Honorless

10 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Where is the link between sibling and BAM? 

I did not get it?

During the False Desolation, Ba-Ado-Mishram somehow bonded to the Parshendi and granted them access to Voidlight. Melishi, the only Bondsmith of that time stopped them somehow, with unintended consequences, like turning them into Parshmen and hurting the Sibling (though it is noted it was already "changing" from one of the gems retrieved from the gem library in Urithiru). It is suspected that he used the Sibling in some manner to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram 

Now I'm having a VERY bad premonition of someone restoring the Sibling and ending up freeing Ba-Ado-Mishram

Honestly, I would if I could.

mot?

Yeah, hence the visions. But that still leaves us with no clues as to how Bondsmiths are normally chosen. Stormfather might go around, ready to accept an oath from a worthy would-be Radiant but what would Nightwatcher and Sibling do? 

I would be Second of the Noon

2 hours ago, LopentheHerdazian said:

It's a good theory. However I think that in one of the WoB he refers to the nightwatcher as one of the bondspren. 

It would be cool if the bondsmith for her had to wish for the bond. However on the wishing for radiance part it's more complicated. I expect that one of the invigorators would have asked for it.

However the nightwatcher doesn't grant any wish. She just takes the desires and then grants any wish or boon she thinks they deserve. So I guess that she simply didn't grant that kind of wish.

Invigorators?

How else would someone bond her then? Does she choose somehow, wouldn't that would mean she doesn't always stay at the Valley waiting for wishmakers

Yeah, I remember that part from Baxil's interlude where he and Av discuss the Nightwatcher. However, I can't imagine that no one, in the history of Roshar, asked her to be turned into a Surgebinder. I wonder what she gave them as boon and curse, and if there were cases where she found the supplicant worthy of the boon and if she still included a curse.

If she is a Bondsmith spren, then like Stormfather it must've been a known fact at the time, after all she's quite famous. What, with her wish granting and what-not. Someone has to have also come to her, hoping to join not just the Radiants but the Order which seems to be the most respected among them.

51 minutes ago, The traveller said:

I think same level would imply that she is one of the three. And dalinar has also asked stormfather, how many are there like you, there is you and there is nightwatcher, anyone else? And stormfather replied that there one other. They are slumbering 

so I think it also proves that nightwatcher is indeed one of the three. 

Cusicesh is related to the sibling but is at a slightly lower level than these three? Wow. 

Totally agree this book can not come any sooner

Dalinar asked if Stormfather and Cultivation were two, which Stormfather found hilarious. He told Dalinar that he'd like to see him try.

I know right, plus this book would show Willshapers AND more of Odium's forces, hopefully more info on Voidbinding

3 minutes ago, The Sovereign said:

At Jordancon '16 Brandon confirmed that the Nightwatcher is on the same level as the Stormfather:

 

Same level, yes. Nothing about her definitively being one of the three though.

I think there's another WoB that says Cusicesh is connected to the Sibling but not in the way that they were thinking. So Cusicesh probably isn't one of the three. Wonder what the Sibling is like, then. Ugh, waiting for the next books is killing me. 

Hello, first post, be gentle with me

We don't really know that the Nightwatcher is a Bondsmith spren. It's a good theory, seems widely accepted and quite probable. But so far as I know, no in-book quote or WoB confirms her as such. I think it's likely that she probably is one of the three Bondsmith spren, as a counterpart to the Stormfather.

She already has a magic system (-ish?) associated with her, the Boon and Curse: granting a wish but with a curse attached alongside it. Couldn't someone also ask her for the boon of being granted Radiancy (is that the word?). Has anyone in Roshar's history? Could she grant other spren bonds, lower spren or spren of the other Orders? And assuming she is a Radiant spren, could someone ask to bond with her? Could it be how she herself is supposed to be bonded?

Could the next Bondsmith have to trek to the Valley and ask for the boon of bonding her? What could be the Curse to accompany such a Boon? Would they need to speak the Ideals or would the Curse, sort of, supplant the words?

Sorry @Wander89 and @Aragorn, it didn't occur to me to mention or quote you in my responses so that you get pinged when I replied, I am still new here.

I also noticed you taking the time to  respond to other introduction threads, that's very kind of you

1 hour ago, AonEne said:

Okay, I got Elsecaller. That’s because one of the ones I would guess myself as, though the not-relating-to-people is way off base.  However, I only just found my Myers-Briggs results (I picked one at random *winces*) so I’m going to take it again. 

Edit: (this is like my third edit in a row, huh) Still Elsecaller. Weird. 

Ironically, I got Skybreaker

@AonEne got it: https://www.playbuzz.com/item/2d32daff-6349-416b-90b0-937f8ae8101f

33 minutes ago, AonEne said:

You mean Skybreakers?  

I have to agree with that; I’m just paranoid. You have a good day too! 

Wait, have you done the quiz? Is that the Order you got? 

3 hours ago, AonEne said:

I have never said that’s I agree with Nale, nor that I agree with their laws. Of course that’s a bad law. What I mean saying is that it is a law. 

I’m merely trying to look at all sides of the issue. I do agree with your opinion of Moash, simply not your opinion of Elhokar. But since I don’t want this to get toxic and many, many discussions along these lines do, I’m going to stop here. 

What did you think of it? 

Just a comparison to the Ideals of Skyrunners, nothing more.

I would say that this forum is much less prone to toxicity compared to many other forums, if I gave offence I do apologize. This IS after all a forum for discussing Sanderson's works not our morality. Have a good day and lets agree to disagree.

