Whysper

Yeah, not unexpected. Perhaps they don't think there's much of a chance of getting info from you or not worth the effort. So they figure they'll go for taking out someone they believe is a Hemalurgist. If this was the case, then It is rather odd they didn't go for Condensation instead since she kind of gave herself away as likely Hemalurgist. This does make me suspicious that she's an Elim Hemalurgist... Welcome, Lotus! This sounds extremely hedgy. We are working on solving who the Elims are. We have to make choices. If you don't make a choice, you are basically saying that you don't care who dies. If you don't like either of the main wagons, at least vote for the person you think has the most chance of being Elim, even if that chance isn't much higher than for others. Villagers have to take a stand and choose. Elims want to hedge so they aren't held accountable for dying Villagers. I went back and looked at some of Silb's games and yeah, his lack of posts is NAI. We can look at him again later. Good point. And yeah, I'm suspicious of Ash for this as well. You know, I hadn't thought about this, but you are right that this is a possibility. At my homesite FoL, they don't give the results of a save in the thread or even in the class cards, so there's only everyone's word on what action they did overnight. But with these results shown in the thread, I can see how they might be used by Elims in a tricky way. BTW, I know you explained the meaning of WGG, but do you know what the actual acronym stands for? I'm just curious. I assume this is referring to Mist making info-only posts. I agree with you that we shouldn't lynch people just for this reasoning. This can be used along with other reasoning, but I think Villagers also make such posts. Now, if these are the only types of posts someone makes and they don't make reads or try to solve, then it would raise a red flag. Ahhh, a couple more people without much for reads. Though at least Vapor gives an Elim read on Connie. But Reading is "finding it really hard to find people suspicious." This raises a severe red flag. It should be more like there's too many people that have suspicious aspects that you can't decide what is more suspicious. Elims would have difficulty finding anyone suspicious because they know all the Villagers are innocent and they don't want to implicate their partners. Reading Okay, going to stop here for now on commenting. I keep getting pulled away to other things and will never get fully done. And this has already become quite long. Haha. EDIT: Added below Ahhh good, others are finding it annoying/suspicious that people aren't stating suspicions.

Just a quick note that I've been reading along in the thread throughout today, but didn't have time to analyze much nor write anything up. I have to head to bed for the night, but hoping to get to this tomorrow morning. I like that a few more people are getting involved now.

Interesting that Elandera may become a wagon for EoD. I guess the reasoning Aman and Araris present isn't bad, and I would probably put Elandera in the PoE as well, though for later down the line. Ahhh, thank you for the insight. Hopefully I'll get a chance to play with them someday.

Oh, sorry to imply it's immediate. It's more like all those reads stay under suspicion. Others are still taken into account, but there's a strong pull to look to that list. Well, yes, you may have a point when you combine their stance/wording D1 and D2.

Definitely option B and just allow the Villagers to lynch their own. As far as placing a vote, if most people voted, then it would stick out to not vote, so you probably have to choose one while still protesting about not liking either. But if a lot of people haven't voted, then just skip voting also. Reasoning the kill doesn't give us much info is something both Villager and Elim might say. And I can see a Villager taking either option A or B as well. It's very natural for a Villager to assume that the other wagon might be Elim. And this would be further heightened by the fact that the person killed suspected them as well. What has happened a lot recently at my homesite FoL is for Elims to kill the person who is usually trusted with their reads but happens to have them wrong this time. Most Villagers will look at that read list and start killing them off. I don't know if that happens much here. And I'm not sure if I found out yet whether Gears is someone usually considered correct on his reads.

Do you mean you have some suspicions they are Elim and other suspicions that they are village Hemalurgist? If that's the case, you are basically null on them and should look elsewhere. Unless you meant they might be Elim Hemalurgist, in which case it doesn't matter since it is only village Hemalurgist that keep the HI from going free. I think we need to keep on people with a good chance of being Elim. If we run out of those, we may have to push harder and even vote on others, like low posters, eventually. And it may come to the point where we are about to lynch a village Hemalurgist. At that point, they pretty much need to claim and we'll give them a chance and seek another lynch. Just quoting my previous post where I expand on what should happen in this scenario.

Hmm, true. Some might take this tactic. But then we're also not going to get the Elims trying to slip UTR. If we are accidentally pushing/voting for a village Hemalurgist, they will need to claim. Yes, they then become a target, but I don't think there's any way we completely avoid something like this. Not all Elims are going to make themselves obvious. At least if they claim truthfully, we get a chance at selecting another lynch. And maybe we have a villager who can protect them. Also, the Hemalurgist should confirm themselves in the doc to other Hemalurgists, who can then get out the word to trusted contacts.

And yeah, I likely won't be around for EoD since that's in the middle of the night for me. Hopefully we get an Elim this time. And now with the revelation that there can be as many as 5 or 6 Elims, we probably do need to push harder on some of these low posters. There must be at least a couple Elims among them.

Man, I kind of want to join this, but I already have too much going on. But I'll put myself as pinch hitter (that's backup, right?) so that I can be pinged if a replacement is needed. I'll see what things are like at that time. /backup

Ahhh, so people do use the term vanilla here. I wasn't sure, so I stuck with Regular.

Oh wow, now I'm a bit worried. Though I assume this is balanced by most being Regulars. I've only played a game with that many Elims when everyone was Regular (though there were ITAs).

Ohhhh. Haha, well I'm in dark mode too, so that's why it clearly stood out for me. I mean, who doesn't use dark mode???

Ahh, thanks for that insight into her previous game. And yeah, I agree that it could be either case. Good to know. Thanks.

