coolsnow7

I agree, and also it won’t happen because Brandon has a much better sense of what the appropriate boundaries of a magic system should be than all the yahoos around here who want to deus ex machina everything with the flick of a wrist and a bunch of references to Fortune/Spiritual Realm/Connection. It’s like, “if I say Fortune 8 or 10 times, then I’ve got a plausible way for the Cosmere to achieve world peace and annihilate all evil actors!” Well that was easy.

Yup! 14 years of Jewish education paying off

I’ve been theorizing along these lines as well but can’t come up with anything specific. A couple more things that are relevant: - Brandon said that Deadeyes are supposed to remind us of another similar typology in the Cosmere. The best I can come up with are Kandra=>Mistwraiths. So whatever it was that happened, it was the equivalent of pulling out the spikes for the Parsh, and then probably only leaving Spren with 1 spike, namely their bond. - Another Cosmere parallel is Sel, where the power of Dominion and Devotion was tied to the land since each had been killed. Well, Honor was dying at the time, and it could be that the power underlying the surges was becoming more strongly tied to the land of Roshar than to him. As a result, taking such strong action on BAM who is apparently in some way important for the land of Roshar => bad for everybody, especially Spren. - Another angle along these lines with Sel is that Elantrians are stuck in stasis - which brings to mind how deadeyes are in stasis in the Physical Realm, in the shape of the weapon they had last formed. In fact, it could be the parallel we’re supposed to be drawing isn’t Mistaraiths, but Seons in Elantris/human Elantrians.

It probably matters a lot that Honor isn’t around to keep them on the straight and narrow.

I too thought that Rlain would be a Bondsmith, and if not, a Willshaper. I thought we’d get the explanation of the Recreance in this book. Definitely had a higher opinion of Kelsier, wouldn’t have put him in the Ghostbloods much less as Thaidakar. I thought Ishar would still be sane to all appearances and just be secretly plotting the destruction of the planet - not outwardly acting like a complete whackjob. Like why would Nale or Ash even bother talking to him if this is what he’s like? I would that thought that Nightblood+Perpendicularity = something big, not just collapsing the Perpendicularity and Nightblood in food coma. (Though that hasn’t been fully confirmed yet.) I thought we’d get some good Venli teleportation stuff going on. Actually kinda disappointed that we only saw Lezian do that. I thought the Dawnshards would play any sort of role in the book.

I’m not sure Moash would want to serve Taravangian at all - Taravangian is/was a king! Kaladin grew out of his hatred of the nobility whereas Moash is letting it consume him. Indeed, remember that the moment he gave up on humanity in Oathbringer was when he went to the Singer camp and found that a lighteyes of high rank had managed to manipulate the other humans into serving him. No, I don’t think Moash and Taravangian are gonna see eye to eye at all. Another interesting question: what happens if Odium reveals himself as Taravangian to Jah Keved? Does he immediately gain their allegiance? That would make the 10 days between now and the contest much much more consequential! It might force the humans to up the stakes of the contest.

There’s something here. In particular, Moash going blind probably signifies either a weakness that renders him unfit to be champion, or Odium’s disfavor. This would be stronger if we thought that Moash would be Rayse’s champion, which we don’t have great reasons for thinking; but if we stipulate that Moash would be Rayse’s 3rd choice, after Dalinar and Kaladin, then the shift in favor to El is clear. The other thing that’s missing, though, is: why is this such a cunning maneuver that Rayse wouldn’t have contemplated? It’s clear that it wouldn’t have served Rayse’s goals of “not just winning but winning in a way that makes a statement” in that El is just some Fused, he’s not one of the greatest followers of Honor brought down to Rayse’s level. But what is the angle that makes El such a terrifying adversary, and how will choosing him get TOdium off the planet? Of course we don’t need answers to that right away - if this is right, we’ll find out why in the next book. And if I were to guess, “He Who Silences” doesn’t refer to silencing people or Heralds, but silencing the rhythms themselves. My guess is that El lost his title and rhythms by going too far and threatening Roshar in some way, and will present that sort of conundrum at the contest of champions. EG he has some connection (maybe Connection) with Roshar in such a way that if he dies Roshar collapses too. That would force the humans into a situation where even if they win, their planet gets destroyed like Ashyn. And this makes the tie-in with the Recreance and the Shin much clearer as well... I’ve gotten a bit ahead of myself but yes I like this theory a lot, as weak as it is right now. A good question to ask Brandon: “what metal does El use to replace his horns?” If he RAFOs that, that alone signals that El is very important and nuances like that would spoil the plot. But if the answer is eg aluminum, then we know that the “silencing” is much more profound than just killing people or Heralds or whatever.

