Wonko the Sane

Nope. Coco cannot possibly have had the Captain's Hat Loop A. She made 8 total posts on the first day, only 1 of which contained both RP and what could very loosely be described as discussion. At absolute maximum, she entered N1A with 19 rupees. I'm still looking through, but I'm increasingly confident that only Mist and I earned max rupees D1A. So v!Stick worlds can ONLY exist if there is an elim in <Drake, Wonko, Mistfallen>. Who exactly do you think is the elim there, Stick?

Oh, Stick, by the way. Sorry, forgot in my last post. I have an alternative plan that I'm currently running by Aman, though, so my vote might move.

The only way that Hael is currently lying is if an elim got the Captain's Hat during Loop A. As far as I recall, the only people who could afford that were myself (assuming I lied about Bunny Hood) and Mist, so any e!Hael team must also include e!Wonko or e!Mistfallen. Unless I'm missing someone who got max rupees D1A? Can someone with actual notes check me?

Ah! That's a relief. I was REALLY getting worried there. Burnt, how on earth do you always manage to get into my head even when I'm actively talking about how I never trust you.

Especially because v!Coco means we're in exlo. It might be less likely, but it's so impactful we still need to work around it.

@Doc12 I don't necessarily put TOO much stock in a v!Coco/e!Burnt world, but I'm focused on it because it's one of our biggest possible loss conditions right now; and it's not implausible. So I want the second place behind Burnt to be someone who makes sense in that world. However, I'm not going to leave my vote where it's useless. Doc. Twinstorm. I'm fine with a Twin exe. As others have pointed out, Twin is a valid target in a lot of different possible worlds.

It would appear we've chosen Burnt over Mist as the primary exe. I don't like it, but I get it. Mistfallen. It's imperative that we not split the vote among different theories here. The second place vote MUST be someone who is e/e with Burnt, because that person will only die if Burnt is an elim. Moreover, we should aim for someone who is e/v with Coco, given an e!burnt world. if Burnt fails to die then we need at least one of <Coco, second place> to be an elim or we lose. Right now I'd say that Doc is a reasonable candidate for that position. However, I also want to reiterate that if Burnt dies, we have very probably lost the game, because an e!Coco, v!Burnt world is fairly unlikely. So everyone should be very, absolutely certain that we're in an e!Burnt world before going through with this.

Mistfallen. I'm up too late and need to go to bed, but I figured I could put a vote out. I'm still currently in favor of exeing a possible Stone Mask first, and a strongly suspected ally of that player second. Ash's plan is intriguing, though, and I'll reread it after I get some sleep. Assuming we stick with the plan to exe Burnt, Mist, or Doc, we should pick the one we think is least likely to be e/e with Coco; which is why I've gone with Mist. If we point the exe at Mist or Burnt tonight, and they actually die, then they were very likely a villager. In that case, if Coco is also a villager, we've lost. To avoid that, I'd advocate we pick a person who's likely to be an elim in a v!Coco world. If Mist dies today, then he was a villager and we're probably in the Burnt/Coco world hypothesized D1. Unfortunately, that ALSO means we need to identify an additional elim to kill D3, because Burnt probably has the mask in that timeline. If Mist lives through the exe, then he's an elim, which I think means Coco is probably a villager (I don't remember why I think that, but it's somewhere in my brain?). In that case, it's IMPERATIVE that the second-place exe be an elim ally of Mist. Probably Hael? Like I said, I'm overtired so all of this is subject to change when I see it with fully conscious eyes. But this is what I have for now.

Zymni frantically waved, trying to get Ap's attention. The now-goron girl marched with fierce determination on her face, which made her annoyingly singleminded and difficult to flag down. Finally, night fell. Zymni sighed as the Twilight washed over her, then looked down at the string tying her to Thistle. With an apologetic glance, Zymni formed a blade out of Twilight in the air beside her, then swept it across the string, freeing her to fly forward to consult with Ap.

Why? Keaton is the only purple mask that matters to the Village now, and it only matters a little. What meaningful gain do the other purple masks get us that's worth 50 village rupees? We need to test for the Stone Mask, but as things stand, that's not reliable before D2 because they can put it on in preparation for the exe. We need to account for this in the exe and ensure that we have two leading wagons we're satisfied with. @Burnt Spaghetti I see you at the bottom. You're up way too late, go to bed; but before you do, I would very much like you to claim what mask you attempted to buy, and whether you were successful.

Maybe. Surely it would come with justification if so, though? It's hardly convincing distance as is.

Hold on -- What is this about? Why the last minute shift? Did your opinions change? It's not like the wagon needs more support.

Tragic. Burnt. Coco.

If the person wearing the Stone Mask wins the exe, are you saying that the second-place vote dies instead? @Amanuensis Can we get a rules check on that?

