Tamriel Wolfsbaine

So typically a allomancer shooting or yoiking coins and other metal objects has blue lines from their center of whatever (I want to say gravity or their gut or whatever but there is some cosmere spiritual realm term I am sure is slipping my mind). Anyways. If Kandra can move their bind points do you think it is likely that they could shift this part of them as well and pull items / push items from any part of their body so long as that spiritual part of themselves is fluid?

I always head cannoned that the kandra being cut would allow the blade to fuzz but that it would still pass through a bone like any other object. I always thought that that would be the strength of an aluminum true body. Get yourself a boatload of aluminum and shape it into bones and then hide your central nervous system inside of that... With our spines working so well to encase our spinal cords and the option to make the aluminum porous the kandra could literally grow their nervous system through an interconnected system of aluminum that would render the shardblade useless against them. Imagine being some big bad shardbearer on your world and swinging it at a person only to have it suddenly slap something it cannot cut through and the enemy starts to laugh at you.

So progressing speed is the reaction. Amount of time for information to go from point A to point B and be useful. I don't think F steel is the only way to get use out of F zinc. Connor McGregor with Feruchemical zinc vs Connor McGregor without Feruchemical zinc is going to go in the favor of the zinc user far far more often than the dumb luck you would have to have to win without it.

I think we can agree that zinc may not be the one stop shop that steel is. That much is obvious. Zinc in the case of fullborn vs windrunner certainly will play a role because it offers synergy with all of the other powers. As for 65:35 or whatever number we want to toss out. That is the whole point of feruchemy. Tap more gain more. Intuition and intuitive leaps are what zinc does. We can stop thinking of it as a process of running through millions of possibilities (my lack of understanding here). It isn't just that you are thinking through and choosing the best options from a catalog of options. It is that your brain comes to those realizations on its own. Zinc would likely be most useful for figuring out the actions outside of the more immediate melee combat (though it still plays a huge role there due to the plethora of other enhancements and sensory benefits). Zinc is going to allow the fullborn to adjust space and timing and likely take the edge off of any taunting moves and feigns that the windrunner may attempt. Zinc will keep the fullborn calm and collected as they will know what the immediate threats are and what are not as well as creating intuitive leaps working through any problem-solving that may arise from range / surge specific attacks.

That is why one of the top of my list characters is: TLM spoilers:

Take that and apply it to someone who is trained and you have the optimal moves happening again. 1 million possibilities and only 1 works. This action is step 1 to realizing that possibility. Zinc does allow intuitive leaps. Those leaps do cross over to martial application and combine with the enhanced senses to give the earliest and fastest responses possible in the most efficient way possible. Limitless fight scene in the train station. Every move is telegraphed in one way or another. The earlier you notice these telegraphed moves (via tin) the earlier you can process the next best step. This is exactly how the rules play in the MAG as well. In the MAG atium let's you choose your actions after everyone else and adds bonuses to each action and take those actions first. Compounded zinc doesn't add bonuses but it does allow you to choose your actions after everyone else in addition to taking your action whenever you so desire during the round and it allows you to infact change your action mid round if you so desire. (In the MAG each round is broken into an action declaring phase and then the actual rolling of dice. Being able to choose what you want to do after everyone else is based on the players wit like an initiative roll. Zinc boosts wit and allows you to choose what you want to do to be the most efficient and effective option after your opponent chooses what they want to do. Being able to change your mind is punished by everyone except the person who has F zinc because of the intuitive leaps and ability to process all information at once.) This is all just the game mechanics... while not strictly cannon provides a Brandon approved thought process and idea of how the powers would work. I feel like the argument against zinc is that you aren't fast enough or don't have enough time to do anything about it. You are still pewter enhanced with tin feeding information faster than normal (Spook was able to outmanuever a pewterarm without being a trained fighter and just off of his early sensory mechanisms alone!) You also have F iron to play around with and Wax stays lower weight just for the nimbleness... add that ontop of the pewter enhancements and zinc is totally worth tapping in combat. All of this is not even to mention that you could well be burning electrum and compounding chromium as well. Perhaps zinc isnt the I win button on its own but take 2 totally equal people in speed strength and martial know how and give just 1 of them Feruchemical zinc and that person is going to pull off the W more often than not.

So deadeyes are different than dead spren? On the coppermind it mentioned a spren being drug into the physical and dying being able to be reanimated. Likely it is that it is in human form in the physical thus ruining the possibility of a shardblade anyways? Or could you awaken and make them lifeless commanding them into the form of a shardblade potentially? Or they would just resemble a lifeless human at that point and nothing more.

