Elegy

That's a good point! I always imagined green to be an allusion to the Old Tree star sign of Taldain, as in green standing for the leaves (the avatars) of that tree (Autonomy) that get scattered all over the cosmere. Theoretically, that would imply that the other "leaves" would be green as well. But I'm aware that this is only speculation built on associations rather than on actual hints.

Doesn't there refer to Roshar (e.g. the First Desolations)? Ashyn isn't mentioned once in the WOB, so it doesn't feel like that's the referent. There are spoiler warnings in the book, as in "includes minor/major spoilers for ...", so as long as you take those to heart, it's all good.

I think some never left. There are a few habitable places, but seemingly not on the surface of the planet but in "floating cities" (they are mentioned in the Arcanum Unbounded essay). How those work and how old they are or if they existed pre-cataclysm, I have no idea. But I guess Ashyn is the least populated of all the inhabited cosmere planets we know of (except for maybe Threnody).

That's because Silence Divine is set during Stormlight Archive/Wax & Wayne Era Mistborn: (On a side-note, the reason Roshar hasn't reached that level of technology is presumably because the desolations hindered it from developing properly.) I was refering to the people from Ashyn traveling to Roshar, which happened ~9000 years prior to that (although that's only a guess). There is no indication of any interaction between the planets after that.

I came across that WOB while looking for the quotes and thought about it. It doesn't change the colors of the Shards, only their origin, and it means that the colors aren't prescribed. It raises a lot of new questions, as in why Autonomy and Cultivation see themselves as the same color etc. The way Shards perceive themselves is also influenced by their Intent, since their way of perceiving in general is engrossed by it. Maybe there is a leaning, since Preservation hasn't become black or Ruin white. There might not be a greater scheme the colors fit into, but the corruption/Dominion=red connection still seems relevant . Did Skai see his power as red because he observed it as the color of the things he represents. Of course, him and Devotion might have just seen themselves as opposites that weren't quite as polar as Ruin vs. Preservation, which would raise the question why Dominion hasn't become blue or Devotion hasn't become red instead. So I guess they have influence on it, but the way they influence it is also influenced by other things, like their Intent, so there are colors that are way more likely. (Please call me out if I'm projecting.)

Scion linked that WOB, but it was the other one he quoted that cleared things up for me. (Like hinted above, I feel he tackled that topic in a counterintuitive way in OB.) He did? Is there a source for that?

