therunner

You require F-steel though, without it you cannot act on those thoughts. Basically i see F-zinc as F-steel applied solely to Frontal Cortex, as that is what Wax showed. Vin tried to burn metalmind, that is not the same thing as figuring out Compounding. Per multiple WoBs there is a trick to it, and it is not as straightforward as that, at least at first time. If it was that easy, Inquisitors have to be incredibly dumb to not think of it. Simple thing, time and focus. We are told in books that Mistborn don't master metals to the same extent as Mistings do. If you have 16 years, and you practice with each metal equally, you will be 1/16 as skilled as Misting who focused just on single metal. Sure it is not that precise (some metals possibly require less time), however for most of the fancy stuff from WoBs you require practice and lot of it. Edit: You might be burning the metals at the same time, but you are not focusing on them and exploring them to the same extent Misting does. Instead you learn the synergies, and how they work together. Vin is also repeatedly stated to be prodigy, and extraordinarily skilled. Marsh was basically piloted by Ruin for most of that year, plus whatever mental things happen to Inquisitors. Wax did that once when 15 and then few more times nearly 30 years later, he is not doing it all the time (even when it would be useful), so it is clearly non-trivial even for someone with a lot of practice and skill. If we assume that somehow Fullborn is skilled as Kelsier with steel/Iron, F-Iron more then Wax, can use Bronze to pinpoint enemies better then we have seen etc. , but somehow Windrunner is unable to properly use Reverse Lashing to protect from 2-3 directions, then yeah I think discussion about skill is needed. Assuming that Fullborn is master of all, but Windrunner is average in their far less numerous skills seems disingenuous to me. Sure that is what I was assuming up until ~page ago, until the discussion that somehow Windrunner is unable to use RL properly, while Fullborn is more skilled then Kelsier.

Her perception was also sped up ~40-45x times (if moving at Mach 1), and even then she mentions she saw pockets of vacuum and only briefly. So if the vacuum formed only for ~0.0023 seconds, it would translate to 0.1 seconds of her perception which would still be noticeable. 500 m/s is good approximation for speed (it was freezing so the speed would be lower by ~5%), and in that time the air would travel 1 meter, so there is a discrepancy. Also, the pockets must have been small, otherwise they would have made quite noticeable sound. However, the gap is not that gigantic. Edit: Two more funny things: The air/vacuum shockwave actually moves far faster, typically around ~1700m/s, and she clearly was not moving at those speeds (the sonic boom would be huge). The speeds at which you can create not even vacuum, just even region of 1% air density are ~2-3000 m/s for large objects. For smaller object they would be magnitude greater (circa 20000 m/s). Basically, what happens there is incredibly out of order and the side-effects on people nearby would be basically deadly, if we take it at face value.

Wait a moment, so 24 ccs was meant for each individual metal? Man I misunderstood that. Reusing the wild-guess calculation from vs thread (copied below for clarity), that would estimate BoM can hold ~17000 months worth of stored speed. Which using formula for time tapping after loss T/n *5/6 * (3/5)^(n-1), leads to ~12 seconds of slightly beyond Mach 1 speed, which could be pushed a little bit further I think for something around ~400 m/s speed for 2-3 seconds. I am surprised that the wild guess continues to be broadly in line with what we are seeing.

Additional point added to OP.