I was picking through the coppermind and became interested in deadeye spren. Do you think you could awaken one? Perhaps not getting access to surges but even awakening one enough to instantly form into whatever shardweapon you picture in your mind would be a big deal, and, depending on your morality, might be more efficient way to obtain a shardblade than the nightblood route.

Are both fighters at their most average selves or are they both in their prime? Either way you have 2 people who are extremely skilled at killing their enemies and one of them gets to play on a 10 minute clock where the other has a 1 minute clock. This is going to have a huge benefit to the one with the time to think through each move. The only way that time split difference doesn't matter is if the odds are a total monkey vs someone with basic understanding of how things work. The guy who can process 10x the amount of info in the same timeframe is going to have a large advantage. This is far more important when combined with f zinc. As stated before, Spook likened his abilities to being the closest thing to atium. We know any form of precog is so potent that atium gets banned from these discussions in the first post or two of all of these discussions. Take Spook level senses minus any downsides plus 10x the processing power and you are pushing into serious precog territory. That isnt even counting compounded chromium as well which is, for what we know, straight precog without shadows... just the spidey senses of the world. Fullborn isnt just spiderman... it is spiderman + daredevil + the hulk + Dr. Strange with the timestone. Fighting the Hulk with spidey and sonar sense along with the ability to pull a Dr. Strange thinking out all of the possible scenarios and knowing exactly what one would give them the best chance? Again, I think you underestimate the power of F zinc. We have already beaten the fact that rocking 10-20x normal for a fairly extended duration is trivial for a compounder. To know exactly when you have to move and exactly how far to move. To be able to do all of the processing at that speed... even without steel and just being enhanced by combining pewter, along with F iron weaving to mix up speeds and movements... the fullborn will be nearly untouchable. Revisiting a topic on a time crunch can lead to small mistakes. Don't worry I am well aware we are talking about Radiants. Nale is of the 5th ideal but he is also a cognitive shadow and shouldn't be taken as the standard what 5th ideal means or can do. If spren can be given the commands from range to utilize any surge you would think Nale wouldn't need to show up to kill truthwatchers in training or chase down little kid edgedancers right? Just command a spren to vaporize the subject from afar anyways. This point is beyond moot. How was the fullborn created? Either via the mega millions powerball winning genetics, via being born a feruchemist and then receiving lerasium, or recently spiked for all of their powers. Lerasium level mistborn might not have as much finesse but they would make up for it in raw power. Natural born fullborn have their entire lives to practice and learn their abilities. Radiants have precisely the amount of time from the oath that first unlocked that portion of their abilities. Unless our fullborn in question is a freshly created hemalurgic construct with more spikes than Death himself... this argument is far from genuine as well. I am quite curious about the mechanics to RL. Does the windrunner need to make contact with the object they are setting the reverse lashing up on? Do they need contact to retrieve the stormlight that is holding the bond? Besides the point here, but if a fullborn slams a coin into a held object it really doesnt matter if you drop the RL so long as the fullborn is a few thousand lbs and continuing the shove. You are still going to get sent the other way. Once they stop pushing that might fall but you are still just dropping their weapon for them to push and pull on some more.

I believe the 1 breath command should work. Larkin lifeless that would not be consuming all of your breaths would be great. Zombie leeching bat is straight up my #1 cosmere hope.

I have had this weird weird vision of a mistborn using breaths to awaken a small pack of Whitespines and piercing their carapace with metal only to have a vicious pack of predators to chase after their target and use the animals themselves as moving anchors to continually jump with. What command would you give to your lifeless whitespine army to make this possible? Would a simple "follow me" allow yourself to select which one to shove off of at any given time and set your trajectory based off of the angle of the Whitespine you are using? Do you think you could accurately select which ones to push off of if they were simply commanded to chase down a specific target and allowed them to home in on it while you try to stick with them? I always loved the idea of Vin never touching the ground slashing and chopping her way through koloss from above just pushing off of their swords. Figured whitespine are probably heavy enough that they shouldn't be too impaired if you shove off of them while they are sprinting below you. Another question would be this. Could you awaken and create a lifeless larkin and command it to feed on specific targets? I imagine its urge to feed would be suppressed by the whole being dead thing... but I also figure Klod would eat if commanded to right?

