Wonko the Sane

Then I will be playing as Elena Resterford, daughter (or granddaughter, not sure yet) of infamous former student Seventh Son Resterford, who campfire tales remember as The Necromancer. After a PHENOMENAL admittance interview, she is being granted special admission on extreme probation, which I’m thinking involves some sort of armed accompaniment to ensure the safety of her fellow students. Her family does have something of a reputation, after all. El, I promise to do my very best to keep my actions in the general vicinity PG-13.

Well, what a wonderful time to come back to SE after a 3-year hiatus. Into the deep end, I suppose! I’ll sign up. Are the game title and texting-screenshot writeup an inclination that this is set in a hypothetical modernized Four Corners, with cell phones and the Internet and the like?

@Amanuensis, you describe the Elim kill profile fitting a team of Devo and TKN; that implies you have a theory about why Alpha was the first kill. Can you elaborate on that?

Okay, I reviewed our PM, and realized the confusion. I was saying I was good at manipulating mechanics, not people, though I do see now that my phrasing was ambiguous. I’ve explained more precisely in our PM, where I can quote the relevant text.

I’ll also note that I already walked it back some C1 after I realized that we need Banished players for flips; I initially misread Silver Knives as an action that could be taken from within the Village. I mean, I’ve been saying basically the entire game that I don’t see any particular reason for people to have the amount of trust for me they seem to. That said, when did I say I was good at manipulation? My specialties are mechanics mastery and team logistics. I definitely find intrigue and manipulation fun, but I’ve never felt I was especially good at it. Not awful, sure, but not fantastic either. I’m picking up most of the new jargon just fine, but I’m struggling with “PoE”; can someone explain what it means?

Woops. Fixed.

2 hours remaining. The vote currently sits at: Archer (3): Ashbringer, Matrim's Dice, Wonko Wonko (1): DeTess Devotary (1): TJ Matrim's Dice (1): Archer The maybe-meaningless Banishment vote is at: TKN (1): TKN DeTess (3): DeTess, Ashbringer, Wonko

If I had to make an argument, e!you saw that e!Devo had slipped and accidentally reused a point you'd given her from a PM, and you stepped into the thread to do damage control to prevent me from drawing that connection. When I saw Devo's post, I actually wondered to myself if you'd do something exactly like that, and stage an argument with her. This isn't very solid evidence, and I acknowledge that. It's why I didn't immediately jump into the thread and say "I got 'em!". But when someone else is discussing an Archer-Devo e/e theory, it's worth adding the small evidence I had towards that theory. If you didn't tell it to her, you'll have to admit her post is weirdly similar to what I said in our PM. Could be a coincidence for sure, but it is definitely notable.

Light correction on this: Archer challenged me on this statement, and made me realize that I asked Devo about any PMs, not him. That said, he has now independently confirmed that they have no PMs. Sorry for the mixup! Point still stands about Devo's eerily accurate reproduction of something I said in a PM, though.

Again, because I promised I wouldn't let it happen, then didn't follow through? Seriously, why is it so suspicious that I feel bad for breaking my word? It definitely can; I already cited it above as a reason not to trust Aman yet. But we were trying to figure out the motivations for a very bizarre choice made by the Elims last night, which is why we were talking about Alpha, not Aman. If the Elims forced the Aman lynch, there are any number of reasons for that -- one of which is a WGG by E!Aman, yes. But we know for certain that they killed Alpha, and possible reasons for that are not obvious. I really don't like you derailing that conversation to speculate about Aman. Interesting. I suppose this is a good time to note that I've had my own e/e with those two cooking for a while, ever since this post: In which Devo nearly word-for-word recites a prediction I made to Archer about the distribution. I asked Archer if he had any PMs with her, and he confirmed he didn't. It's totally possible that she came up with the same observations, worded in a very similar way, all on her own, but it's something worth noting. All told, I really want to vote DeTess, for a few different reasons I've mentioned, but she has the knife claim as a good reason not to kill her (which I worry is why she claimed in the first place). So instead, I'll put my vote on Archer. I think that an Archer flip would be extremely useful given the number of theories he's entangled with right now. I also think that, contrary to my prior requests, the Homesteader Leader should banish Detess, both because of my light suspicion of her, and because right now the possible flips, Aman and Alpha, would be EXTREMELY valuable, and I want a knife out there before too many more people die.