Wait. Wait wait wait. Coco. Burnt. Someone check my logic on this: If the Stone Mask saves someone from death -- whether an elim or a villager -- that brings us down to 5 deaths this Loop. Doesn't that put us in a situation like Loop 1, where we only need to hit a single Elim to win the Loop? If so, I think we might actually be able to game this. Assume that Burnt/Mist contains one elim (a safe bet). We kill both of them, and simultaneously demand every player submit votes and/or PMs before D3. We successfully identify the Stone Mask. D3, we exe that player. We win the Loop. Am I missing something? I'll switch my vote back if someone can find a flaw in my logic.

Zymni scowled as she dove into Thistle's shadow. The little apprentice girl. Of COURSE it would be her. Zymni had literally been face to face with her and not known a thing. Well at least she had another chance now. There was plenty of time left in the day. All she had to do was find the girl and force her to do her thing with the song, and Zymni would be free of this Realm and its cursed Sun, able to return home to her people and free them from Zant and the Demon King. Why didn't that fill her with elation, the way it had before? Unbidden, her eyes were drawn to Thistle, face haggard with grim determination and frantic hope. The florist kept throwing furtive looks over their shoulder toward Amora. Discomfited, Zymni looked away to the side, where she found joyous humans celebrating their festival, oblivious of the coming threat. By nightfall, many of them would be dead. In four days, they would ALL be dead. When Thistle spoke to her, she welcomed the distraction from her troubling line of thought. "No, it didn't hurt. It was just annoying, mostly. The afterlife in your Realm is apparently quite boring, for Twili. At least, as long as Time is being twisted. Mostly I just waited and hoped for the musician to play the Song again." She shivered. "That part hurts quite a bit. The touch of the Goddesses is apparently still not very pleasant for my people."

Zymni swam through chaos, stewing. Dead, but not dead. Potential futures still lay before her. Futures she owed to the mysterious Piper, who she had AGAIN failed to identify. So now she waited, waited for the song to play to seize her next chance at freedom. Days passed in boredom before the song pierced the whirling void of shadow and -- PAIN. Zymni's essence, unprotected by corporeal flesh, roiled wildly as the song threatened to rip her apart. She strained to... to hear... the... --- The Beast awakens in the primordial void, and roars. It lashes out, waves of violent force bursting from it, shredding the void with ear-splitting shrieks. It howls Its fury, blazing with sinister power: the power of the Demon King, made manifest by the Fused Shadow. It needs to kill, to destroy, to consume the Light. It needs... --- Zymni awoke with a shudder, once again back in Thistle's cottage. She took a moment to let out a shrieking string of invectives in every language she knew, then gathered herself. The Piper. She had to find the Piper. She didn't bother with knocking this time. She gathered Twilight between her palms, straining against the force, then directed it forward, blowing the door to Thistle's bedroom to splinters with a deafening thunderclap. "Thistle! We're going out. Now. No chores today. Get up..." She trailed off, seeing Thistle's curled up form, weeping. Oh, Sols, how did she handle something like this? She stared awkwardly for several minutes, then tentatively inched forward through the air and gently put her hand on Thistle's shoulder. Thistle threw themself violently around Zymni's small form, enwrapping her in the heaving sobs. "Let me go, you sappy buffoon! We don't have time for this!" Zymni beat ineffectually against their friend, before sullenly settling down to wait out the emotional tirade. She very definitely did NOT enjoy it whatsoever. Finally Amora's arrival drew Thistle out of their heaving despair. It wasn't clear why. Something about Amora seemed to put Thistle at ease. Whatever. Zymni didn't have time for it. At least Thistle was acting human again. "Thistle!" the Twili hissed as she was drawn indecorously up the stairs like a balloon on a string. "Listen, there's no time. We need to go out, NOW. Somewhere in this city there's a musician, and I NEED to find them. Understand?" @Doc12 Sorry, I'm slow at this. I've done a mild retcon to your story so far, to better represent Zymni's emotional state; I hope it's all okay?

Yeah, but do you know how much reading I have to do still to catch up? I'll get to it eventually. That makes things a little better, though. You definitely seemed to be making good points at the end of the dead doc.

Yes, but you getting Mask of Scents is something we have to take on your word. Same with Burnt. If either of you is lying, you can easily afford the Stone Mask.

Hm. I can accept that reasoning. I'll tentatively make the switch. Burnt. Coco. I don't love being talked into the decision by just one player, though, especially since near the start of today some people seemed to think there was some kind of black mark on your name that I'm not aware of yet, that happened in the dead doc. Do you know what they're talking about? At this stage, I'm all in favor of you taking up a somewhat mayor-shaped position, yeah. Though the PM identification strat isn't as reliable as we could hope; As Aman just clarified, the Stone Mask is NOT auto-equipped on purchase.

Oh, wait. For the record, you definitely can, I made one L1. But I just remembered, I think Aman said that you need to have the money to afford both masks. So it's irrelevant in this case. Sorry, carry on. Ooh! So, others have already said you're incorrect here, BUT you've still found a way to ID who got it! Clever! @Amanuensis Does purchasing the Stone Mask automatically equip it, like with other masks, or do you need to take a turn to equip it? If I bought the Stone Mask today, could I take advantage of the action order, and submit a PM tonight before it took effect? From what I can tell, Doc, Coco, Burnt, and Mist are all potential elims who might be able to afford the mask. Sure, Burnt would have to wait for tonight if your calcs are correct, but that's easily done, and still means our only window to exe her would be today, wouldn't it?