I would say your fast twitch muscles may not get into position any faster than what they can get into position with F zinc but the strength that it does offer is that every reaction will be the most optimal. Like running a chess engine and choosing the optimal move every time. Zinc isn't powerful because it gets you into position faster. Its powerful because every move it closer to a winning position than the one before. Combine that with Allomantic pewter or F steel all you want and you still have a person who's reactions and processing are far beyond what a normal person can do. To return to a chess analogy... zinc alone would be like Magnus Carlson having a 10 minute clock va Magnus Carlson having a 1 minute clock... add in the powers to amp up your fast twitch speed and you only amplify that time difference. How? The only difference is that Vin is not a feruchemist. If she had access to feruchemy in that metalmind she would have instantly known what was possible. Vin says she could sense there was a power there she just couldn't touch it. That wasn't for lack of feruchemy even. That was 100% lack of identity. We know that if you can access a metalmind identity wise you could burn it and gain the benefits of compounded attributes (or maybe it is better to say that you would have the ability to fuel that attribute with the allomantic power from the spiritual realm). Had Sazeds metalmind been identityless it would have worked. And if Vin had the feruchemy to store her own attribute and then burn it she would have known as well. Wax went through the mental process of breaking down that bullet and cartridge. This is just another point to F zinc. He would be able to process out those thoughts far faster and would likely be far more efficient with zinc due to being able to process all of that information even faster. Working through every scenario in the time he chooses to make his muscles do what he wants. I can see that difficulty. I haven't read far enough into SA to really speak about what a 4th ideal can do. I feel like the fullborn we pretty well understand there is very little limit in place for them. Sure a mistborn isn't as skilled in specific metals as a misting but there is no questioning in combat the mistborn wins 99% of the time because even a more basic understanding of each metal has so much synergy with the others. The real argument is that noone really knows what is possible for anyone at the 5th heightening. For all we know you only achieve the 5th heightening when it is time for you to die. Mutual destruction is my thoughts on how it would ultimately end up. As for experience. Was the fullborn made or born? I figure feruchemy is mostly granted via genetics and the odds of us having a fullborn that is not lerasium strength is far lower than a fullborn who was born and has no atium. The back and forth of stripping powers really shows where the strengths lie. When the fullborn is no longer a fullborn and instead we are piecing together an inquisitor that is on a similar level of being disingenuous as assuming the windrunner can't just poo stormlight and impose his will on every portion of the world around him. Honestly I didn't read too much of the last pages. I figure RL doesn't really matter if melee is the goal. Are we still going off of the idea that windspren can rip the fullborn apart while the windrunner floats safely in orbit a few planets away? In all seriousness I feel like any RL with the intent of blocking a projectile does little more than create a new anchor point for the fullborn. You have a guy who can become as heavy or as light as they want and you are carrying a shield to stop the incoming metal. To RL it to a wall or the ground would be more ideal as the windrunner at least isn't carrying a moving anchor for the fullborn... but it does open up more mobility options for the fullborn. To RL it to a held shield would be a poor option as the fullborn could increase their weight 10 or 20 fold and then toss the windrunner like a ragdoll, plus whatever damage a projectile being flung where the power of the push comes from the size of the individual would deal.

That's what I thought. The strat of throw a handful of projectiles and then rip them back and forth as fast as possible through your enemy is perfectly viable. Won't do much vs someone in plate (though you could easily ramp your weight far higher than the radiant even in full plate)

I keep reading thoughts about not being able to push or pull through certain objects and people. How did Vin kill all of those people with iron and steel using a single belt buckle if she was unable to yoink on the metal once it passed through a body?

Yes. Stormlight just does to much and this idea that you can destroy their entire chest cavity but they don't even need to breathe it in anymore kind of drives me even more nuts. Now if you are a radiant and get your body blown up, so long as there are filled gems nearby, you just get to absorb the healing power and grow back together by virtue of existing in the same space as some infused gems. Honestly my #1 issue with the cosmere right there. I really wish we could see how a returned or godking manipulates breaths to heal... I keep praying our demonstration of returned not healing gets proved wrong eventually. Gotta figure Vasher has taken some pretty bad wounds in his lifetime.

Thanks for these. Yes I agree... Although if I was a mistborn I certainly would not decline offer of F-gold whether through spike or medallion I don't think I would care. I hate immortal characters but dang I also hate my character dying haha.

