GudThymes

The Slippery slope argument is actually a logical fallacy. Just because there are logical steps between different actions (the steps/slope) doesn't mean there is a causal link between them. (I've always disliked the argument but didn't know it was technically a logical fallacy until one of the recent Brandon live streams).

Look mate, I didn't mean to slight you or put words in your mouth or misrepresent you. But I find that "facts" without opinion or discussion is an opinion of itself. I interpreted your initial comment to be diminishing or dismissive of the ramifications of Gavilar's abusive behavior (which is why I wrote this thread). I hear you on not judging people, and apologies if it came across that way. I am happy to continue that aspect of the conversation in DMs if you would like but I don't find it relevant to the topic or productive to the overall discussion on this thread.

I'm glad to see that you agree with me that normalizing this kind of behavior is not right.

And many western cultures normalized abusive relationships like this 100 years ago as well. That doesn't make it right. Just because something is tradition or commonplace doesn't make it inherently good (or bad), we as a society and individuals should consider the "norms" and question them when we feel like something is amiss. The abusive way that Gavilar treated Navani may have been "normal" at some points in our human history, but that makes it even more important that we make sure to root this kind of behavior out of our society

I'm jumping in on this to second what @Pathfinder said above. There are many people who may not know what DID is our may have stigmatized views of this disorder. I didn't know much more than how the mainstream represents it until a few weeks ago. Then I did some research. There are many criticisms that we can make about Brandon's representation of DID in Shallan as a character, it's far from perfect. But please don't say "She doesn't have DID because it doesn't fit the clinical diagnostics perfectly". This isn't how real life mental disorders actually work, there are blurring of lines, people may have one symptom more pronounced than another AND it isn't actually accurate. The character was written to have DID, the author says she has DID, accept it then bring your criticisms to help others understand why and how it could be portrayed better. Also, with respect to your actual comment about why she doesn't, a treatment goal in some cases is for reintegration where all the alters regain the full memories of the host and are able to communicate. It isn't accurate to say that she has DID in this scenario, she is just at a different stage of healing/coping that most people suffering from DID are at or will ever get to.

Even dead plate resists the surges, we see this in the original prologue where Szeth fights Gavilar. Living plate also does affect the surges, however, it does not affect the ability for a Windrunner to lash themselves. I imagine that every other surge (including adhesion) would be blocked by plate.

I love the visual for this. Like a limb just being torn apart from the inside out due to internal stress. I know that Brandon has said that the reason why Shardblades don't cut flesh (initially) is because the original prologue written that way was just too gory. I don't see why your theory wouldn't work, but I imagine that Brandon won't show us it on screen. At best I'd hope for a nod to it having been experimented with during the year gap. Something like Teft giving a lesson on the surges and a squire brings it up as a potential tactic and Teft acknowledges it's efficacy but says that the end results don't justify the means and that they should stick to something more honorable like using a "traditional" weapon. Imagine Kal's threat if it were this, in chapter 7/8 where he says he will lash the Singer to the sky and he will have time to contemplate life or whatever on the way down. "I'll stick your bottom half to the ground and lash you to the sky, you can contemplate your choices while you slowly feel your stomach rip itself apart at the seams"... That's some dark stuff.

I actually don't want this. I think it's a little overrated to have Kal reconcile with everyone who has wronged him or vice versa. That's just not how real life is, it's a lot messier. You part ways with people who have been awful to you (not trying to understate Gaz). I just got to the part where Gaz and Kal reunite in WoK and I loved how that interaction was written from both their perspectives. I would much prefer Gaz work to redeem himself in his own eyes, but I think their dynamic would be better if there is always an underlying level of distrust between them but an unspoken agreement that they're trying to serve a cause higher than their personal grudges. It feels more real to me.

The "killers" were just a single Dysian Aimian (the cook from the interlude). I like this theory, but if they were using it I'm sure it would have been spotted somewhere in the half a year its been missing.

Personally, I think that not having any explanation for this makes him more compelling and a better character. People are not the same person in private and in public. In the last two prologues we got to see that when Gavilar was in private he wasn't the same man that he was to the rest of the world. He was slowly changing his external self, from a warlord into what he thought was a "great man" using the Codes and SoH as a way to further his own selfish goals. I think the Gavilar's story is over, he died and will not return. The purpose of the flashbacks (aside from plot, etc.) with Gavilar is to show that people are perceived differently depending on who is perceiving them and it is hard to judge the true character of a person. What is the benefit to bringing Gavilar back to life (after 4 prologues showing his death)? So that he can be Odium's champion? The foil to Dalinar? Sure that could be a good reason, but why is that any better than letting Gavilar be his own troubled person and use a character we have seen up front become Odium's champion? Someone like Adolin or Moash?

Heartbeats not seconds. Also, his killing of Sadeas is still relatively secret. I think only Shallan and Dalinar know, I don't think this is commonplace knowledge. This is super awesome. Thanks for compiling all of this

Tuesdays. And you can listen to Brandon read some sections of 7/8 online.

Sorry @Chaos, was meant to be a joke, but I see how my comment could be seen as contentious. Feel free to delete both of these if you would like.