That’s at least an explanation for what is otherwise a very bizarre choice of kills, yeah.

Or maybe I just promised to save him, and am apologizing for not following through on that? I still don’t trust him, if that’s what you’re implying. Honestly I’m super confused about how you can read my apology as AI at all. What are you talking about? Aman was the execution, not the Elim kill. That’s very clear from the writeup. Also, I genuinely can’t recall a time I’ve seen Aman vote out of nothing but self-preservation. I wouldn’t read too much into it, especially in a game where death wouldn’t reveal his alignment, and he (softly, maybe unintentionally) tried to shame the Dawnshard into bring him back.

Ah, drat. Sorry, Aman. I really meant to cast my vote for somebody, but got caught up in traffic and missed my chance. Ah, well. Alpha was an… odd choice for Elim kill. I really can’t see why he was targeted, unless the RP in the writeup about him having a knife that’s missing is a clue. Did Alpha tell anyone in PMs that he had a dagger?

Well, now Aman is going to die. He might be good with that, but I'm not sure I am. @Amanuensis, Sell me on a reason to vote DeTess and save you: why exactly are you suspicious of her? EDIT: Ninja'd. Tell me about Ash, then. Also, I'm not sure you're getting a response from DeTess; she hasn't been on in 8 hours, and rollover's around the corner.

Assuming Aman's last count was accurate, it's now: Devotary (1): Ashbringer Alpha (2): Matrim, The Known Novel Amanuensis (1): DeTess Archer (1): TJ DeTess (1): Amanuensis TJ (1): Archer I missed TKN's vote on Alpha, so I thought we were in a 6-way tie. Instead, It seems Alpha is going to die.

@Szeth_Pancakes The rules don't mention a vote threshold. Does that mean that in a 6-way tie with 1 vote each, a random one of those 6 dies?

All right, fair enough. I'd forgotten just how observant you can be for your reads. I still have a vague feeling I'm being pocketed, but I suppose my vote accomplished its objective. Aman My reaction to Alpha came after Aman's first post with me at the top of the pyramid. I'm still not sure I fully agree that me have a cool head about soft distrust is a village indicator; I'm pretty cavalier when it comes to my own life in this game no matter what side I'm on, and I assume Aman has notes on me saying as much. But I'll take the response, for now.

Aman. @Amanuensis I've been at the top of your trust pyramid since your first post, but in my opinion I haven't done anything indicative enough to earn that -- and I definitely don't think I'd done anything by the time of your first post. It seems a lot more likely to me that you're remembering that I've a bad tendency to form trust way too easily, and trying to pocket me by making me feel at ease with you. So out with it: why exactly are you saying you trust me so consistently?

