Quintessential

Okay, great, thank you so much Gears for pointing out that you can actually figure out my role (or, well, narrow it down to two possibilities) just from what everyone knows. Now that he's said that, I'm just going to assume the elims know already and claim. My action targeted a person, rather than a part of the ship, which means I'm not engineer or messenger and that I didn't place an anonymous note (which is doubly obvious since there isn't a second one) or request an Aviar. More specifically, my action targeted a living person on C1, meaning I'm not a Doctor or a Biologist. And it didn't independently cause any effects in the write-up, meaning I'm not a Navigator. I could theoretically have requested an anonymous PM (I think?) but Gears's wording rules that out because he says he knows my role, not just what action I took. (Again, thanks a lot : P) The only way I'm a Trapper (or an elim submitting the kill, for anyone who feels like being paranoid) is if Gears was Brigged; but I'm pretty sure that if he was Brigged, it would have occurred to him that I could be his attacker and not his savior, and he would have said something. Since he didn't, and since I didn't claim Internal Affairs at the start, the only possibility left is that I'm an Investigator... which I am. So uh... yeah, if there are any Internal Affairs out there, I'd highly appreciate some protection : P TJ's right that it is a little weird Gears assumed I'm village, but on the other hand, second scans with Investigator are alignment scans, so it is a more useful role for the village.

Ah, okay, I missed that. And yes, sorry, that's what I meant--the Navigator has the potential to anonymously follow the elim submitting the kill and report who that person targeted. Which is very bad for the elims and pretty useful for us lol

The lack of Assassins and Bodyguards in LG75 lol I went back over them pretty thoroughly after I saw that there was no elim kill : P

I don't particularly care either way; early on in the game, it's probably fine to have ties kill all players in them, especially because it increases the stakes for the elims and can give us more solid information to analyze during endgame. I do think it's important to get that fixed before Ex-Lo though : P ...did you not read my post? *sigh* here, I'll reiterate: Assuming the elims didn't forget and didn't attack TUO (both of which are relatively unlikely scenarios imo), the only way there was no NK is if either the elims targeted someone who was thrown in the Brig or the elim submitting the kill was thrown in the Brig. As clarified by the GMs, no one would have had an Aviar when the kill took place, so that form of protection isn't a possibility here. [1] you know you did just ping them, right? lol [2] it would take some pretty insane balancing for an elim Tracker to work as a role, so I was already assuming the Tracker was village (if there is one at all *glares at Mat*). It's possible that the Tracker did submit a kill, but was roleblocked or submitted the kill on someone who had protection. It's also possible that the Tracker was inactive. Or they just decided that Terminal Seeking isn't worth it this early on You know the Biologist can't scan hospitalized people, right? Hospitalized people can only be targeted by actions from visitors, and visitors can only use kills and heals. Therefore, the elims don't actually have to worry about that; it's only a problem for them if they attack someone who has a Sak, and that person reveals they were attacked (which they would know because they'd be RB'd and lose the bird), and specifically asks for a Biologist to scan them. The role the elims really have to worry about is Navigator, because Navigator can show everyone who targeted a person, and can do it without actually revealing their own identity. Though, since they (edit: the elims) didn't sabotage the Control Room, it seems they aren't that worried about that either. ...well, yeah. TUO's vil. Of course he's not e/e with Exp. : P

Illwei wasn't dancing around Tani's question that I could tell. And anyway, I don't really know why that's even an argument; it's not like it's hard for the elims to give actual opinions on a hypothetical situation that's incredibly unlikely to happen, so the fact that she didn't commit one way or another is NAI imo.

Wait, what points did Sart have? (I have a hard time reading debate/arguments written in RP form, so it's quite possible there were some and I missed them : P)

Okay, so either A. the elims forgot to submit the kill? B. the elim submitting the kill got thrown into the Brig or C. the elims attacked someone who got thrown into the Brig. Any security officers out there... well, it's up to you whether you claim but it could provide us useful information. Alternatively, you could send an anonymous message this cycle saying who you blocked (but not who you are).

Does requesting Aviars come before or after kills in the order of actions? (that is, is it possible for someone to be saved by an Aviar C1?) Edit: huh, and the Agent didn't improve any parts. I wonder what that means...

@DeTess @StrikerEZ if the elim kill was blocked, I'm assuming that it wouldn't show up in the write-up. What about if the elim-kill hit someone with protection? Would that person appear as having been attacked but survived? Also is code even allowed in anonymous messages?

idk how to read Tani so I don't think I'm comfortable voting her... I'd rather Exp as an alternative than Tani.

Oh wait Illwei I'd forgotten you died early in those games somehow. Sorry about that oof Besides which, your response here actually feels pretty vil to me so I'm revising my read of you for the moment. Ah, okay yeah I see that now. Because only 3 birds can be lent from the Aviar Holding Area each cycle, so if more than three people ask for birds, some of those actions will be wasted. Basically TUO is saying they want to coordinate who takes birds each cycle : P The point is that it buys us time in the form of extra cycles. Like, if I'm NKd this cycle and go to the hospital, and another villager is misexed, we go from (what I'm assuming to be) 11-4-1 to 9-4-1. With a misexe each cycle, the elims win C7 even without the extra kills from the Trapper and the Agent. With those extra kills, they could win as early as C5. However, if a Doctor goes to save me from the hospital, that moves the possible elim win-cycle up by 1--so, C8 and C6 respective, instead of C7 and C5. And that's with only one Doctor saving only one patient. Even if that Doctor and that patient are the next two to die, it still delays the elims winning. Because I had reasons to vote Illwei at the time--all of which she's responded to convincingly and village-y imo, hence why I'm not voting her anymore. Also, she and TUO both died early in recent games, so I'd feel bad killing either of them. I'm voting Experience because I have a mild elim read on them and... well I'd feel bad killing TUO or Illwei on C1 again : P Current VC: Tani (1): Exp Illwei (3): Azmine, Szeth, Sart Exp (2): TUO, Quinn TUO (4): TJ, Matrim, Biplet, Illwei Gears (3): Jondesu, Tani, Devo