I think so, though I don't have time to look for WoB. Per Era 2, concrete walls basically block lines effectively. Alright. We have not seen 'the other' under-go great acceleration due to it, so we cannot really say. I think it either applies to both or to neither, and if to both, both have equal means of dealing with the effects. I.e. both parties are equally hindered. Not really, how is it better? If Fullborn sits in building, Windrunner can throw boulders on the building. Can Fullborn survive what is basically orbital strike with kinetic weapon? (If Windrunner took time to prepare, or just put a lot of lashings on the boulder). So you need to master 3 powers, have high skill in 5 more? Still need more then twice the time of training than Windrunner would. Without Kel's skill you won't be able to use RL against Windrunner (if that could be done at all), Windrunner is not going to just turn on RL and stop perceiving his surroundings, they are not dumb. Push/pull through walls is question of raw power not skill. Per WoB A-Electrum mastery can take years. F-Zinc just lets you think faster, not react faster (from what we saw in BoM). Kel was not average skill, he was possibly more skilled then Vin with steel/iron (she herself calls him master of steel/iron like Mistings are master of their metal). He was one of the two most skilled users we have seen. Inquisitors did not manage to learn to compound at all, so it takes a year at minimum, most likely more. Edited for clarity So 1 year to learn to compound, several years to compound enough stores (2 let's say), 2-3 years to master steel/iron (if the Fullborn happens to be as talented as Kelsier or Vin, more if they are 'average'), 2 years to master Electrum, 2-3 years to master Tin (like Spook), and we are already at 9-11 years. F-zink and F-gold won't need much practice I think, but if you want to use F-Iron to assist in high-speed maneuvering, you will need time again ~2-3 years at minimum, putting the estimate at 11-14 years. And they basically ignored every other metal (so no detecting people with pinpoint accuracy using bronze, or practice with Duralumin for any tricks etc.). Kal has 2 years, and has no advantage of having trainers with his powers (like all the Mistings and Mistborn, and Ferring/Feruchemist did), so he had to rediscover everything from scratch. Give Windrunner 11-14 years with trainers, and they will outclass Kaladin by quite a margin I expect.

Ah, I see. I think it ends up being mostly the same though, however in your variation you don't get cancelling of the forces (since you are pushing on both), but it is also only applicable when the objects is closer to you then its linear dimensions (because if it is further away, the vectors will be too similar to produce effect). I think you would end up with relatively gradual slope, that would end up approaching just line, as the object is far enough (i.e. distance >> size of object). It still retains the issue that the resulting force is proportional to the size of the object (if you push on extreme ends) and also proportional to inverse of distance. Edit: And thinking about it a bit more, it would again be only applicable if you have the right object, appropriately positioned with respect to Windrunner already. All the Windrunner have to do to avoid strike like this is move away from the plane of the object/forces.

No, he came up with it while writing a book, in one WoB he talks about how it was added it to match reader expectations. Yup, they would just get added up (unless you found a way to lash only part of yourself, which is possible, similar to the push/pull on part of object trick). Apply thousands of lashings to yourself, and if it acted like gravitation does IRL, Windrunner would not care. 1 Lashing or Million, it would make no difference to them (outside of acceleration). It is theorized, however that does not make it fact. Also, we don't know what kinds of Connection can be stored with F-Duralumin, and in what way. For all we know it is ability to form certain kinds of connections, or just connections in general. Happy to help. C-tin steelsight will allow you to see the metal, but will not let you push on it more strongly. Steelsight let's you see all sorts of things you cannot push on. What? To RL it makes no difference if it is pushing into it from from, or pulling into it from back. Both have G-forces, there really is no reason why not. That required savantism, not just A-tin. This is not running away, setting up steel/iron to steer something into windrunner is more complicated then windrunner simply flying away 1 meter. Kelsier pulled it off because the Inquisitor was caught off-guard, and apparently not very skilled in maneuvering. If Fullborn is somehow skilled enough with steel/iron as Kelsier, with F-Iron more then Wax (who never uses it to maneuver and had over 20 years of practice), with A-Tin as Spook, with A-bronze as someone focusing on that metal, then Windrunner (who has to practice with only 3 powers instead of 32, and does not have to spend time to Compound) is going to be skilled enough to dodge steel/iron, or use RL to render it ineffective. It feels a bit disingenuous to assume that somehow Fullborn is master of all powers, even though we have been explicitly told in the very first Mistborn book that Mistings are the ones who are typically truly skilled in metals, because they can focus on them, while Mistborn are strong because of the interaction and versatility. Fullborn should be even less 'skilled' then Mistborn, because they have twice as many powers to juggle and to learn. It might get you some acceleration, but it will be fractions of the push/pull strength, basically linear in separation of the points in which the forces act and with additional factor that will grow with the distance between Fullborn and object. And it won't work in all positions only some. And the forces will cause the object to rotate so that the part you are pushing is away from you, and the pulled one is pointing to you, which will be diminishing the force as it is happening. So you will get fraction of the push strength, and only for a short amount of time before the objects aligns. Not useful for attacking.

