DoctaDajman

So Zahel vs Kaladin was one of my favorite little sparring sessions to ever read but I wonder how that would have ended if they really wanted eachother dead. I know this is a weird vs battle and its really not a Vasher vs Kaladin in that way but more a question about awakening and how to deal with the mechanics... Kaladin was able to cut the awakened straps holding him but how well would that strat work if they were wrapped around his neck? How strong are awakened cloths and ropes? It takes a lot to break even thin rope far beyond normal human capabilities. As I look at RPG mechanics I wonder how do you balance a character where you can create multiple ropes to slither up and around your enemies and constrict them to death? If Vasher lands a sash on an enemy and it quickly slithers to wrap up around their neck how do they deal with it? How do you even fit your fingers under a sash that is squeezing for all of its tensile strength worth? How quick does strangulation drain healing while a person is wrestling and trying to stop other sashes from tying them up as well? Love Kal but I think he would have been a dead radiant pretty quick if Zahel decided it was really go time. Even if he killed Zahel the ribbons wrapped around his neck would likely be permanent accessories until he ran out of stormlight in my opinion. Why did the awakeners in Warbreaker not highlight this strat more?

Plate was my favorite part of this. But then I thought of a living blade that (in my opinion) is going to be able to shape shift. Oh man. As I ran around looking for a cutter to cut a deck of cards with yesterday (made the kid a magic deck) and just came up snake eyes every time. I have to say having a tiny shardknife would have been so freaking handy in that moment. I really want to get into bow making this next year with fiberglass and thinking how much safer my lungs would be if I could cut it with a shardknife instead of saying it and creating fiberglass powder. Or when my wife inevitably wants upgrades to the chicken coop... another perfect use for a spren buddy that can shape into whatever tool I need and cut perfectly everytime. As long as I am not working with aluminum it should all be good! Did I forget a hammer? Nope. Did I misplace the pliers? Nope. Do I have to carry a Tool bag or have a Tool shed at all? Nope. Got my dope spren pal who will make me what I need when I need it. Do I need extra hands to hoist around that last load of concrete? Nope. Shardplate to the rescue.

I think it does but it leads me to other questions... of course. Is life sense only on the physical or is the awakener sensing something spiritual in those around them? Would wearing armor block your lifesense like coppercloud might? Would living plate allow you to lifesense outside of it, due to more connection and possibly a bond of sorts, even if dead plate was a no?

I can see that. But the blade and plate are now living. You can summon them into existance when needed or wanted. The car just has to carry you and you can be protected at an instants notice right? Totally worth imo. As for the breaths. You and @alder24make great points. The passive effects of breaths are always useful and always on. How great would it be to enter the Fantasia scene with the mops cleaning the house except I get to control those mops! Being a mistborn would be epic and fun. But life is good without it. I like the protection of plate too much and if I need extra strength I would rather power armor that lifts a car for me than pewter that helps me lift less and has the downside of potential pewter drag dangers.

Is shardplate invested enough to suppress and hide biochromatic aura or does the aura permiate through and make the plate more vibrant as well?

I agree. Compounding is pretty busted. I give mistborn 9/10 against 1st and 2nd ideal. Radiant takes it 9/10 at 3rd and probably 10/10 at 4th. Against deadshards its a bit more even. Against living shards which is Unoathed... 9/10 to the Unoathed is my guess. Either way the mistborn plays the game it has to play the way it has to play it. Its like old school WoW rock paper scissors. Warriors are rock. Rogues are scissors. Paladins, priests, hunters, druids, mages, and shamans are paper. Scissors beats paper. Rock beats scissors. Rock also beats paper. Warlocks are mushrooms. In cosmere terms I would say mistborn get to play the role of scissors. Living shards just happen to be the rock. How does the mistborn deal with magical armor capable of healing itself directly? It... just... doesnt...

Straight up, a car accident is exactly where my mind settles as well when thinking durability. (I think maybe that scene from the movie Due Date with the car accident just is imprinted in my mind and survive unharmed from a car accident is like the pinnacle of luck and durability for me. Plus I see to many sad traumas from car wrecks... I wish everyone could have plate for that). The only downside I see to plate is the weight. Although this has had me thinking for some time... if windspren are capable of flight on their own, and capable of moving even as plate... if you had a set of living windrunner (or skybreaker) plate do you think the spren could fly/float enough to make them effectively weightless? I love plate but I dont dig the idea of crashing through my floor into my basement if I summon it and am suddenly weighing near a ton. In other thoughts... living plate would basically make me the juggernaut which would be cool.

Thanks tons. I will listen!

I know the feeling. Any other time I would have gone with the breath. But the living shards, even without being radiant, are just too much fun. I want to take them for hikes and to do yard work so bad. Shardplate would make moving 4 cords of wood so much easier of a task prepping for winter. Honestly I would get some land and just carve out my entire living situation from the hill... a shard made Hobbit hole would be epic! Think about the blade turning into whatever tool I need for the job. Cut a rock, turn the blade into a set of clamps to grab the rock and yoink it wherelese it needs to go next.