Moving away from Moash specifically here. Basically eye color on Roshar does not work like it does on Earth. Humans there (for the most part) have darkeyes. When a darkeyes becomes a radiant a part of their spiritweb changes and their eyecolor changes to correspond with the Order that they are a part of. Given their spiritweb change when they have kids their kids will have lighteyes of the same color. Their spiritweb capacity for "lighteyedness" is filled. This works the same for getting a shardblade, they bond with it and given enough time their spiritweb will permanently change. Well, when a lighteyes picks up a shardblade or joins an order of Radiant their "lighteyedness" is alright filled, so their eyes may take on a tinge of the Order's natural color, however, their eyes will not fully change colors. Since eyecolor is tied directly to their spiritwebs it allows for a higher rate of heterochromacy within darkeyes and lighteyes children.

Heavily split on party lines with a minority of people saying that it couldn't possibly exist?

Could he though? The mechanism that allowed your mistborn example to stick around was heavily foreshadowed throughout the trilogy as well as very heavily rooted in Realmatic theory. I don't think that Gavilar would come back to life that route for two reasons. 1. Using the same method to bring someone back from death is repetitive and undermines the impact death has. 2. It wouldn't make sense in this scenario. As far as we know Gavilar was not Invested at all. At best he was a proto-Radiant, at worst he was just some egotistical schmuck. I'm not saying that Gavilar is 100% dead, I won't think that for any Cosmere character anymore unless there's a WoB saying so. If he were to survive by being a Cognitive Shadow I think there would have to be some explanation for how he became one, that we haven't seen yet. The jury is still out at there's 6 (7) more books until SA is complete and we can say for sure. Personally I'm not buying it.

If you're looking for more info on it checkout the coppermind entry on Forgery

But like, what's the goal here? Are they trying to give Harmony the ability to talk to me? Turn me into a koloss? Like what do they want? Is it the Set?

I'm pretty sure Adonalsium comes from Judaism's Adonai -- one of the names of God that translates to "my lord". My personal favorite is Hashem which translates as "the name"

It's been a bit since I've read the Emperor's Soul and I'm not the most knowledgeable on Forgery in the first place, so I hope someone can step in to fill any gaps here. I would compare Forgery the Selish art to forgery in real life. If I wanted to make a replica of the Mona Lisa how would I do that? Well, I would try to get the same canvas and the same paints and then make as close of a brush stroke by brush stroke replica as possible, it's not the original, but it's a "copy". Shai likely did something similar for the Moon Scepter or the piece of art she swapped (soulstamping for the emperors soul is more complex, so we'll get to that). She makes a forgery of the physical object in a traditional sense, and then stamps it to change the objects Identity so that it believes it is the original. So she's first making a pretty good replica and then turning it into a "copy". It still isn't the original, but it is much closer than would be possible with traditional forgery on Earth. Making a copy of the emperor's soul is a different beast altogether. If you could imagine the entirety of the emperor as a string of code that will explain everything they've experienced, how they think, etc. then you could feasibly make a "copy" of that code. So that is what Shai is doing, she's creating a stamp or essentially code that contains the "Platonic Essence" of the emperor. The Selish magic hooks into the Identity of the physical thing and tricks it into believing whatever the stamp tells it (stamps can fail for a variety of reasons that Shai discusses), but creating a copy is really about making the stamped object malleable enough to take the stamp.

I think this is a very important question and I'm excited to see if Brandon explores the philosophical implications that you mentioned with Taravangian and the Diagram. I've seen theories that the Rosharans will become refugees again and I think that the knowledge of other humans from other planets would give credence to the theory, although I don't know how that will interplay with each of our major powers goals and philosophies. For the big T I imagine this knowledge would completely undermine his philosophy and goals, however, he's made a pact with Odium so who knows what would happen. For other nations that aren't as invested in the fight they may be ok with fleeing through Shadesmar to another planet (the chaos that would cause elsewhere would be nutty). Although I think that for the Radiants and Dalinar they wouldn't be ok with leaving, I think some of them have recognized that Odium is a Cosmere-wide threat that either needs to be eliminated or contained.

Sorry, didn't mean to say you did. Just hand't seen anyone explicitly make that distinction. I assumed when I was reading it that he was, and then this convo made me go WAIT A SECOND. Just spitballing here, but what if it has something to do with Rysn's larkin? We know the Lanceryns (or however you spell that) were from Aimia. What if Jasnah from her research decided to send Rysn specifically because of that fact.

I was thinking it was like a giant barge or a ferry. I'm stoked for a visualization or a better description.

Yalb isn't on the Wandersail right now. We know that Rysn is the captain of that ship, and Yalb refers to the captain of the ship he's currently on his "Captain Smta" -- unless this is a typo or a mistake I would assume that the timeline for travelling to Aimia is actually much later than 5 months after the First Dreams went missing. I think this prologue is taking place earlier than the the rest of the events of the novella will. Yalb will bring the ship back to Thaylenah or at least to a port to contact the Queen, then we'll see the Wandersail set sail with Rysn, Cord, and Lopen (who else?) to Aimia.

I don't see this as a viable option. With Jasnah we were seeing her "death" from Shallan's perspective and Shallan didn't actually see the killing blow, she heard a knife hit the wood (she didn't hear reactions of the assassins). We know that Jasnah was stabbed and used stormlight to sustain herself then transition into Shadesmar around the time that Shallan heard the knife hit the deck (I don't know the exact timeline). With Gavilar we have Szeth watch his body as he "dies" and then a Shardblade coalesces around him (you could argue he summoned it then broke the bond?) but that would have broken the gemstone in the hilt right? Then Szeth writes a note in his blood. Then Jasnah and Navani come see the body and spend time with it. Transitioning yourself into Shadesmar is just that, removing yourself from the Physical, there would be no body (or clothes) left.