Allomancy does not have any 'in-built' protections, so you can kill yourself with it. Also, while F-Iron does not impart external force, it does lead to change in speed, which reader expects leads to g-forces (this is the rational Brandon gave for Lashing causing g-forces). Surge of Gravitation should not cause G-Forces, since G-forces come from uneven acceleration, but gravitation always accelerates everything equally. Brandon acknowledges that this is only due to reader expectation. So if literally the one force which would not lead to g-forces still causes them, F-Iron should too by all rights. There is, though since then he RAFO'ed what Nicrosil compounding does (which would be the one that could do it). Also, since then he 'retconned' that TLR's allomantic strength was not through Lerasium, or compounding, but because he made himself Mistborn through direct manipulation using power of the Well. Interesting thought, would probably work, though it would require that the flakes are large enough to be used as metalminds (due to thresholds), and a lot of juggling on the fly. Mistborn, Misting, Halfborn, whatever, for all of them metals still do the same things, e.g. weaker lines mean they cannot push/pull on the metals as well. Would F-Duralumin allow for Connection manipulation to help here? Who knows. My point is that the RL pull is so strong, that potential missing shots are pulled directly to it. And it happens so fast, that they are not yet on the level of Radiant, so RL won't turn miss into hit. Why? The only tool that could help with G-Forces is A-pewter, however Stormlight also provides many of the benefits of it and heals damage as it happens. Radiant should be much more resistant to G-Forces than Mistborn (Fullborn is another matter). How does Tin let you pin point them? They are on the other side of the wall, you don't have senses for that. And you don't know what you are pulling on, since you cannot see it. And while Fullborn is doing its best to set this up, Windrunner is just flying away.

So you sort of need to trick yourself into thinking about it as not one object but multiple ones? No it will not curve. The forces still go just to/from Fullborn, there is no way to create any sideways montion (with respect to Fullborn), without Fullborn moving themselves.

If so, why does he not do it repeatedly? I recall only two incidents (one when he was young, and second in BoM if I recall?). Ah, I stand corrected then. Thank you. However, that does not change the fact, that pushing/pulling on different parts of metal will not let Fullborn 'bank' or curve the metal pieces (because of linearity of the forces), for that Fullborn has to move themselves.

Is compounding allowed? If yes, then Steel-twin, then F-Gold, F-pewter, F-Iron, A-chromium spikes. Speed required for dodging them while using F-Pewter or F-Iron pushes to break through plate. After breaking plate, hit head hard with F-pewter and start Leeching. F-gold is to ensure suvivability. Though this tactic won't work against orders that can Soulcast, and orders that use Gravitation can move aside. Without compounding F-steel spike (or in-born power) is required, but not sure if it would be sufficient.

While pewter does protect body a bit (on regular burn), it would be nothing compared to healing any negative effects immediately (holding Stormlight). F-Iron somehow changes speed to conserve momentum, but no notes about it creating or not G-forces. And since literal gravitation somehow causes G-forces, I would expect F-Iron should too. Not confirmed if that is actually possible. What do you mean by investing for controlled D-burn? Thanks Sorry, I did not mean they block them completely, only that weakend lines will mean they cannot effectively use it as a weapons. RL pulls strongly enough to impart hundreds of meters per second to objects (apparently). So I don't see how ricochets would happen. And the Intent seems to be quite crucial, so Intent of 'metallic objects nearby' is sufficient, and they will all get dragged to RL point exactly, with no ricochets. If we take skills demonstrated by only one person ever, then why not assume that Windrunner can show the dodging and fighting skills of Kaladin in pit in WoR? Which should impart a lot of g-forces to Fullborn. Windrunner could maneuver like that, though it might be cost prohibitive. Windrunner can literally maneuver in any way they want, the limiting factors being only Stormlight available (which should be non-issue considering stuff in books) and G-forces (which will affect both him and Fullborn equally). It does not let you pin point them with ~10-20cm precision required to push/pull objects into them. It tells you general location (e.g. +- meter), which is enough to find someone who is hiding, not no-scope them. Wax does it exactly twice (if I remember right) and it took a lot of mental strain/focus. Kelsier did not push on all points of objects. He moved around and used steel/iron in quick conjuction to keep them all moving and in air. And pushing on different points of metallic objects still won't let it move in any other direction then directly away from Fullborn, at most it will start rotating in air. Your example with arching won't work, since the force is always acting on line going through object and Fullborn.