Ah, that's... actually fair. I'd forgotten about that game : P

Er... no, I don't think so. I joined in October.

Unsolicited and probably accurate VC: Tani (1): Exp Illwei (4): Azmine, Quinn, Szeth, Sart Exp (2): Illwei, TUO TUO (3): TJ, Matrim, Biplet Gears (2): Jondesu, Tani Okay so I'm not sure how to feel about my Illwei vote suddenly picking up two followers... uhhh I guess I'll let it sit for now, but I'm keeping an eye on that. Especially if we later find out TUO's elim. It's fine, it just means I have to be more careful around you

What? He said he bet I couldn't do it! I like a challenge. And that's not devious, that's just common sense

It's more gut based on your phrasing than your actually decision to hold off voting : P

Okay finally I can sit down and actually do stuff with this game. I reread the thread and my overall impressions so far: TJ's vote on TUO felt village--being concerned with oversharing information about actions is a mindset that villagers automatically have and elims (speaking from personal experience) don't. TUO's statement of what their action would be also felt village, though, imo. I can't imagine an elim would want to publicly obligate themselves to do a specific action, or at least not until the entire team had decided who was submitting the kill and who was doing what other actions. Since TUO announced their action less than 3.5 hours after the start of the cycle... well, I have a hard time believing the team would have had everything figured out by then. Exp's post at the beginning is admittedly a little odd so I have them as null elim for now. Tani is Tani. After what happened in QF52, I've decided to take a break from reading her village just for being Tani, so I have her as null for now. Same for Gears being Gears though admittedly I couldn't get myself to read that whole post. I mention them specifically because they're people I feel like I should have a read on, I just... don't. They're noted null, ig. Biplet Illwei, how come you voted Experience without reasoning and then dedicated the rest of that same post to explaining why you thought Tani, TUO, and Szeth were sus? (Exp themself pointed this out already and you never explained)

smh you've played one full game with me and I was village. How would you know how devious I am?

Ohhhh okay that makes more sense. So... Vonne/Araris/Mat/<Danforth>? I mean, I'd been reading Ash village because of how he claimed (last-minute, suggesting he was afraid he'd be killed by the elims and thus willing to risk a last-minute post that might not save him, rather than claiming when it first became clear he was in trouble), not what he claimed as. But I guess if we're out of leads at some point, Ash might be a person to consider. It would explain why the elims haven't tried to kill him, though that could also just be IKYK.

Ahhh okay so that would be why Araris didn't submit the kill, then. Wait. Hold on. If Vonne was killed by the Shades, they must have submitted a kill at some point, right? But N2, Araris submitted the only kill, and last Night Vonne was scanned (by Jondesu) as having scanned someone. Therefore, Vonne must have submitted the kill N1. But Vonne claimed to have done nothing N1, which was backed up by a scan claim... from Archer. So... Uhhh hey @Archer, wanna explain how exactly that happened? Because as it turns out... we've all been assuming that Archer is Prof. Dyer because A. he double-voted in disguise D1 and B. nobody has counterclaimed. But... the fact that there was another explanation for that second vote means that the elims could have faked it. There are no action scans D1 (edit: I meant to say "during the Day"). The lack of counterclaim is odd, since it's an obvious way to catch an elim in a lie, but... yeah now idk. I guess the other explanation is that Jondesu is lying, but that doesn't make sense either, because then the team would be Vonne/Thug!Jondesu/Thug!Araris/<Danforth> and that looks like wayyyy too many elim lives to me, unless we have a ton of village Thugs and/or Crossbows and/or Silences which... doesn't seem to be the case so far.

@Illwei I bestow upon you my very own tinfoil hat; it will help you in times of great need, when crazy theories are necessary. It may also have some unintended side-effects like extreme paranoia and last-minute vote-switches, but then, you have both of those anyway, so you should be fine!

Ohhhh wait wait you're right. So in order for Vonne/Mat/Araris to be three of the elims, the elims must have chosen for Danforth to submit the kill... why would they risk the 20% failure chance? They coulda just had Araris do it, he was supect anyway.

Well but Archer's definitely a villager, so he must be right, right? jk I know that's not how it works. I'm a bit on the fence about you, tbh... you + Araris + Vonne doesn't make much sense because all three of you appear to have scanned. So uh... unless you're Danforth, ig? I'm not sure how that fits.

Oh so you admit that you're elim then! @Matrim's Dice wait Dannex claimed to you? Why? I thought we all agreed you were evil

Uhhhh idk, maybe someone else wanted to be trigger happy? Or maybe you guys were worried that you would be targeted with a Spellbook or something. Idk, you tell me! You're the elim >>