Ashford strolled through the Forests of Hell on his usual morning amble. He bore a pensive expression, absently tapping the letter from Dr. Lestibournes against his trouser leg, his ornate black wood cane striking the ground beside him with every other step. His outfit made a sharp contrast with the gloom that surrounded him: brown tailcoat over a ruffled shirt, waistcoat, and striped cravat, top hat perched gracefully on his head. Occasionally, a shade would drift curiously past him, but he paid them no heed -- the Three Simple Rules had been the first Threnodite cultural touchstone he'd documented. Rather, he found his thoughts chewing through the letter, and the decidedly untidy situation he’d found himself in. Ghostbloods barging into the Crimson Tavern and causing a commotion. Old Parable Ellisworth the bartender gone missing, undoubtedly murdered by the offworlders. Homesteaders shouting in the streets, throwing around words like “banish” and "execution". Yes, there was certainly a great deal of untidiness afoot. Ashford detested untidiness. Idly, he wandered between the trees, eventually settling on the direction of a creek he’d found in the past. As he walked, he stopped briefly to admire a particularly resplendent sunrise just barely visible through a wild tangle of branches. Oh, certainly he understood messiness. Why, basically everything to do with people was messy, and he wouldn’t have it any other way. The knotted, self-contradictory mess of human behavior was what made anthropology worthwhile. Satisfied with the sunrise, he at last picked his way through the forest to the creek and began to follow along its winding path. Neither did he have any particular problem with dirtiness, for all his care to keep his fine leather shoes out of the early-morning muck of the creek bed. Many of the most interesting people and societies humanity had to offer could be found squirreled away in the dirty, oft-neglected corners of the cosmere. No, it simply did not do to have a stiff neck about grime in Ashford’s profession. He followed the creek until it flowed into a broad pool, remarkably deep for the terrain. He stopped there for a while, captured by the deep, seductive blackness extending down from the surface. Even ugliness was something he could appreciate, in a primal sort of way. That fascinating streak of brutality that underlied mankind; their manifest propensity for cruelty and violence. He knew all too well how deeply the siren’s song of bloodshed was carved into the nature of humanity. It was a necessary part of the whole, and thus beautiful in its way. Finally, with the morning stretching on towards noon, Ashford shook himself and began the trek back to civilization. Little had visibly changed when he arrived in Crimson, but the tension in the air spoke a different truth — this town was two steps shy of total hysteria. The homesteaders went about their lives, stalwart as always — but watch long enough and you could see each darting furtive glances over their shoulders. Troubled, Ashford made his way in the direction of his small home near the center of town, calling neighborly greetings to those he passed; greetings which, incongruously, the sullen townsfolk returned in kind. Even in his dandy Forter getup, he was one of them. He’d earned that. By the time he arrived at his little hut, he’d made up his mind about what to do. Oh, he’d follow old Nowko’s orders; there was no question that the Dawnshard needed to be in safe hands, and he’d do what he could to make that happen. But he’d be damned if he let the town of Crimson, with all its beautiful culture, be torn apart by this. Outside a neighboring home, he spotted the person he needed. “Good morning, Barnaby!” He called. “Oh! Uh, good morning, Mr. Longfellow.” The scraggly boy answered, looking discomfited. “You didn’t show for lessons last night; had me worried there, young man! I do hope everything is all right?” “Oh! Um, yessir. It’s only, my ma says I’m not to go to lessons no more, on account of it’s not safe bein’ out at night, with all them Forters hangin’ about.” Barnaby looked positively wretched. “I’m awful sorry about it, Mr. Longfellow. I tried to talk her out of it, honest I did!” “That’s quite all right, Barnaby. I might just pop round this evening and have a word with her myself. In the meantime, I’ve a different job for you. I can pay you two measures of silver for the day’s work.” Barnaby gaped. “Mr. Longfellow, that’s too much, sir! I can’t let you do that!” “Oh, poppycock, I know you’re worth it,” said Ashworth. “Besides, lad, you know your mother could use the money. What do you say?” “I say…” Barnaby hesitated for only a moment. “I say you got yourself a deal, Mr. Longfellow! Only… what is it you’re needing me for, sir?” “Well, you can start by following me to my brewery, and helping me load a few dozen casks onto a wagon. After that… we’ll see.” … Just shy of four hours later, Ashford pushed open the door to the Crimson Tavern, Barnaby following quietly behind. He surveyed the empty seats, the unlit lamps. Just one day without a proprietor, and already there was a hollow feel to the place. It reminded him of the looks he’d seen in the homesteaders eyes that morning; of their too-mechanical movements. It reminded him of darker days, long shoved away in a corner of his memory. Untidiness. He could understand messiness, dirtiness, ugliness. He could even learn to love them, after a fashion. They were a part of the world, and that was the proper way of things. But untidiness — things straying out of place, events falling out of the proper order, tasks left undone — untidiness was different. That was something he could not abide. He straightened his shoulders and took a long swig from his brandy flask, feeling the strength flow back into his bones. Then, he lifted the heavy wooden sign on the door that read ‘CLOSED’, and flipped it so it read ‘OPEN’. “All right, Barnaby,” he said. “Let’s get moving. There’s work to be done.”