I have not found a thread on this topic, to my surprise. Supposedly, every Shard is able to form a perpendicularity. Every perpendicularity has a color. From what we’ve seen, the color of perpendicularities differ from Shard to Shard. Brandon said about this: So the perpendicularities are color-coded, which means that the Shards are too, since the perpendicularities are made out of the essence of the Shards, for example the god metals (and Ruin and Preservation took on the very same colors of their perpendicularities when we saw them “on-screen”). However: So it is true, but it is 1) not really important (but that will not stop us, will it), and 2) not really specific. Let’s collect the colors of the perpendicularities we’ve seen or know enough about: Well of Ascension (Preservation) = White Pits of Hathsin (Ruin) = Black Lake near Elantris (Devotion) = Blue Lake in the Horneater Peaks (Cultivation) = Green Patji’s Eye (Autonomy) – Green The perpendicularity Dalinar opened (Honor) – it's only described as "glowing" and "brilliant". Not sure if that means golden or light blue. The gloryspren present are golden, if the perpendicularity is connected to them, it might be golden. However, on page 1136, it says Venli sees "thunder and lightning" in him just before he opens it, and lightning is usually associated with light blue. So it's not clear, could be any of them. This would be a question to ask Brandon. There are two more things of note here. First: There are two different Shards with perpendicularities that are associated with the color green – Autonomy and Cultivation. This ties into what Brandon said about the colors not being “as specific as [the questioner is] thinking”. There is a possibility that two Shards share the same color, or maybe different shades of the same color. This doesn’t particularly surprise me, as I have problems finding 16 completely distinct color tones. Second, it’s obvious that these are only 6 of the 10 Shards we know. There are 4 Shards whose Perpendicularities we haven’t seen yet: Odium, Dominion, Endowment and Ambition. As far as these are concerned, we are left with speculation. So this is what I gathered: Odium has been connected to several color tones throughout his appeareances and in the mythology surrounding him. For the longest time, I presumed his color to be red, but then Brandon confirmed: That means, things connected with Odium being red doesn’t have to mean anything except for him corruption (or co-opting) another Shard’s magic, which – given his way of approaching things – wouldn’t be a surprising thing for him to do at all. There’s also a theme of orange present, but the color I find the most convincing is violet, given this occurance of the color when Dalinar confronts Odium and gets a glimpse at the meaning of its Intent, which should be what the Shard actually *is* instead of what instruments it uses. Notice how there’s a lot of colors mentioned over the course of this one passage, but one of them is particularly striking: It goes on to describe the passion, harted and ecstasy that is associated with Odium. All of this is a description of “this” violet blackness. Dalinar only reaches the actual Intent of Odium once the flame turns violet. And, thinking about it, it would make sense for Odium to be violet, since the color is often associated with drowsiness, haziness, intoxication, which seems to summarize Odium rather well. Whether you define him as hate or passion, he’s all about intoxication. Next off, we have Dominion. So we know that Devotion is coded as blue. As for Dominion, we don’t have proof, but some indications. Like this WOB: If he is fascinated by “the blue and the red” as opposites and he sees red as the opposite of blue and Dominion as an opposite of Devotion (which is blue), then it seems logical to assume that Dominion might be red. This fits with other indicators – the heavy use of red in all things Fjordellian, especially the priests, which in the end worship Dominion. This leads me to another thing: Assuming that Dominion is red – and we have strong indications for that – then red is used in two contexts: Dominion on the one hand, the corruption of Investiture on the other hand. This is most probably not a coincidence: Corrupting foreign Investiture – dominating it – seems like a very Dominion thing to do. I don’t mean to imply that Dominion has anything to do with what Odium does when red shows up – but that the principles of Dominion’s Intent are at play. The essence of Dominion and domination are red, so Investiture dominating Investiture has the same color. Assuming that this is correct – and I’m assuming a lot now, I know – will open a whole new can of worms. Any time a given color has shown up when Investiture was at work might indicate principles of Shardic Intents. The blue lines seen by Allomancers have the color of Devotion (although there might be another Shard with the color blue), so if Devotion is all about connection, does that hint at the connection between the Allomancer and the metal? That seems like a stretch. Elantrians are known to be radiant white – a connection to the Intent of Preservation would make sense, since Elantrians, not aging anymore, are “preserved”. With all that being said, there are still two more Shards that I haven’t covered: Endowment and Ambition. With these two, any kind of speculation is completely baseless and all I could rely on at this point are vague plausabilities. My own personal baseless guesses are Endowment being a maybe violet or another blue Shard (depending on whether Honor is blue or golden, but who knows, there are enough shades of blue for three Intents) and Ambition being silver. But for the moment, I’d like the points I’ve made up till now to be food for thought. So what do you think? Does the connection make sense? Is it completely unlikely? And what uses of color in combination of Investiture could have a deeper meaning?

Same, it's crazy! The fused seem to be the cognitive shadows of ancient parshendi - probably those who were originally betrayed by the humans, but that we don't know. It's particularly noteworthy how the parshendi apparently hated Odium as well but sided with him to have their revenge on the humans and their homeland back. Sometimes I think there must be more to the atrocities of the humans against the parshendi. Like, the hatred of the fused seems so insanely immeasurable, I wonder what they did to them.

Seems I missed that WOB! That's interesting. Seems a bit like a weird choice of him to make the book imply it and then relativize it like that but ok.

