Bejarden

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

None of those have enough investiture, with the possible exception of breath but even if Gavilar had some he did not have enough.

Maybe it was…Cultivation

Which would fall in line with a bunch of other things I believe she has been doing to keep Dalinar alive

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Why he never asked Shallan? I dont know, maybe he was afraid, maybe he was ashamed he wasnt strong enough to stop wife earlier? Who knows.

 

It’s possible he did ask Shallan, she just doesn’t remember or it isn’t recorded in the flashbacks.

Sorry I’m not able to finish this

The final clue is: This character is an engineer next poster goes

30 minutes ago, Jash said:

First, I think this is another misinterpretation you have, I think humans made up religion to explain things they couldn’t understand and create a cohesive set of moral standards for their society, so yes most primitive society have religion, but that doesn’t prove anything to me. I think we made it up. 

What difference does it make? Practically none.

Religion was the embassy of culture same thing however you want to phrase it.

Im not asking you to believe anything, I couldn’t care less if you did. We’re not arguing whether religion was true

Im saying that at the heart of every culture a religion ( who 99% were wrong) and they imbued moral values

And why do dolphins have morals? They don’t. They have no concept of doing what’s right because it’s right. They do it because of some reason that I don’t know but prove to me they do have morals

And stop telling me to not put my ideas on you then calling my ideas “deranged” at least be sensible to not apply a double standard of what’s right. I’ve tried to be civil I really have but your  making it really really hard 

At least put some basics of fact into your argument with instead of just asserting something then moving on

Anyway I’m going on a trip for two months so feel free to respond but I physically can’t 

1 hour ago, ElMonoEstupendo said:

Ulim.

29 minutes ago, AceBassMan said:

Sullik the bartender?

29 minutes ago, AceBassMan said:

Sullik the bartender?

Nope (sorry for the double quote)

This Character gets excited during experiments 

1 hour ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

I have to live life, like a normal person 

Haven’t done this yet but you got my sympathy 

ThaidaShard

Lord of the Shard

LordChaos

Chaos-is-scary-2021

LtLoCR (Let the lord of chaos rule

SicSemper

Tyranus

Narsil

Elendil

VaxConfirmed

Any of these @Thaidakar the Ghostblood

Just now, Mistcloak said:

In the Alloy of Law, Wax “embraces” the mists multiple times and also misses them   a lot and I’m pretty sure he healed a little faster after a fight once but I can’t think of where off the top of my head

Yah if you or anyone else can get me the quote that be great

Embrace is just the term Brandon likes to use when a Allomancer is doing Allomancy things

7 minutes ago, Mistcloak said:

But Wax always heals faster and feels better when he is in the mists

Source?

1 hour ago, ElMonoEstupendo said:

Nohadon.

18 minutes ago, AceBassMan said:

obligatory Beard

Nope

This Character has been to the Shattered Plains

821

1 hour ago, Lesser spren said:

I could help but notice that the results of the Tower's defences turning against the Radiants is very similar to emporor Ashravan's condition in "The Emporors Soul".

Evidence:

-Uncontrolled Bodily functions

-digestive system responds to input of food but is otherwise unresponsive

-being "healed" is possible but it only lasts a day, the end of which is heralded by a "Fading" feeling

I don’t fully agree with this:

I think the first two reasons you pointed out are because both subjects are in a coma, and I’m not sure about this but people in a coma have those first two things

The last reason is different in both cases, with Ashavran it was a soul stamp so the spiritweb, I would guess, is constantly trying to bounce back and depending on how likely the stamp is is how long it stays

With the Radiants there was a suppresion Fabrial constantly pounding at them and when Lift healed them they were able to resist it for only so long

The effects are very similar but I would guess the reasons are different 

1 hour ago, AceBassMan said:

Lhan, the ardent

1 hour ago, AceBassMan said:

Lhan, the ardent

Nope

This Charcter has a beard

Huh 

1: This Charcter has met a POV character 

1 minute ago, DougTheRug said:

To me, new implies difference. Difference can mean unusable or it can mean different use. Also, when I see what Ruin was doing to Scadrial, I see him making unusable for supporting life. Previously, Preservation's use for it was to house life (specifically human life) then Ruin destroyed it by making it unusable.