Gravitation can turn even more forcefully than curves, it just requires more lashings to be applied. Mistborn are just as affected by G-forces as Windrunners are, and Mistborn have never been shown to start fainting due to acceleration, so Windrunners are capable of generating acceleration greater than Mistborn (outside of Duralumin usage). Hence, Windrunners can turn more sharply then Mistborn can. (Using Vin PoV from TFE, single coin can generate at most ~3-4 g's of acceleration, if you are standing directly on it. Windrunner can trivially generate equal acceleration). Good point with 'just' going straight through walls, that is an option open to Fullborn. Though I think properly shaped 'shardshield' with small blades on the outside could get Windrunner through wall quite easily (though still not exactly comfortably). But it would require experimentation. How? You cannot pull through walls (unless they are wooden), and bronze won't let you pinpoint someone exactly. Yes it can. Steel/Iron work only in a line from Fullborn to object, so Fullborn can only strike at Windrunner from 2 directions at any single moment. Reverse Lashing held either to the side, or above Windrunner will then pull objects to it. And since Windrunner can maneuver better then Fullborn, Fullborn cannot hope to replicate what Kelsier did (not to mention, that was beyond even Vin's skill).

Wax also does not navigate narrow streets, and only flies in the open typically using lampposts or cars from what I remember. Alright Kaladin is repeatadly called 'tall' so someone around 7 feet is tall even on Roshar, hence someone average can be a bit over 6 feet. Still, but won't stand out on Scadrial as sore thumb. You brought it up, I am just mentioning it is open for both parties And Windrunner can send spren to search in other places (and then immediately summon them back, so no risk for them doing this). Alright conceded. Combination of two facts The WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/41/#e7134) states that the ligthness of Shardblades and heaviness of Nightblood are drawn from same principles, only opposite. From books we know that Shardplate is heavy despite being the same Investiture as Shardblades, showing that lightness of Shardblades is not due to innate property of the Investiture making them up. Hence result is that Shardblades being light has nothing to do with them being solid Investiture. Ah, and I was primarily focused on discussing Invested objects, not physical manifestation of Investiture. It is alright, we all get distracted by some stuff. I got a bit more frustrated then usual yesterday since I had a long train trip behind me, so apologize for being a bit more curt.

What metal in windows? The latches? And street lamps are not present in small narrow streets you were describing as useful for Fullborn. Trash cans are free standing, they would move before the Fullborn would, not useful for high speed navigation. Yeah, but then you have issue that you either have to stick to wooden buildings, or you have little to push/pull on in between newer cinder block/concrete buildings (since those won't have nails). And they typically lack street lamps, and the sharp turns/curves mean that a lot of metallic objects will be obscured, hence they could not be pushed/pulled on. Ok fair. Is there some height requirement on Windrunners I did not know about? And 7ft tall is Kaladin in Earth's foots, not in Rosharan feet (in those he is around 6 feet tall). Since we are in Elendel to give advantage to Fullborn, I might say the Windrunner is quite short Rosharan, standing at only 6 feet Earth feet. [Citation needed] We have no evidence of anything you are saying here. Yeah, we know that, but it has no bearing on the discussion we are having. Yeah, and that is completely different case from what I was talking about. I know F-Iron changes mass, I was just pointing out that that would require changing density by definition, but magic shenanigans conspire for that to not be the case. Except the WoB Frustration quoted shows that why Shardblades are light has nothing to do with them being solid Investiture. IRL full set of plate was at most ~30 kg, so just about ~15-20x the mass of sword. Shardplate is also solid Investiture, and yet it weights around ~440 kg (100 Rosharan stoneweights, 1 stone = 6.3 kg on earth, so 1 Rosharan stone = 4.4 kg) And no, Shardplate does not have ~220x times the volume of Shardblade (who are far larger than regular swords), so clearly there is something else going on with Shardblades (and by extension Nightblood) that is making them light (and hence Nightblood heavy). Again [Citation needed]. Physical manifestation of Investiture (be it solid, liquid or gas) having mass is not the same as e.g. Investiture in spiritweb, or in Invested objects having mass. Then you can make that clear from the start next time? It can be kind of frustrating trying to talk about something, when the other side of conversation is not even trying to discuss it and are doing their own thing.