Ahh sorry, I missed that explanation. I'll check for that again. So you think the interactions between them are similar to when they were Elim together? Interesting. Ahhh, I'm getting mixed up with another game I'm tabbing between on SC2 Mafia. There's known to be 3 Elims there. I guess we don't know the exact number here. So really around half are new? That's interesting indeed. And yeah, I don't know Gears. But actually getting back to that. The argument for newer players to target Gears is weak by itself. He wasn't really involved much in the thread. He wasn't much of a threat to newer players. They would have likely picked someone else more involved in the thread like you or me. Is Gears known to be a strong town player? BTW, you mentioned something about me quoting white text. I've noticed people use all sorts of colors here. I can understand green and red, but do the other colors have certain significance? Like the purple or light blue or white?

Yes, I agree that when starting to play, voting is a scary thing. It seems so aggressive, and I also worried about making a mistake. But that's part of why I find Turtle's play suspicious. I would expect someone newish to be holding back more and being actually hesitant to vote. They aren't holding back at all and seem to have no problem with voting. Only expressing concern that they might not be picking the right person, which is hedgy and often done by elims to be less responsible for a village flip. Interesting way to reply. Is this an attempt to seem too openly cunning to actually be an elim now? I wouldn't necessarily tie these 2 together. Even though they maybe worked well together before, I think Turtle could be capable enough on a new elim team without Elk. This is an odd question to ask about low/no posters. Is this an attempt to randomly move suspicion elsewhere? There are 3 Elims, so even if 1 or even 2 are new, the chances of all 3 being new seems quite low. So this is odd to point this out and basically shade all newer players. Thank you for providing this insight about Turtle. No, I don't think it does. I don't see reason to believe that you and Turtle are necessarily tied together alignment-wise. Haha, I won't. Actually, for the most part, I feel you are very similar to the other game we just finished playing together on FoL, so I've been village-leaning you. Very strange interaction. I feel like I'm completely missing something. Is that what explains their interaction? I'm hoping Elk will actually explain. Uhhh...Does it annoy you? I can stop? Haha, I'll admit I cringe a bit every time I see it, but that's fine. Keep doing it. That's just you.

Okay, I know a few people are giving eltruT a pass for being newish, but I think there's a bit too much to overlook. They said this about the hesitation to vote, yet they didn't seem to have problems throwing around votes yesterday. They needed very little convincing to jump onto the Ventryl wagon, which resulted in the lynch. And what's this? Going back to voting for Mist when specifically not thinking they are elim? And what's all that about if Mist isn't elim then someone else is? Isn't that just obvious?? /vote eltruT BTW, I still haven't completed dropped my suspicions about Elk, but I think this might be where to go today.

Ahhh okay, thanks for the clarification. So yeah, the elims don't know who the HI is yet, but again, I think they would specifically want to avoid using kills on people they suspect are the HI so not to waste kills since they will already learn the identity of the HI when it becomes killable.

Okay, not sure on targeting then and whether the elims know who the HI is. I guess the game description just says they can't use kills on the HI. But I don't know why the elims would intentionally use kills to figure out who the HI is. If they don't already know who the HI is, then actually they would specifically not target anyone they think is HI because they wouldn't want to waste kills. When the HI is freed and becomes killable, they will already find out who it is. Only village would care to find the HI early on because they would want to avoid killing the HI later.

The elims can't target the HI for a kill. Possibly they did think he was a Loyal Hemalurgist. Maybe an elim Hemalurgist thought they recognized him in their doc. I did village read Gears and was PMing with him last night. I received this info as well and can confirm it. I was surprised and relieved that there were this many, too.

Oh, I noticed this vote count is in alphabetical order rather than voting order. Is that normally how the vote counts are shown on this site? Usually it's important to consider when each person got onto a wagon, so I found this interesting that the info is lost here.

I still hold suspicions towards Elk, but I actually still need to review more posts. I didn't get much chance today. However, I doubt that the influx of votes on Ventyl were elims trying to save Elk. That would be too bold and just draw too much suspicion on them. At most, maybe one elim was involved in that.

Hmm, I didn't realize we could talk during the night cycle. That's different than other Forum Mafia games I've played. Thanks for the vote summary. I was asleep during EoD and was certainly surprised to see that Ventyl was lynched. I still need to read through what happened during the day cycle.

Haha, this trying to not post twice in a row is annoying. When I find that I need to comment on something else, I keep hoping someone will post in the meantime so I can start a new post instead of editing. Yes, you were elim, though I don't know the exact context of what you were doing at that point since I didn't keep reading much after that. If you really are a villager, I do hope you can provide more soon.

Actually this doesn't quite clear you. The elims wouldn't have much of a problem letting you claim regular. It would only hurt to claim regular as villager since the elims can ignore you. But if you are elim, it doesn't hurt them and just has the benefit of potentially making you seem villagery. If someone openly claims to be Hemalurgist, then all the Hemalurgists have to do is ask them to say who they are in their doc. It's not like they are hiding at that point. EDIT: Added stuff below about Elkanah Yeah, I stopped looking through LG15 when I realized it was so long ago. Plus he was elim in that game I think, so it wouldn't be useful for seeing his village playstyle. I've been looking through other games but didn't have enough time last night to do much. I started looking a bit at LG63. Though I think he might also have been elim in that too. Haha. But yeah, I'm trying to see if I can find a game in which he was village and had something close to the playstyle he claims. @ElkanahActually maybe you can just point us to a game where you had this playstyle.

Oh, there wasn't a particular connection per se. I was looking through some of Elkanah's past games and just happened upon that quote that fit perfectly as a response to him welcoming a lynch on himself. So just countering with his own words. Yes, exactly. His explanation doesn't fit at all with the behavior. Trying to get the spotlight would be something much more bold and maybe chaotic as you put it.