I read the original Mistborn Trilogy back in 2010 and got my uncle, dad and grandparents into it. After they read it they branched out and read more Brandon Sanderson. I spent the next 11 years having next to no life and didn't read anything for recreation... 11 years of them telling me about Brandon's other books and me not reading anything else. Then I started asking questions about mistborn again after seeing a YouTube about the MAG... then I discovered the coppermind which led me to the 17th shard. I quickly consumed era 2 of Mistborn and started reading about magic swords. I got 3 hours into Way of Kings and it just wasn't doing it for me. I decided to try Warbreaker out and tore through that in a weekend. Then I started back into SA. This may be a sin to say but I don't particularly care for SA. The first 2 books were great but I am still stuck on Oathbringer. It just bores me so bad with how busted Radiant healing is. I have no real fear for any of the main characters. Literally the only thing that makes me keep reading here and there is the Warbreaker cast reappearing and the promise of the other systems emerging on Roshar. I was gonna finish up Oathbringer but then TLM came out and my wife convinced me to pursue my masters. So OB might just be my stopping point for another 10 years haha. (Hopefully not)

I think Warbreaker is just so important to SA. It breaks my heart when people read SA without having read warbreaker and I talk about the characters who crossed over and get weird looks. Warbreaker might as well be a prerequisite for SA if you want to really enjoy the headscratch moments of people cursing colors and weird non spren talking swords. When Szeth gets asked "hello, want to destroy evil?" My heart leapt and it was one of the greatest moments in all of the cosmere. Because I read Warbreaker first. When Zahel curses the lack of good analogies and metaphors I got all giddy too. For a 20 hour book Warbreaker is so horribly underrated... and with the crossovers I really do encourage everyone who wants to read SA to check it out first.

Allomancy I have to take either pewter or tin. They both give so much quality of life bonuses. Feruchemy. Its got to be steel, zinc, or gold. Bullet time, instant wit, and the ability to say no to a cold or papercut when they are becoming annoying are all so wonderful. I can't just pick 2. Pewter and zinc probably would be my favorite combo. Pewter can help you shrug off pain or sickness and moderately speed up recovery times while zinc can help for all the RP that comes with real life. I don't really do anything that makes needing steel or gold a top priority. While tin would be great I think pewter just fills all of the physical enhancement I could ever feasibly need while allowing zinc to round out the edges.

It is totally possible that the combat mechanics of iron haven't been worked out yet because of our subject pool. A feruchemist scholar and a ranged combatant with no access to other attribute storage. Iron tapping makes you more sluggish and slower. Also it doesn't really make you denser or increase toughness the way A pewter does. I think the biggest reason Sazed didn't use it was because he didn't know how to fight or what to do. Rereading chapter 53 of WoA it is really obvious that he had no idea what he could do. His first tapping of pewter he talks about not needing as much as he tapped and backing it down only to be disappointed that he used too much and wasted it all while wishing he had tapped more. He says again the next page over something along the same lines, wishing he had been storing weight more often. I also imagine that throwing a big heavy hand could be just as dangerous to the feruchemist in that bones could easily break and you are just moving slower to the point where you may not hit what you want to anyway. To effectively use iron feruchemy you really need something else to help you. Either strength and healing or strength and durability would be needed to successfully throw an attack and not be injured by it yourself. I get that it isn't purely cannon but Brandon was okay enough with pewter adding damage that he not only mentions this here but also in the MAG irons whole thing is tap more and deal more damage. I think iron on its own would be really really difficult to use in combat. But we are talking about a fullborn who will have access to all of the strength, speed and healing that they could need to make use out of it.

When striking the weight of the whole body helps out. The same punch thrown at 2 different weights should exert force proportionally to the whole no matter what weight they are at.

The books have countless examples of iron being used to destroy the world around the feruchemist. But due to having no specific examples of a punch deleting a persons face it is accepted that a person must be airborne for a strike to use the increased mass against the intended target... unless the intended target is inanimate.

I figured it out though. So long as Sazeds body wasn't touching the ground during his spear then it works fine. If there is connection to the ground then iron doesn't work except against any potential opponents. This actually works out well for the radiant as in order to use iron the fullborn cannot be connected to the ground. But if you stored your connection to the ground while throwing a punch would you still be grounded and not gain any benefit from mass or would you still have jump up a couple inches before you can gain combat benefits from it. And in the WoB it was specifically punches that it doesn't work for. So while grounded you could still throw elbows, knees and kicks while gaining the benefit no matter your current level of connection to the ground.

The slight increase of strength gets more than offset by the fact that everything is heavier. You still move slower. So the hammer swing would already be going slower than even his normal bodyweight would have let him move I thought. Hence Wax's ability to move around lighter and quicker while specifically storing iron even though it takes away a measure of his baseline strength. Either way if we retcon the scene to be that Brandon just unintentionally forgot to include that Sazed took a small hop and was 1/2 an inch off of the floor for the strike then iron totally explains it as well.

They would both have to be stupid to want to fight eachother. Don't they know they should be combining forces to defeat odium and autonomy?