Which means two things Within narrow corridors/buildings Fullborn is unable to use Steel/Iron to full effect, since they can basically use only what is within the corridors. Because the lines are weak, Fullborn cannot use all the metal to navigate. Objects attached to weaker lines cannot be pushed/pulled as strongly. (Did we ever saw Wax navigate around a city pushing on things behind walls, or did he only use large objects in the open?) Ah, alright then. Still, effectively they can perceive most of their surrounding at once, which is considerable advantage. If they are in interior of building that does not matter as much. Yeah, but the setup you started with was city environment, not Elendel specifically, nor mentioned that we consider people are nearby. Windrunner can then just, you know start walking around (after grabbing some clothes). If they or spren saw the Fullborn, they can watch out for them. God metals are also physical material, not just Investiture. Investiture can be turned into mass, but how much Investiture converts into how much mass we don't know. And the original line of this discussion was pointing out that the only way you can keep density fixed while mass is changing is to assume that density is fundamental thing, and Investiture in being/object then changes how much mass does that density grant. Which is completely different from arguing that Investiture has some mass, and can contribute. Clearly, Investiture in e.g. F-Iron ferrings cannot explain their increase in mass, since otherwise any other Ferring tapping equal amount of attribute should experience increase in mass, which they don't. My argument was that Nightblood would have to incredibly heavy, which he is not. Also, the WoB is quite clear that the mechanism/reason for Nightblood being heavier is the same as the one that makes Shardblades lighter then they should. So it is not question of Investiture content, but something more Involved. Explain Bands of Mourning then. Sure they are not Nightblood, but they should still have noticeable difference in mass. Even if they are 1/20 as Invested it should be noticable, especially after they used up so much of attributes. Also, explain Shardblades or Honorblades. And if all the Investiture in Nightblood weighted only 1 kg, then the formula like m=(p × V) x I makes no sense when trying to explain Iron Feruchemy (which was the point I was trying to disprove), since the Investiture in Ferring is far less then that.

It would be more difficult to push on certainly, though if it would be enough, we don't know. In narrow streets Radiant won't have to use Reverse Lashing in that manner, even brick walls block steelsight (and so pushes) quite well as Wax mentions I think. So there Radiant does not have to worry about that (as much). And in open space it leaves a very specific direction that they would be vulnerable in, and if they are facing Fullborn head on, Fullborn would be unable to take advantage of that due to linear nature of pushes and pulls. They can have completely different field of view, they can easily look in the opposite direction. We don't know to which extent spren's sight relies on CR, or to which extent the 'misty' nature would obscure things. Rosharan CR is full off spheres, and it is relatively easy to spot people in it. Bronze can detect kinetic Investiture and only of certain streght (in this case lashings), if Windrunner would cancel Lashings on themselves they would become invisible to Fullborn. And why is there a crowd suddenly? As @Frustration quoted, that is not due to Nightblood being Invested, but to do with the kind of construct he is. BoM were not described as surprising heavy, Susebron was not heavier (despite being possibly the single most Invested person we have seen with ~50 000 breaths), etc. Overwhelmingly, Investiture does not make objects heavier, Nightblood is outlier not the rule (and there is the opposite outlier in Shardblades, Honorblades). Unable to find anything on it, one way or the other.