I live in this space as well. I am always looking for interactions and I am so stoked to see all of the systems meet.

Here's a new thought experiment for you all. Once upon a time I would have taken the breath. Its still a close call for me. But those unoathed living shards are something else. I can live just fine with none of these... I have been for 35 years. But dang a set of living shards just checks the rool of cool for me. My dislike for shardplate before had more to do with the healing of radiants leaving a bad taste in my mouth and the idea of hauling around dead plate and putting it on seemed awful. But living plate that I can use... even just for fun back woods stuff... too dang dope. And if the shardblades can change shape one day (I estimate they can with the shardcast crew) then the ability to have just about any tool at anytime that I need is way too epic to pass up.

I had a similar concern but it seems that living plate creates ventilation. Jasnah says that plate ventilates so it probably would work just fine. Bottom line... for someone born without powers, and as cool as becoming a mistborn might be... I would take a set of Unoathed shards over Lerasium any day of the week.

I haven't thought of a play list. I will make one in time! Yes I read WoK WoR and OB. OB is really what killed the series for me. I thought the first 2 books were fantastic. Then I saw the power creep entering, and that, combined with the chapters of woe is me, ruined it for me. But I think a list of chapters would be great! I know for sure I want to see Vasher face off against anyone (especially the feruchemist). I also know now that I want to see all of the Unoathed. Probably I should listen to descriptions of living plate as well. And the stoneward dude with the towershield. I want to see him fight. Thanks for the idea. I appreciate it!

Exactly. Here is the trick. I have often believed that a mistborn could beat 90% of 2nd ideal radiants, touch them, leech them, beat them to death. But the blade of the 3rd ideal swings it into the radiants favor 90% because the mistborn can no longer safely touch the radiant to leech and they will infinitely heal. Adding plate from the 4th ideal I think takes them to a place where even a fullborn would struggle. While a shardbearer loses to the mistborn because they have no healing and no surges and the plate will leak after long enough. The first duralumin steel push gets the plate leaking and then stay in the air until the plate locks up. But the Unoathed are so interesting. They have no healing for themselves but their shards are all living and plugged directly into the recharging station that is the Spiritual realm. So if the mistborn could get through it they would probably win because there is no healing for the Unoathed. But with their armor having continuous auto healing that is infinite, although probably not enough to maintain through all hits in a short timeframe, I dont see a single round of duralumin pushed steel doing the job. And as I have said, if they turned blade into a tower shield, I literally dont see a way for the mistborn to even crack the plate. I dont think a duralumin steel assisted cannonball would be enough to break a shardshield. I think it is going to have to come down to some kind of anti-investiture.

Mostly RL time constraints. Then it comes down to my dislike of stormlight and the healing factors of Radiants. I think infinite healing was done in a really fun way with Miles but I dont dig it on Roshar. I feel like the stakes are really low for all of the Radiants. For each being demigods in strength they are kind of awful at winning battles and stopping the end of the world. And I really don't enjoy reading the mental illness battles. The story doesnt do it for me. I like the cosmere for the magic. The books exist more like campaign settings in my mind and the mechanics are what excite me. So if I find a spare 120+ hours I may turn it on but life demands more of my time than I have to split with Roshar. I do own the books on audible however. And I am the scummiest of scum when it comes to spoilers. I will literally listen to a chapter or two, completely out of context, just to see a magic that I love. The only bit of RoW I have read was Kaladin facing off against Vasher because I dig awakening and really enjoy seeing non natives to a magic system describe and explain that system. My favorite moments in SA so far are the weird looks Vasher gets for cursing colors and hues and playing strange games. I will say though, Adolin is my favorite stormlight character (mostly because he isnt a radiant and doesnt use stormlight) and knowing he gets a level up makes me want to read more about it.

I see. Thanks for that. Another thought, if there is a bonding of some kind between shards and the user how close is it to other bonds? I am sure that Vin, Zane, Wax, or even Marsh were able to maintain the ability to hear ruin through a spike while in a coppercloud as well. I know ruin is a Shard and significantly invested as such but I wonder if the bond exists it would probably still exist within a coppercloud no? Do we see any radiants or unoathed, or any shardbearer for that matter summon a blade at all from within the room? I dont think that not being able to summon from within an aluminum box necessarily equates to mean you cant within a coppercloud but if it happened I would say it absolutely shows you can within a coppercloud.

Brilliant. I never finished that one. Thank you.

I am not sure of this but just heard on the Shardcast for Unoathed that Adolin summoned his plate while in an aluminum box, being the throne room. If this is true then I would say that absolutely dispells any idea that a coppercloud could stop it. If aluminum doesnt stop the summoning of shards I cant imagine the weakest of allomantic metal uses would.