I just don’t like that it’s so similar to Update

If Ruin had destroyed Scadrial the remaining parts could have been used for another use

Thats very similar to adding to something, to me at least

I would think that all 4 Dawnshards do completely different things with the 16 Shards interpreting those Intents differently 

Something like: Change Survive Unite Drive. Or something, other people have much better theories than me

I don’t know if any of that makes sense

19 minutes ago, Jash said:

I'm pretty sure I said that religions wasn't homogenous. That was my whole point. Based purely on this, you seem to agree with me, so I'm not sure why you are disagreeing with me. I am not trying to disprove religion, I'm trying to disprove Frustration that he thinks religion is the core of human morality, because...it's not. 

I misunderstood a point you were trying to make and replied with a different premise 

I do disagree with what your saying though

I’m not saying that you have to be religious to be moral I’m saying that all these cultures were once long ago religious and this influenced and shaped them

Now the Atheist numbers have gone up but that doesn’t mean those values the Founders instilled into the society they created aren’t there

If you go back 1000 years to these Indian and European cultures the vast majority, nearly every single one, had a religion 

India had the Karma Darma and Ahimza thing which was the basis for Confucism which is the basis for many many cultures which are not very religious

Same for Amarica which is Semi A religous but still holds many of the same values as religious people since they are all influenced by the same cultures that come from the same 2 or 3 religions (Mostly Muslim Christian and I think Hindu)

If you can bring some proof of an non religious culture that was always non religious and has succeeded (and by just an outlier a statistical appropriate number) That would further this argument

Let me posit this question to you as a thought experiment I’m not challenging you or assuming you would do this I’m genuinely curious on a atheistic point of view on this

If you could steal 1 million dollars from someone and he wouldn’t know it was you and the Government would never find you, you know that for a 100% certain. What is the downside of doing it?

Why do morals matter if there is no downsides of not having them?Edit: 

Quote

 

Do you think there is 0 chance that human beings created morals themselves, that our morals come from a combination of evolving to be a group animal and society? like seriously no chance?

 

Yes @Jash

I know I said I wouldn’t respond but the OP has expressed interest in continuing the conversation and I will oblige

I still don’t know who it is

Its probably somebody in BoM though since that’s the only Khriss party I think…

Devlin airs 

3 minutes ago, DougTheRug said:

That quote supports my theory, if anything. I said that Destroy/Delete involves making something unusable. That is literally what Ruin is talking about here. 

That quote says “Become something new” that implies usable

And if it’s usable all it is is detrimental change not delete. Everything is still there

With the laws of thermodynamics it can’t be destroyed and rendered useless so by definition delete does not destroy since there is always energy that can be used

A lot of people think Unite is a Dawnshard and that is not centered around Change but coming together 

Fatrens brother

Can we stop doing obscure, probably Mistborn, Character mentioned once?

40 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

But that individual wouldn't know what those obvious things are, because in the example (this is a real argument that has come up in the history of religion, and resulted in changes in doctrine for many religions), this isolated group or individual live their entire life without running into a member of such faiths that require this of their members. So as per those religions doctrines, this person who did not wrong other than exist in an isolated location, is immoral, and evil. 

Things are required of you in life, it’s not all fun and games. For the vast vast vast majority of people you need to do the fundamental basics of a human society (Don’t kill don’t steal, eat animals when their dead) that sort of thing

If you can’t do that and it was reasonably accepted you could, then your out of luck.

Wouldn’t call you evil and immoral but life has its expectations 

40 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

But that is what Frustration has put forward. I was merely replying to it. 

Then I disagree with Frustration and I apologize for attacking you

Edit: Reread the thread and I found the point of this conversation

Not much. This is a side tangent that we all feel very strongly about and none of us are going to change our minds on what is true based on this conversation.