Why can't Windrunner have a simple shield in hand? Or just grab something? Fullborn now has entire city to play with, there will be something that can be used as shield. And it could be even metallic I think, since it would become infused by Reverse Lashing, making it more difficult to affect with pushes/pulls. And it would protect their back as well, All they have to do is hold it in hand extended away from themselves. It would not be fool proof, however Reverse Lashing are seemingly strong enough to pull bullets, so pulled/pushed metallic objects will be trivial to get away from Radiant. I agree they are limited, however Windrunner's sight is not the same as spren's sight, so Fullborn has to disappear from both of them, and in such a way as to not be clear how to follow. Basically, Fullborn is not fighting just one person, but two the entire time. Of course, Windrunner could still try to avoid this guerilla style fight by flying above the roofs. In principle you don't have to though, if you can manipulate the fundamental constants, you can keep the same 'stuff' in volume (no adding anything) and just change how the stuff behaves. That would change mass, but also density as consequence. That would be Brandon's explenation with the Higgs field (which however does not work on its own due to density). That is cool idea for how it could work as to not break too many things! However, now you hold density to be fundamental quantity instead of derived one, which is not how it is IRL (to our knowledge). So if Cosmere is IRL + Investiture (which is I think how Brandon wants to treat it), that equation would not work sadly. But sure, if you hold that density is fundamental quantity and mass derived one, then you can increase mass somehow without changing density. But it would have no explanation in terms of IRL physics (which is what I had issues with in the first place). Additionally, it would imply that Invested objects are becoming heavier, which is not the case (i.e. Nightblood is the most invested object in Cosmere, followed by Shardblades and yet those are quite light, Susebron is also not heavier then other people). So, I did a little digging into ballistics, and actually becoming bulletproof is easier then I thought. (This was the primary source for math http://panoptesv.com/RPGs/Equipment/Weapons/Projectile_physics.php) Humans are basically water, even average tissue density is like ~1.098 g/cm^3, so barely above water. The equations for penetration depth are linear in sectional density (so we can treat them as linear in volume density but multiplied by unit of length). Since, eve 50. cal sniper rifle basically disintegrates after just 3 feet (~91 cm) in water ( Mythbusters episode), that means that increasing density ~93x times would make you bullet proof to 50. cal sniper rifle (well, it would penetrate ~1cm). Interestingly enough, slower bullets actually get further in, but become non-lethal much sooner. Some experimented with shooting into sand (density at most 2g/cm^3, https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-7-the-sands-o-truth.299/ ). There no bullet penetrated more than 6 inches (~15 cm). So in this case tapping at ~27x increase makes you basically bulletproof (penetration at most 1cm). This assumes the person used the densest sand they could find, using average value (1.7g/cm^3) would bring the tapping needed down to ~23x. I would assume that in some sense tissue would behave somewhere between water and sand (being more viscous than water, but less then sand in container), so anywhere between 23-93x tapping makes your soft tissue bullet proof up to 50. cal sniper rifles. Bones would become bullet proof far sooner. And this does not even consider the elastic properties of tissue, which would bring it down by some amount. So at 2-3x tapping bullets would still pass through, but some just barely (I mean even IRL bullets can get stuck in wounds). At 10x tapping bullets would get about 3 cm in at most. Someone who is on the bulkier side could effectively use this as emergency armor then. I think hand-wavy solutions are the best we can do, at the end of the day it is still fictional magic. I think it will end up being explained as having something to do with Connections and spiritweb, as all magic will eventually come down to it (just like the Windrunner thing probably). Nah, we find it fun to discuss and argue. Frustrating sometimes sure, but fun most of the time. Yeah, we came to this conclusion quite early in the thread. Since then, we were bringing in additional modifiers, starting with removing F-steel from consideration, because it distorts so much. And he gives nice example that overconfident Fullborn can be killed. Why kill someone fast, if you are untouchable? Without Preservation and Mists choosing Vin, she could not have pushed on his metalminds and he was completely safe. You cannot exactly plan for something that never happened. Ruin was kind of driving him into madness (he was cracked a bit even before, which Ruin used to whisper to him and have him pierce himself). So basically he had the Zane Venture experience for hundreds of years. And since he was the one who stopped Ruin from destroying the world last time, Ruin would have a lot of reason to be extra vicious. Not a good recipe for good mental health and smart decision making.

But it does not have to be extra stuff, if you change Higgs field, there is no more stuff, but the mass changes while the volume remains fixed. Hence density changes. Yes, the second object would be more dense in every practical sense and physical sense. If the first object happened to have density of water it would float, but the second object would sink. If you shot the second object, the bullet would not penetrate as deep. In every single instance where mass or density plays role, the second object would behave differently. Yeah, the force holding you together won't increase or at least not too much (it would have to increase, otherwise at more extreme ends Wax would crush himself). However, because of increased density, the bullet has to do more work to penetrate you, so it would in-fact increase how hard it is to damage you. At more extreme ends this alone would make you bulletproof, simply by conservation of momentum. For example bone density increased 20x would make F-Iron feruchemists basically immune to headshots, even soft tissue would suddenly be denser than most armor. This entire discussion has nothing to do with Standard model to be fair, all of this is just mechanics. And good luck on your studies Well, we know what 'mass' is about as well we know what 'electric charge' or 'color charge' or 'spin' is. It is just some intrinsic property of the fields we use, and it has some consequences. The nice/odd part is that it seems that fields should be naturally massless, and only symmetry breaking through Higgs fields results in mass (via interaction with Higgs condensate). Edit: At @alder24 I would say Fullborn with F-Iron will be close, but still not as good as Gravitation in urban environment. Gravitation alone already does everything F-Iron + Steel/Iron does, but even in urban environment it will retain advantage of being more flexible (no limitation on acceleration, no limitation on direction). Windrunner can shield themselves from debris with simple Reverse Lashing, not too difficult. And spren can somehow percieve even in Shardblade form, so being shield would not distract spren. But I do concede that urban environment would help Fullborn offensively via more metal being nearby.

