (apparently from Syl but I don't know if I believe that), the weird eyes right after he killed the Pursuer (I think that's from using Adhesion against its natural Intent but why would that mess up his eyes?), and lots of other little things such as his ability to fly nearly on par with Leshwi despite his lack of experience. Hell, he could fly on par with Szeth at the end of WOR which is crazy.

But there's one thing that, upon re-read of TWOK was brought to my attention.

Kaladin used all of his Stormlight when he used a Reverse Lashing of a large enough scale to pull an entire volley of arrows into his shield. After having read Warbreaker, I think Kaladin was left in a state similar to a Drab after he did that. He says that thinking is difficult and the others say his skin has gone ashen.

Did Kal use his Innate Investiture to power a Surge? Is that something normal Radiants can do or is it a Kaladin only thing because of all the other weirdness. Or as suggested by the text, did he just use too much Stormlight all at once?

I'm confused and excited and I want to hear other people's thoughts. What's up with Kal?

4 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yeah, I get that the "ancient" fabrials like Soulcasters and Regrowth fabrials are sapient spren choosing to manifest in the Physical Realm - I guess like living Shardblades - but it's not totally clear to me how that would carry over to non-sapient spren like the flamespren used in heating fabrials or whatever.

Ah, see they weren't talking about heating fabrials. They were talking about in use like in the 4th Bridge, the flying ship that Navani got made. Gravitation Fabrials would be SUPER useful for that, way more efficient than the current method of linked fabrials.

2 hours ago, ShardlessVessel said:

What in the world is this? He behaves like a Skybreaker, but he glows violet. The color of Willshapers and Voidlight. What is going on here? Does Skybreaker plate glow violet instead of gray or is this Radiant - assuming he is a Radiant - using Voidlight?

Honestly, I didn't notice anything wrong with that description at first. But that might just be because I'm too used to seeing this picture when I think of Skybreakers and it has them glowing vaguely purple-ish. But you're right in that it really shouldn't be described as a "deep" violet, it should be more of a grey color. I do think that that violet color has something to do with voidlight or warlight though.