6 hours ago, AonEne said:

The thing is, while that’s type of thing would look bad in our society(ies, I don’t know where you’re from), it’s perfectly natural for the Alethi to disregard darkeyes. Am I saying that the caste system is good? No. But you can’t condemn someone for following it when it’s their whole way of life. No governmental or societial structure is perfect. 

Please don’t curse. The Shard is meant to be a family-friendly site.  Anyway, why did that sentence specifically pique you? 

I never said he did deserve jail time. I’m saying he didn’t make the right decision in a moment of anger, and the same is true for Elhokar (and frankly, everyone else in existence). If you hate Elhokar for his bad choices, it stands to reason that you should also hate Kaladin for his. 

Elhokar had many more appearances than the two when he was drunk. He also did plenty of political decision-making; not always the right decisions, but he made them. 

Budding architect? I don’t remember him ever having anything to do with architecture. Could you remind me of where in the books it was said that he had an interest in it? 

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Yes, killing in general is wrong. I haven’t disputed that. 

Given the enormity of what was done to him, and the fact that he was sentenced to death by Elhokar simply for doing something that insulted his position (how dare that darkeyes!) without even any consideration at all for an actual legal process because their law grants that kind of power to the king and lighteyes nobility. It being legal was kind of THE problem here. The law is at fault here. Don't go and join Nale here!

Yes, Kaladin got mad & passionate, made a public claim against a lighteyes, Elhokar got mad, sentenced him to death. I totally should be equally mad at both of them here.

So you're saying more evidence for his ineptness? Gr8! 

Shallan noted his drawings & plans of Kholinar were really well done. Navani notes that he has a knack for planning the arrangement of a party area.

I am saying that Elhokar's assassination by Moash did make sense from Moash's PoV and didn't make me lose any sympathy towards his character.

8 hours ago, AonEne said:

Keep in mind that from the perspective of most Rosharans, Elhokar isn’t particularly classist. Sure, he’s a lighteyes and views darkeyes in an inferior light, but he doesn’t specifically mistreat them; not onscreen, anyway. Yes, if it hadn’t been for Dalinar, he might have killed Kaladin because of what he said about Amaram, and that’s definitely extreme. But have you ever done something in a fit of anger? Kaladin had just completely ruined the plans that they’d made. That was not the time to get revenge on Amaram, and he should have known it, but he acted on strong emotions - and so did Elhokar, afterward. Besides, it was the law. 

Elhokar has been drunk like twice onscreen iirc. Both of those times were at the end of WOR, close together. I don’t think that counts as a personality trait. And while he’s quite inept at some things, he isn’t at others. Everyone is inept at something. 

I pretty much agree with your view of Moash. In fact, I think he can still have a redemption arc. But killing Elhokar was wrong. It made sense for Moash and I don’t blame him for it, but he still shouldn’t have done it. That’s why I disputed your “he did nothing wrong”. 

It’s hard for me to see Elhokar Kholin swearing the First Ideal as well, but I recognize that it was foreshadowed. Brandon painted Elhokar as someone who had made a lot of mistakes, and someone who was certainly broken. He also consistently tried to improve himself, even if he wasn’t doing the best at it that he could have. So I understand his path toward Radiancy, even if I probably wouldn’t have guessed that he would actually get there. (Which, in the end, he didn’t.) 

If I got what you're trying to say with the "most Rosharans..." comment right, yeah, that is true. Elhokar is a product of his society. Yes, he has a more general disregard for darkeyes rather than any particular gangsta-style racism, still that kind of behavior doesn't look good on a person, much less a ruler. "Besides, it was the law"??? the hell...? I'm not touching that sentence. Yes, it was the wrong time to choose for Kaladin but he definitely didn't deserve even the jail time for that! Specially considering the things Amaram did.

I didn't count how often (or otherwise) he was drunk. He didn't have many appearances though, and those seemed pretty defining moments for his character. Elhokar was always a centre of the party but not the politics, he didn't partake in any decision-making, a point acknowledged by Dalinar & Navani. Being a King overshadows being a budding architect though, and he seemed quite dismal at that role.

Killing, in general, is wrong. It making sense from Moash's context should be the point of argument here.

Yes, Elhokar for all his failings did try to make things right at the end, possibly even at the start but with much less inspiration. It was far to soon for me to warm up towards that character, however.

2 hours ago, AonEne said:

Okay, explain that reasoning to me. 

Well, never liked Elhokar since his introduction: inept, self-important, lazy, rash, arrogant, classist?/racist? (not sure what's the better fit for the lighteye/darkeye dynamic), drunk. He almost ordered Kaladin's execution over Amaram.

Moash, and all his anger and hatred, did make sense. He struck me as more of a tragic figure who lost his way. Looking forward to a redemption arc.

So, Moash's murder of Elhokar didn't really make me angry... the fact that Elhokar might've completed the Words, however, kinda blew my fuse.

Slightly different than most people, i assume... I really liked reading Alendi's journals, also got attached to Preservation (Leras). I would love a classical era Scadrial novel

Never liked Elhokar

Moash did nothing wrong

Yeah, I've read all of the published Cosmere novels & short stories, my favourite's Emperor's Soul & Sixth of the Dusk

Hello guys, fellow Sanderson fan here, been reading the posts here for a long while, finally decided to join in.

Hope you all don't mind if i point out a few cool things i noticed that haven't been pointed out (i think)

Narak - the city in the Shattered Plains, is the name of the Hindu equivalent for Hell

On a similar note, Kaladin's name can be taken to mean 'Black Day' in Hindi

Renarin is kinda growing on me, looking forward to his Truthwatcher vows & powers. I thought that the future sight could make sense with the two Truthwatcher Surges if seen as 'Illumination *of* Progression', don't know what to think with the Book 3 reveals