GudThymes

Awww man. Thank you for this though, I missed that on my readthroughs. Yeah, I'm on board with that. Hopefully Brandon will give us more about Tanavast and his story, but this theory makes a lot of sense to me -- Leras had a lot of time to set a plan in motion don't see why Honor couldn't have set up a succession plan as well (although I would prefer if it didn't repeat in that way.)

Following up again because I found some other info in another thread. Do we think he meets those criteria?

I mean Adolin is already used to killing. The entirety of Alethi culture for years has been centered around war, and Adolin is a dang good warrior. There are probably many threads debating the rationalization Adolin made in the moment and after that led to him killing Sadeas. However, I don't take it as fact that being able to kill Sadeas makes him broken inside. Many people in many places kill and justify it, that doesn't make them broken just that they have different morals.

Did he? The Stormfather chose Gavilar to receive visions, I'm not fully convinced that the Stormfather wanted to make Gavilar a bondsmith. I always interpreted the decision as Gavilar being in a place of power most likely to be able to unify Roshar and prepare them, then deferred the visions to Dalinar as he became the most powerful man in Alethkar. (Let's not even allow Elothkar that title). I always read the bonding of Dalinar to the Stormfather as something the Stormfather did not want to happen but something that Dalinar was able to take.

Right, sorry. I'm not saying that Tanavast isn't dead. Just what if he descended from being Honor and became allowed himself to be mortal. Then he had children (Kal's ancestors, then died a natural death). I think this could answer some other information about Honor's death (it being a protracted event like Leras'), dying of old age is definitely protracted. With regards to the Stormfather argument. It's not the cause of your death that allows you to become a Cognitive Shadow, it's how invested you were in the Phyiscal. I'm not fully convinced that this isn't an option.

I was just reading through some WoBs and found this. I figured it may revive some arguments here. If Elsecallers "teleport" I would assume that the Surge equivalent for the Fused is Transportation. We know that the Fused aren't as efficient as using Stormlight as the Radiants, so couldn't the crumbling husk just be remnants of that inefficiency?

I agree with this, I don't think it really makes sense for everyone to be Radiant. I'm also still not sold on that's what would happen with Adolin and Maya (Mayolin or Adoya?). Normally the Spren fills the cracks of the mortal right, I don't see that as the scenario. This was mentioned earlier on in the thread, but if that's the case then how can we be sure that it would grant Adolin access to the surges? It could be something new to the cosmere.

I don't know if she has the capacity to decide right? Or even if she regains enough of herself to decide if it wouldn't just kill her again. What I'm most excited about is learning the actual "science" behind what's happening there.

I always assumed that this was referencing the Oathpact, which is designed to keep Odium in the Rosharian system. Do we know explicitly that Rayze killed Tanavast? Is it possible that Tanavast gave up his shard in such a way that Splintered it, then became mortal again? Could that also explain why the Stormfather calls Kal "child of Tanavast". Did Tanavast give up godhood in order to have children and thus set a plan in motion that is culminating in the current events?

Set free or able to take full control? Also, since it isn't a Fused in her gemheart, I assume should is "free" to take another form right, so could she bond with another lesser spren to have a different form (say warform) and then also have Timbre? I know people are excited about seeing what would happen when one person held more than 2 surges. But imagine the combos of Listeners and the surges. Sidenote: What shard enables the Singer bonding? I assume it was of Adonalsium originally, and voidspren is of Odium? But what about the other forms?

Ahhhh, thank you for reminding me. Timbre is in her Gemheart keeping the Voidspren at bay, yeah? Wow, that's intense and very unique. I wonder if she would be able to manifest Timbre as a shardblade (if she gets that far).

I'm not sure I even have the mental capacity to understand what's happening with Venli. There are soooooo many unanswered questions in my book. (I should probably re-read her scenes with a close eye for more insight, still on WoR though).

I dove into the wiki on Lift and found this:

hahahaha, what a heck of a curse. Doesn't seem to fit into what I would describe as such. Don't mean to be a pest, but do we know for sure that is her curse? Is it possible that her boon is more than just being able to convert calories to investiture and also includes being partially in the Cognitive? Or being partially in the cognitive grants this?

She is? I didn't know that.

So the reason Lift notices this is because she is partially in the CR? Maybe someone else can back me up but on this? I believe what Honorless is saying is that Lift is sufficiently Invested to see the trail. Whereas Rock (before he went down the Windrunner path) would be able to see it because he could see into the Cognitive.

Confirming that the Singers are most definitely Pre-shattering. Predate ascensions of the Shards.