This seems far-fetched. The simpler explanation is that Thaidakar doesn’t have a particular opinion about Lift, and that Mraize didn’t have an “excuse” to hunt her because he has to focus his actual efforts on his job. But hey, anything is possible and maybe something will come of this theory.

I wonder what Batab is like and whether her willingness to work on the Diagram is consistent with treachery.

Re (5) I’ve long theorized that she’s going to weirdly join a new order, namely the Dustbringers. Mostly because she’s leading the book, but also because you can see her personality fitting as well. (8) what triggers his realization is TOdium asking him “who would you choose?” So I don’t think it’s about changing vessels mechanically so much as something that was an option for Rayse too, but Rayse just wasn’t thoughtful enough and/or was trying to make a statement with his victory.

It’s possible that this is the plan, but I suspect that that plan is going to be unsuccessful no matter what. For example, TOdium is very clearly a disaster, and that alone might tip her other plans over. Sidenote that people around here (not necessarily you) give Cultivation way too much credit and are tempted to use her as a deus ex machina for the entire series. Guys, Tanavast and Rayse are both dead! Why do you think she’s infallible?

I don’t have time to respond in depth, but this part is too important to pass up: you are 100% right that the “Taravangian’s a utilitarian” thing is beyond ridiculous. The problem with what Taravangian did isn’t that his actions were immoral - it’s that he was simply wrong. In order to be a good utilitarian, first and foremost you need to have correct beliefs about reality that your ethical commitments then inform. To go a step further, if you’re going to do truly atrocious stuff in the service of some much higher goal, you’d better be absolutely certain that that atrocious stuff is necessary. Well, Taravangian was certain - and he was wrong. That’s the problem - not “utilitarianism taken too far”!

This is a good point, but Wit doesn’t seem dissatisfied with the contract - in fact he seems even happier.

I particularly like the theory because of this bit about only showing up via Avatar.

Keep in mind the Stone Shammanate of the Shin: one very important component of Shin religion is the holiness of stone. Combine that with the pointer from Kelek about Ba Ado Mishram’s capture doing damage to the planet. These are all clearly related and going to be at least one of the main themes of book 5 when we finally explore Shinovar.

I haven’t seen this discussed in the forums yet, maybe it has been and I missed it. But I find this simply baffling. Anyone have a clue what this could possibly be about?

I can’t believe I forgot about that. Great call!

Why would he feel “true terror for the first time” then?

I don’t see how this is relevant. If you’re used to having a hyperactive child in your head 24/7 and they suddenly shut up for several days in a row, you (ie Szeth) are gonna notice.

I think you’re on to something, and in particular I think the angle is that Odium needed a solution to Honor’s remnants. At the end of Oathbringer when he’s talking to T he says something along the lines of “I can’t just leave Honor’s remains here.” Perhaps Raboniel’s research was going to lead him to a solution for those.

I think you’re right, for the simple reason that it would be very weird for them not to figure out they’re dealing with Taravangian throughout the whole book, and this is a very plausible basis for them to start questioning what the hell happened. But I don’t think they’ll figure it out in time for it to make a difference.