Really? Huh, must have missed that. Cool. Thought so, just want to correct just in case. Ah, yeah I misunderstood that, that's what I get for reading too fast. Yep, and you get all that inheritance

Mate, I know that mass is intrinsic property I literally do my PhD in particle physics. That equation works even if mass is changing, or dependant on other field or whatever. It does not care about anything like that. You don't know what you are talking about. That is literally circular definition No it is not You can increase mass in given volume by also by adding in energy, that works too. And then, because the mass/energy in the fixed volume increased so did density. If Feruchemy increases mass in given volume (human body) then by definition the density should increase. Since it is magic it does not happen, but that only shows it is magic and does not have to obey IRL laws.

That Fused can have only one lashing merely restricts their acceleration, not velocity per se. Problem is, Mistborn/Fullborn will have just as hard if not harder time to maneuver. They are more limited in their acceleration then Windrunner (arbitrary lashings vs whatever metal is available) and in directions they can move in. Sure Windrunner won't be able to take advantage of their higher top speed as easily, but they are in no way disadvantaged against Mistborn. This terrain merely brings up Mistborn/Fullborn near the maneuverability Windrunner has all the time, but not beyond them. I agree that Windrunner would be more limited than in open field, but they would still maintain edge over Mistborn/Fullborn. Gravitation is simply better then Steel/Iron combo, no matter the situation. Yeah, somehow And Mistborn/Fullborn is affected by those as well, which renders this a moot point.

Windrunner could actually travel to other planets per Brandon (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/450/#e14436). Fused are most likely bound to Braize via Oathpact, so until that is broken, even this avenue is closed to them. Small correction, light year is measure of distance not time And while yes, from earth frame of reference it would take Windrunner more then 4.25 years to get to Proxima Centaury, in their own it would be far shorter trip thanks to time dilation. There is a handy wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_travel_under_constant_acceleration) with math for this kind of movement, and with a chart for how long it would take to travel to various celestial objects under 1G acceleration (time both from the frame of reference of travel, and of stationary frame of reference of earth). So for Proxima centaury it would take ~8 years traveler time under 1G, and over 10 years earth time. And yet to get to center of Milky way it would take only around ~30 years for the traveler, but externally it would take nearly 10000 years. Of course, more G's would shorten the trip. Special relativity is fun

I mean, I don't think you jump scenario would work, the spren can simply quickly vanish when Fullborn is trying to grab it. In RoW Syl does act on her accord to become a small shield for Kaladin, so this would work here as well. And even if not, Windrunner can dismiss and immediately resummon, so Fullborn has nothing to grab. At that point Fullborn is in air, Radiant can uses Reverse Lashing to pull them closer and skewer them with Shardblade. And without F-steel they are about equally fast physically (with possibly small edge for Fullborn) so landing a hit on Radiant is no longer as trivial (only F-chromium could maybe help with that). That is why I think letting Fullborn keep F-pewter makes sense. And I don't think A-pewter helps that much with dodging, Stormlight also improves reflexes. A-Bendalloy will definately help, though there is an interesting question of how will Shardblade interact with the bubble, since Shardblade can cut steel-sight lines. Even in city Windrunner maintains speed and maneuverability advantage, start of RoW, Kaladin and Leshwi have high speed chase thought a crowd (as in moving between people) which is far more maneuverability then we have ever seen from Mistborn. Windrunner can replicate everything Fullborn can do when it comes to flying, and has more options open as well, so Windrunner still dominates air.

Mate, no. Density of matter, which is the relevant quantity we are talking about here, is defined as mass divided by volume. Full stop, no assumptions about fixed number of particles ,or fixed properties of particles are necessary. The 'mass volume equation' as you call it, is the very definition of density. You seem to have no idea what you are talking about, and are changing the definitions to suit your needs. Just ready wikipedia page, that is nice digestible summary. Or crack open a physics text book. You will find zero support for your claims. Also not sure why you are quoting definition of volume at me, since it has nothing to do with what you are saying.