I don't really see the "they did not" in the "he did kinda come along with them", although it obviously seems to be way more of a gray area than I previously thought. He obviously was around though. Also, I mentioned it in another thread just a couple of minutes ago so I thought I'd bring it up, I kinda hope Odium is not responsible for the catastrophe on Ashyn. I'd like the humans on there to have screwed up all by themselves. Edit: There's also this passage in Oathbringer, chapter 111: That makes it sound like they brought him with them right away. It could be allegorical, but it sure makes it sound that way.

I doubt the people of Ashyn were all that advanced when they came to Roshar. That must have been thousands and thousands of years before the SA (given how the Last Desolation was 4500 years before and there were many of them prior to it). We don't know if Odium brought the means to travel via the Spiritual Realm (given that Brandon manages to make it canon) or if they had it themselves. I reckon the oathgates themselves could be a remnant of that technology/magic. We know that the people from Ashyn brought the "terrestial" wilflife on Roshar, e.g. chickens, horses. The Shinovar things that don't fit the theme of shells and crustacean stuff that's present on Roshar. The apocalypse is the disaster hinted at towards the end of Oathbringer. The ancestors of the Knights Radiant destroyed their home planet (Ashyn) with some type of Investiture connected with the surges. There are theories that the Dawnshards might have played a part in that, but we don't know a lot about those or what they even are, so that's just speculation. (Edit: Correction - We DO actually know that the Dawnshards were used to destroy Ashyn, we just don't know what exactly they are or do yet.) Exactly, that is why the Recreance happened. The Knights Radiant broke their oaths because they figured their powers were too dangerous for them (although there certainly are other reasons as well). As to whether or not Odium helped destroy the planet, it is plausible. Maybe he needed an army against Roshar so he might at least have encouraged them. On the other hand, we on Earth didn't need an evil god to tell us to drop atomic bombs, so it wouldn't be necessary. I kinda hope that not every big disaster in the cosmere is part of the plan of a higher being. Then again, it does seem suspiciously practical of that to happen just as Odium wanted to take on Roshar. But maybe he chose that system exactly because he saw that opportunity. At this point, I'm just juggling ideas in my head.

^Symphony X? Nice. Don't know about specific character themes, but these two songs feel like they fit the general theme of the Cosmere very well:

I don't think that's the case, since the shades on Threnody behave in a similar way, and Threnody doesn't have any Shard Invested. I like the idea ... the more Invested Shards, the closer the realms on a world, that sound plausible. However, that would not be the reason for the spren interaction, since we know that spren were active on Roshar before any Shards arrived. Regarding Honor's perpendicularity, we saw it and it was not inside a highstorm. I personally was under the impression that the gloryspren were the perpendicularity, e.g. formed it when enough of them were in one place.

Since it's the Cosmere Discussion, I understood it as Cosmere villains only.

Shadows for Silence is set between Warbreaker and Stormlight, so within the 300 years after Secret History. Threnody has definitely not recovered. However, it's probable that the discovery of the Forests of Hell and the cataclysm of the Homeland by the Evil hadn't yet happened by the time of Secret History, because that was 100 years before Shadows for Silence. So that would be the case if that novella was set in the latter 200 of the 300 possible years for it to occur in.

Wax and Kaladin would be very interesting, agreed! Khriss and Jasnah. Wayne and Shallan. Szeth following Elend would be nice.

I'll always have a fondness for Ruin. It was just mind-beding seeing that power in action back when I didn't have a clue about the Cosmere and stuff. How could I have expected them to go from fighting a fake god to fighting a "real" one that makes volcanos erupt because he likes it? It blew my mind. As a character, Paalm might be my favorite villain yet because of how relatable she is. I'm not the biggest fan of SoS, but that ending. That ending. As a whole though, Brandon is one of the few writers to write more compelling protagonists than antagonists, in my book.