I really hope you’re kidding about that Eliminator claim. If not, then it’s kind of poor sportsmanship to just throw the game like this; it ruins the game for everyone else playing, and is a pretty crappy thing to do to your teammates. Next time, if you lose interest in a game, just drop out and request a pinch hitter. If you actually are kidding (or pretending to be kidding), I’m super sorry for this misunderstanding. I just haven’t gotten to know you yet, so I don’t know what to expect from you. I’ve known and liked plenty of people who would make that sort of joke. I’ve just also known an unfortunate number of people who really would just sabotage a game because they lost interest or got upset. I hope you can forgive me for being gun-shy.

Banished players are way easier to recover than dead players, and even dead players are recoverable in this game. I'm not sure why you think of Banished players as out of the game when they can be rescued literally as fast as they're banished. Also, why would blind banishment possibly help the ratio? I'm very confused by that. In any case, information is more important than the ratio even in a normal game. It's why the village bothers with execution at all, even though the first execution is obviously more likely to hurt the ratio than help. The village lives and dies on information, and in this game there are precious few mechanics that gain it for us. That means we need to go old-school mafia, and get the information from the only place it exists: the eliminators. We need discussion and the opportunity to produce reads more than we need anything else.

Oh no, I'm not worried about too much discussion about mechanics; finding mechanical tricks is my bread and butter, and I find it generally starts conversations just fine. It's already gotten two people to softly float suspicions (of me, but I'll take it), which is a lot more information than we had at the start of the round. My concern is that Banished players are no longer allowed to communicate with the rest of us. There are effectively three "areas" of this game players will be allowed to communicate: the thread & PMs, the Banished doc, and the Shade doc. Players in each location have absolutely no way of communicating with the other locations. I'm asking that for the time being, we limit it to two locations by not banishing players, so that the discussion remains more active.

If that were the case, there'd be no reason for Shades to stay in the game at all. They can't affect gameplay while dead. EDIT: It is also true that the Dawnshard gains their abilities, though.

Ah. I was indeed reading that wrong. In my mind, the Silver Knives were a one-time action to flip a dead player. This makes things... trickier. Hm. I was indeed asking them to hold off til C4, unless a truly compelling reason to banish someone becomes apparent. Though, at the time, I hadn't realized that we need banished players to ever use our flips. Now I'm less certain. I'm still very worried about how quickly the discussion could fragment in this game, though. Anyway, some more thoughts. Since the Knives are so apparently unreliable, we have exactly one way to find out alignments that I can see: successfully roleblocking the eliminator kill. This makes fighters our third most valuable asset, after the Dawnshard and the Knives -- though I acknowledge that it's a really hit-or-miss method of confirming players. I'm still trying to brainstorm a way we can effectively use that. Wait -- @Szeth_Pancakes, fighter is unclear to me. Are they able to roleblock an action on the same night they use their roleblock? If not, they're considerably weaker than I thought, and I'm back to square one.

Going pretty well! I definitely missed this game. I’m noting some interesting things about the mechanics, which make this game even more unusual than other flipless games I’ve played. Top of my agenda, though, is to request that the Homestead Leader refrain from banishing anyone for the time being. Deaths are going to be inevitable, but let’s refrain from fragmenting the discussion more than necessary. I also think we should refrain from using any knives on the first kill or so, until there’s been some solid discussion. It’ll be tempting to flip the first person to die, just so we have something to go on, but that’s a very inefficient use of one of our most valuable resources.