I don't think this is a cop out or this is entirely implausible. Hundreds of individuals who dedicated their lives to serving humanity and honor knowingly murdered the Spren that they have spent years with and presumably loved as themselves (because it is themself?). They did this out of honor, they felt that what they were doing was immoral and wrong, the way they lived their lives was wrong. So they broke it, detached themselves from it. If it meant death for those at the 5th ideal then I don't doubt that they wouldn't have done it. Personally though, I just can't reconcile that it does mean death because that's not what we saw on screen. I mean, we have Nale right? He's 5th ideal Skybreaker. I think you're right in most ways, I just don't think that merging as one individual means that the Spren can't manifest outside of the mortal.

I agree, I think he's dead. But to play Devil's (or Gavilar's) advocate. What if he had already replaced Nale in the oathpact? I don't know what happens to a Herald's body when they die, but I know they are sent back to Braize. Now, a herald's Honorblade is what takes them back, so that wouldn't be left. But couldn't he have an Honorblade and a regular shardblade bonded at one time? In my opinion I think Gavilar being a part of the Oathpact is the only way to explain away how he survived -- although I don't believe he had achieved that yet.

I love your theorycrafting, this was a delight to read. I don't know how my argument changes this conclusion but I wanted to discuss a couple things and how it could provide insight into this. 1) The Spren bond and the fifth ideal We know they are merging into one Identity with separate minds. I think this gives credence both for and against your argument, but that's likely debatable. 2) The Recreance: With the Recreance we see Radiants who have sworn atleast 4 ideals (shardplate) and likely all 5 (given that this was commonplace enough and all the Radiants save Skybreakers took part). Now, with that said, when the radiants gave up their shards they walked away. This implies the breaking of the Nahel bond didn't kill the mortal, but we know it killed the spren. Now, if the spren and the mortal become the same being in the Cognitive and Physical I would assume that this would be impossible. Nowhere else in the Cosmere is a person able to just kill themselves by making a decision (to break the bond).

Ahhhh. Thank you! Alright, this tears apart my argument against how Ado reviving Maya. Thank you :D. I don't like this argument. Just because a character wasn't intended to be primary from their inception doesn't mean that they don't have a chance to change and evolve the story as it goes. There are ten books in this series. Brandon has said that he knows broad strokes how the story will be told, but if he comes up with a new idea or new way of getting there I highly doubt he won't be willing to change the story. Hence Adolin being born. I think the fact that Adolin exists in the first place as a character is proof that he is important and has a role. I agree with the content of what you're saying here, but not the spirit. Adolin's future while isn't set in stone or known to us (the book isn't out and 5-10 aren't written), it's clear that he's important. Brandon won't kill him unless there's a reason to. I think how much attention Brandon has given to the Maya Adolin scenes is a clue in that this is something we need to pay attention to. I don't know that Adolin will play an important part to the plot/story of Stormlight. I wholeheartedly believe that their interaction is important to the Cosmere and to the Nahel Bonds. Aluminum foil hat time. It could play into the Oathpact. I find the Recreance and the potentially broken Oathpact as good analogues. If Adolin can restore Maya, could that mean they could restore the Oathpact? (Regardless of whether or not they should). I agree, although given the arguments above I think that him becoming an Edgedancer would be more because Maya is a cultivationspren rather than Adolin being a proto-Radiant Edgedance. I don't think it's much of a stretch that if they form a Nahel bond then the type of spren that Maya is may change.

Yes, I am a windrunner (with edgedancer and truthwatcher) as close seconds.

Ooooh. That's a hard question. I don't recall the names of the stories but either Sixth of the Dusk or the soulstamping one with Shai. I loved how Brandon really got inside of the head of Sixth as a tracker and then seeing the future of the cosmere was very exciting. With Shai I think the story itself was just very compelling and the magic of soulstamping is just so so so cool.

What's your reasoning for this? We know their Identities merge definitely, but to say they have the same Identity? I've pulled a few different WoB's that I think challenge this. Let me know your thoughts? If you can take the Nahel Bond from the spren, then wouldn't you also steal the whole Identity of the mortal? Brandon says "weird ramifications" so I'm not sure if that would be one of them? Still undecided here. Here's another that I found. I'm not sure how it directly changes our arguments but if I read this correctly the Nahel Bond is based off Connection. So presumably what Adolin is doing is restoring the Connection to Maya, thus restoring her? I'm now unsure of my view on this.

Thank you! If you count Arcanum Unbounded then there's your answer. Otherwise I would say Way of Kings. I think the early progression of Kaladin as a character is one of the most captivating things I have ever read. I don't think I could ever get tired of reading it.