In which case the entirety of the first 5 books is buildup to... a deus ex machina from Cultivation? I think that would be a worse ending than Dalinar the Fused.

That thread title makes this sound more confident than I actually am, so sorry for the clickbait. My prediction is based on the following: 1) the fact that we’re dealing with T and not Rayse anymore. Rayse would try to win the “conventional” way, because winning the sneaky underhanded way wouldn’t “prove a point” as Wit said. But T is not so limited; he would see that the best way to beat Dalinar isn’t to find a better fighter than Dalinar, but to use Dalinar against himself. And what better way to do that than to force Dalinar to either lose, or kill the person in the world he feels the most responsible for? And a child no less. This much I am confident about: T is not going to use a conventional champion; he’s going to try to turn Dalinar against himself. 2) the deathrattles: And We still don’t know what these refer to, in contrast with a whole bunch of other deathrattles. I think that the first one has to refer to some pivotal/climactic moment of this arc given the way it’s written. And the second one hints what I strongly suspect for narrative reasons: TOdium wins, Dalinar loses, and we set the stage of books 6-10 investigating the nature of oaths and how to safely free Dalinar from the consequences here. What ties them together in my opinion is this choice: to kill the “suckling child” or to choose life. “The night will reign” in my reading refers to reigning across the Cosmere, rather than on Roshar specifically. 3) well I kind of specified this already: narratively it just makes sense. We know that books 6-10 focus on the Heralds, and in my reading Dalinar becomes a Cognitive Shadow just like them. The Heralds want to get out of their oathbound existence, as would Dalinar. And it just fits well for us to have a temporary resolution at the end of books 1-5 without a full resolution that would make books 6-10 disconnected. Reasons for skepticism: a) I mean, I hope I’m wrong. It would be extremely depressing for Dalinar to be consigned to this fate, even for just 10 years. And to wait something on the order of that long in real life until Brandon even begins showing us how he’ll be rescued in books 6-10 is gonna be brutal. trying to use the deathrattles to support a prediction is extremely dicey, especially when there’s a whole book 5 worth of material that we still don’t know about. c) How would Gavinor be a “willing” champion? Dalinar in RoW ch. 112: To answer this specific point, Gavinor seems like a pretty traumatized kid. It’s plausible to me that if offered the “gift of silence”, like Moash got, that he would take it. Is this a stretch? Very much so. But that’s better than the prediction that, say, Adolin would be willing to be TOdium’s champion, which is just ridiculous. Anyway I’m putting this out there both to be able to claim credit on the off chance that I’m right, and to pressure-test the prediction, so fire away!

Pretty sure Zahel just told us why the Recreance happened: for some reason the Radiants worried that continuing to use Stormlight would turn them into Fused for the other side. This is obviously somewhat speculative, but it aligns nicely with what we do know about the Recreance. It also aligns with the little that Odium said when Dalinar asked him: that the Radiants gave up because they feared losing their passion. (And he elaborates to confirm that he doesn’t mean “passion” in the Odium sense, but rather actual passion.) It also aligns with the changes they see in Honor along exactly these same lines. And mechanically it just makes sense: die when you’re invested too much and you generate a Cognitive Shadow that will degrade over time. Radiants feared this eventuality, because it would entail the mental degradation and loss of purpose that the Fused currently exhibit - and as we saw last week, the Fused are more likely than not to destroy Roshar the way the Humans destroyed Ashyn. The things that are missing right now are what about the False Desolation - and specifically how cutting off the Parshendi from Ba-Ado-Mishram created the Parshmen - led the Radiants to worry about this; as well as how Dawnshards have anything to do with it. But I’m pretty confident that this is what the entire Recreance is about.

I exist! Hi everyone. I’ve been reading the content of this forum for the last year but haven’t brought myself to make an account and participate - until now! Looking forward to telling all you people why your whacky theories are wrong - and then having R’Shara and Karger tell me why my whacky theories are wrong!