I personally don’t see the point of continuing but by all means continue if you want it was partially my fault for it starting in the first place

if you quote me and I don’t like what your saying for some reason I may respond but otherwise…

7 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

if this is in fact taking place, where atheism is becoming or on its way to becoming the dominant view regarding religion, does this then mean your religious beliefs are becoming false? Because it sounds like you are positing the numeric value of people believing something validates its veracity. So if the numbers of your religion decrease, while athiesm or another religion increase, does that make the god of your religion null and void?

Quote

You got it backwards. It’s not that people stoped believing and it became false (this ain’t a Rick Riordan book…) it’s that it was always false and then people stopped believing after they realized 

It’s not a numbers game and nobody cares what the individual thinks 

Quote

I think the point is if someone existed outside the knowledge of a religion that requires that god to be the source of morals, and requires subservience to that god in order to attain salvation, then by your logic, that person could be born, live, and die not knowing any better and be deemed evil and amoral all because of the location of their birth.

Well an individual living by himself not knowing the existence of religion really only needs to do a very few obvious things

And religion is very complicated and you are making a gross oversimplification of what you can spend your entire life studying and not understand

I did not think I would be having a philosophical discussion today but I’m fine with it as long as the OP doesn’t mind the derail

6 minutes ago, ScadrianTank said:

It's not like morality exists somewhere in a vacuum - humans only began exhibiting moral behavior when society(-ies) formed.

Society formed very early on in human history I think. We have evidence for thousands of years old structures in places like the Furtile Crecent

We don’t know everything of what happened back then so we can’t know really anything concretely

7 minutes ago, ScadrianTank said:

If it is somehow beyond what humanity imagined, every species across the universe has to have the same morals as we, despite having nothing in common with us. 

Pretty much yes.

If aliens exist, and I’ve seen no evidence they do, and they have intelligence, their morality should be very similar to humans.

49 minutes ago, Frustration said:

By that logic there is no such thing as morals, just some things we imagined. And the only basis for any moral judgement is that more people agree with you.

How do you live like this?

Legitamate question, I don't even think I could.

The questionsI ask myself every time I see these arguments… not to belittle the argument I just legitimately don’t understand 

5 hours ago, Jash said:

Explain why no one worships Norse or Greek gods anymore

Just going to answer this pretty quick: These we’re never accepted. Religion is not homogeneous I would wager a lot of money that me and Frustration disagree on basically everything and I think he’s completely wrong and I assume he thinks the same with me. And just because everyone realized Greeks were wrong does not mean anything 

anyway this is a complete side tangent with no meaning and if you want @Jash we could continue in a PM but there’s really no reason to have the discussion here

29 minutes ago, Jash said:

Honorless already answered this, but…Culture. It’s based on culture, just like religious dogma is. Religion does not exist in a vacuum, it has changed over time despite how religious people view it. It is a representation of its cultural’s morals. I in fact, think religion depends on culture and not the other way around, however in more deeply religious society they can directly influence each other. Every culture, whether religious or not, has morals. Two of the most deeply non-violent countries, and with some of the lowest crime rates in the world are Japan and South Korea. So, Frustration, why are they seemingly more morally pure (by measurable rates) despite being both more than 50% non-religious? This is historical, too, by the way. East Asia views religion differently than the West. (A note : I don’t actually think SK and Japan are more morally pure, I used that to point out that morals are subjective and cultural, not because I think any culture is actually morally superior to any other, the same for religions by the way)

Culture is always stemmed in Religion, in every culture you can always trace it back to that.

Japan has/had a religion in the past which has heavily influenced it today and they are inseparable

Amarica too also is stemmed in religion, with Judaio-Christian values and such.

And “Religion” has not changed really, there are still people who believed what their ancestors believed 3000 years ago, there have been branch offs and other sects. But it mostly travels in a straight line with each religions values staying mostly the same

I do not know if a single culture that has succeeded that is not or has not in the past, been stemmed in religion

768