Hi everyone! So I kind of need to play catch up as I was NOT following along while dead, but there are pressing issues under discussion here. First, I disagree that the correct play for the elims here is to go aggro and give everything to win this Loop. They have plenty of space to be more careful about all this. That said, they've definitely shown that they have more a aggressive attitude than me across the board, so I'll acknowledge it's possible. Hael claimed repeatedly not to remember that I had the Bunny Hood for Loop A. This is either a lie, or solid confirmation that he's village; I am nearly certain that the elim doc contained serious discussion of it. This also applies to Drake, but slightly less so, as he could simply have been responding to Hael's mistake by trying to appear just as mistaken. As much as I still disagree with Archer's "pop the Blast Mask on a Villager" plan, I feel like it probably came from a Village place. The only reason I can imagine e!Archer going through with it is to gain the trust I'm giving him now -- but if that were the plan, then I have to imagine more people would have mentioned it by now. The idea that Burnt/Mistfallen are e/e seems so implausible to me that it actually makes me suspicious of Stick for trying to push it. I think I agree with the assessment that the elims are trying to push both candidates, and I also think there's a lot of merit to the idea that killing Ash was premeditated attempt to set up material for this. For this reason, I vote Burnt. It is absolutely imperative that we not waste an exe on the Stone Mask. Possible elims who could afford the mask are Burnt, coco, Doc, and maybe Mist. That's too many for us to reliably keep it out of elim hands (though we should still try our hardest), which means that we need another solution. @Amanuensis, Can the Circus Leader Mask steal the Stone Mask? If so, then I advocate that every villager with 50 rupees put in an attempt to purchase the Stone Mask, with a backup bid for the Circus Leader Mask. The Keaton Mask can be overpowered by sufficient votes, and does not pose nearly as great a risk to our losing the Loop.

So your plan is to count on a successful sudden death vote? You intend for us to positively identify three different elims in a single Loop? That seems very reckless. Especially if along the way we throw away one of our more useful identification tools. Why are you so quick to use up our one and only Blast Mask for this purpose instead of to catch an NK with a revenge kill? Why on earth would they not NK? They cannot win without NKs, and if they lose they want as many people dead as possible. This Loop is not like last Loop in very important ways. One of which is another way you're confusing the mechanics. Loop 1 was the ONLY time in this game that we're able to get hard-cleared Villagers. From here on out, it's possible for us to kill an elim and still lose, meaning we will never gain hard alignment data from Loop results. Can you articulate why this is a better use for the mask than catching an Elim kill, or else just manipulating elim behavior to make the kills more rigid and readable? The typical advantage gleaned from your plan is that we lose the Loop and and gain a small modicum of soft information by increasing the density of elims among the surviving players. Meanwhile, if we leave the Blast Mask in play, then the Elims -- the only people who MUST target someone every turn -- are put in a much more precarious position.

@Stick. I'm so sorry you're caught in the middle of that. Stay safe. I think everyone's forgetting that if the Blast Mask kills two villagers, that means it's broken forever and ISN'T around to hit the one thing we KNOW will be targeting someone every night: the EK. I see the ratio arguments for why it might be good for the village that the Blast Mask and Postman both die, but I think it's outweighed by the fact that this gambit loses us one of the most powerful anti-elim masks we have access to. I'm not saying people shouldn't be making the most of your PMs, but maybe we shouldn't be spraying them out like buckshot in a deliberate attempt to destroy one of our best tools? @Doc12, agreed. I'm very much in favor of a Burnt exe now. Zymni scowled into the night as she followed the refugees out of the city. She'd been too slow. She'd failed to identify the Song-player before the city blew up again. Now she was following this strange girl, Ap, on some hare-brained quest to save the kingdom. Well, at least this time, she was actually with the caravan. Maybe she'd get lucky, and the mystery musician was somewhere among them again, ready to play the Song again in two days when the world ended. She could only hope that the girl Ap didn't actually SUCCEED in her quest -- if the world didn't end again, how would Zymni ever identify the person who could send her home?

I am... unnerved by the sudden spike in interest in Dive. It feels like a hasty effort to defend Burnt, except that it would be almost TOO obvious to countenance. Still, it definitely makes this feel like a reasonable play: Stick. Burnt. There are other things I'd like to respond to, but I don't have the time right now. I'll do it after rollover instead. I'll try and be back on in like 45 minutes to react to anything last-minute. @Burnt Spaghetti @Doc12 I for SURE don't have the energy or time to write RP right now, but if you feel like continuing, the post I WOULD write would be Zymni appearing to Cinder and demanding she play her flute. Then, as soon as Zymni can confirm that it isn't the sound of Ap's Ocarina, she rudely interrupts, complaining that Cinder isn't the one, and demands that Thistle take her out searching again.