One could say that it isnt fair to put a person born magical against a person who only has magical armor and sword. The systems are meant to be different. If atium were allowed there would likely be a lot different outcomes. Atium is gone though. I dont think being in a city block with thousands of anchors would make a difference. It would just lead to the combatants having a small skirmish and then the mistborn realizing they need to hide and try to assassinate the unoathed when their guard is down. And that is how Brandon has talked about Kel vs Kal matchups... from the point of view that a mistborn is not an overt soldier or duelist on the same level as a shardbearer or radiant. The books were written to reflect this. Roshar is high fantasy armies clashing from the start. Every bit of magic is meant for battle field control. Mistborn just arent. Mistborn was meant to be Oceans 11 meets magic not Braveheart or Troy. They have 18 magic powers we know of right now and only 4 of those are outright meant for offensive fighting prowess... pewter, steel, iron, and atium. The books highlight all of the metals to an extent but they are used to help the mistborn in every avenue of life. Unoathed have magical armor and swords. 1 purpose. Killing hordes on the battlefield. Not born with magic to help them in life. Mistborn are beneficiary to being a demigod on the battlefields of medieval times surrounded by armor on a battlefield, and technology is already out pacing them. Dont be mad that a magical suit of armor and blade outclass them in an arena when they already are susceptible to aluminum bullets at home. They just arent the same. What tastes more like an apple, an orange or an apple? Right? The mistborn doesnt win the battle in the arena against a prepared Unoathed. They win by soothing their way into the courts and then steelpushing and Ironpulling their way to the unoathed bedroom and night and leveraging pewter to blitz the unoathed in their sleep before they can react. It is what the systems are created for. This is why any comparison between the planets themselves have to consider modern conventional weapons against magical suits of armor as well. If shardplate gets crippled against 5.56 rounds and the Scadrians dont have to bust out 50cal machine guns to deal with it... then the complaint can be the other way and Roshar is completely outclassed. As it is the systems arent meant to be balanced and the fight is set in an arena that forces the 2 to actually fight. Why? Because they mistborn would choose to not fight and run instead once they realized their steelpushes didnt hurt the shardbearer. The mistborn is in a great position to get in and get out. But why would they choose to get back in once they saw their main attack was useless? And if the mistborn ever chose to go in for a melee attack they would likely learn the hardway what the shardblade does. Bingo. Honestly. The Unoathed are what I needed to get stoked about Roshar again. A part of the system that isnt suffering from infinite powercreep.

Perhaps this should be taken more to the unoathed vs mistborn. I would say, however that speculation works both ways when looking at these things. Unfortunately, speculation can rather quickly spiral out of control and turn into not kind ways of examining these theoretical vs battles. I haven't read the scenes with unoathed. All I know about them is what I have read here. That is that the shards are living again. I assume that the 10 seconds necessary for summoning is the spren passing from the cognitive to physical. Living blades summon instantly because they already exist in the realm. That could be wrong but it is as speculative as assuming a coppercloud can stop a blade from summoning in the first place. Speculation alone.

Living blades are just spren who are chilling in the physical realm all the time and have the ability to turn into a blade. Syl isnt just chilling in the cognitive whispering to Kaladin's mind. She is all over the map and can appear instantly into his hand when needed. Could you provide any quotes of copperclouds being used? We are remembering copperclouds quite differently. Remember the basic coppercloud can already be pierced by a misting with hemalurgy. Spren are far more invested than that. This shows that a very skilled coppercloud may be able to shield others from zinc and brass but it is not the normal user.

I believe we have seen copperclouds block it for the user... not projected outwardly to block it for others. And with living plate and blade it likely doesnt matter because the spren is in the physical realm. It would be like saying a coppercloud stops a squad of hazekillers from communicating and being effective at working together. The spren is already in the physical.

Could they make small, tiny pores? Like my shoes that allow my feet to breathe? Sealing the suit seems legit but a person shouldnt be forced to hold their breath the whole time they are fighting. I imagine shardplate does breathe in some way... even with the power armor esq strength enhancements you still are exerting yourself to an extent and would need to breathe. I hate rebreathing hot breath even under the blankets. I have to assume there is ventilation of sorts in there as well.

He has as much proof as there is to assert that a coppercloud could stop it. There is a lot of proof that copperclouds hide things and dont stop or block them. Heck copperclouds dont even stop the use of bronze. You can seek as much as you want while a coppercloud is going. You just wont hear anything. I think @Treamayne answered with some solid reasoning to what could or could not be blocked. I agree with him that the deadeye blade may not be able to hear the summoning attempt where a living blade is already on the same realm and it would have less effect. In fact I think that Syl shows us that she has a ton of control over her blade forms and states in WoR. She seems to be calling out what she needs to become as Kaladin is needing it. In the case of an Unoathed... if the spren recognizes the users need I am sure they will just do it.

Yeah they may lose a sword from just the torque on the wrist, even with plate, following the flat of a blade catching a duralumin push. The shield would likely not as they are designed to be held onto and the mechanics would be different in handheld. A primitive gun, even with a larger round would likely be more effective against the eyeslit as they shot softer lead. The larger bullet covers more surface area as it hits and what is hitting the eyeslit would likely shear away and puncture the eyes and face behind it. Good point on sealing the helm. Translucent armor makes this an even stranger fight for the mistborn because it would be even stranger to see someone not wearing visible armor absorbing shots and disrupting steel lines.