It's very likely. There's this WOB that was referenced by Pathfinder above: We know that the humans came with Odium, but not if the technology/magic to travel to other worlds was brought by him. But it will be close ot "Oathgating", assuming he figures out a way to make it work. If he doesn't, well he will probably have to change it to have happened through Shadesmar instead, given that that's the more usual way of transitioning from one world to another. That, however, would mean that they would need a perpendicularity on Ashyn to get inside Shadesmar. The most likely way for a perpendicularity to form on Ashyn would be Odium Investing (since Ashyn doesn't have a Shard), but as far as we know, Odium didn't ever want to Invest in any planet: That said, we have seen an Oathgate being used for entering Shadesmar, so there might be another way that Odium could be capable of. Soo, a lot of stuff is open, we'll have to wait and see. I definitely like the idea of Urithiru functioning as a giant Oathgate that connects Roshar with Ashyn!

The reading order of the series is not really important. Brandon intentionally wrote them to stand on their own. I definitely recommend getting to Mistborn because of how that series (just like Stormlight) touches on a lot of underlying principles that are relevant for the cosmere as a whole. Warbreaker is interesting as a backstory to Stormlight side-characters, but it's a stand-alone story. He wrote it as sort of a prequel, but we didn't know that for half a decade or so. I wouldn't call it a prologue, but it's connected. I definitely recommend checking out the short story collection Arcanum Unbounded because it showcases the versatility of the cosmere very well and gives a good overview. On principle though, it isn't really important which road you take.

It's certainly one of the most interesting events in the cosmere. The First Desolation is the only case of a war between whole cultures from different planets we specifically know of. It's very cosmere-centric. That said, given how important the Desolations are for the SA, a lot of it will definitely be revealved over the books. If he gets to the actual novella, I doubt it will be that important in the greater scheme, since the stand-alone novellas up till now have all been just side-storys - like the SA interludes on a cosmere basis. The world-building will certainly be interesting, especially seeing how the Shards in the system influence it - Brandon confirmed it to be centered around 10 as well due to that influence.

I mean, as reckless as it is and as much of a perfect argument for him being a bad guy it is, I find it absolutely hilarious. It's so Kelsier. He just couldn't let that opportunity slip.

Do you have the Cosmere short story collection Arcanum Unbounded? It doesn't have an Ashyn novella, but there's an essay about the planetary system of every story in there and, given that Edgedancer is a Stormlight story, there's an essay about the Rosharan System as well. There are minor clues in that one, but (as usual with these essays) very vague. Most of the things we know about Ashyn are things Brandon confirmed on events. Check the Arcanum, which gathers the "Words of Brandon": https://wob.coppermind.net/ (But spoilers go unmarked there). These are the entries tagged with Ashyn (it's 18 atm): https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=&date_from=2003-12-05&date_to=2019-04-09&speaker=&tags=ashyn&ordering=rank There's is currently no story set on Ashyn, although Brandon has frequently stated that he plans to write an Ashyn story called The Silence Divine, which once was planned as a novel, then was planned as a novella. I don't know if he'll ever write it, but who knows. Maybe we'll get to see Ashyn in the back 5 SA ...

I wonder what a black hole would look like in Shadesmar (assuming it's being observed).

There's this: So I guess the answer is no. (On a side-note, I once I had a theory that the Rosharan system is the center of the cosmere, like the Stormlight Archive is the center of the Cosmere Sequence, but that's done for since this WOB happened~)

This is the first time I've read of that theory that Trell is actually Sazed's Ruin side hijacking the name of a god he knows to run rampage with it, as a sign of Discord coming through. It really got me thinking. I wouldn't like it though, since Sazed's arc in Hero of Ages was specifically for him to become a person that would be able to hold both Shards as Harmony. That progression would be rendered useless. I don't believe it's true though. We know that the metal at the end of SoS belongs to Trell, and it's an unknown metal. If it had something to do with Harmony, it would be known. It has to be a Shard outside of Scadrial. Although I think the Discord thing would have been the one thing that I wouldn't have expected at all. Generally, concerning Trell, I've come to the point of "Come on, it's not a secret anymore. We already know. Who else could it be?"