Oltux72

Am I the only one to whom sending Szeth and Kaladin to Shinovar looks like Dalinar getting the less mentally stable people out of Urithiru before the contest?

(Tress of the Emerald Sea) In fact a whole people leaving a planet is quite impractical. The Iriali include ancient people, infirm people, mothers about to go into labor bearing twins or even sailors en route to a port in Natanatan who will hear of this proclamation only months after it is made or people in an Azish prison, just to give examples. With the methods so far described you are going to leave a considerable minority behind, even if you are ready to assume that everybody is willing to heed the call. (Tress of the Emerald Sea) there will be a much more robust intervention to pick up the stragglers or even, maybe in addition, we may consider the dark option that not heeding the call is lethal

As far as we know that is what you use Tension for.

Could you elaborate? It seems to me that this treaty, with some exceptions, turns this into yet another Desolation. It is set to repeat in a thousand years.

It is good in the sense that using first aid techniques after a major accident is good. It is bad in the sense that the need to use these techniques exists in the first place. They are picking the low risk/low reward option; thereby precluding getting a better deal later. Yet they are doing so by not using all incentives they have at hand, namely releasing Odium. They might have gotten Vedenar back. I must disagree. Aren't they talking about adding adding Hoid as a protected representative to the treaty in Rhythm of War? Yes. But it won't take him farther away from it, like letting the contest take place as planned would do.

That is a bit hard to do. The whole history of Roshar depends on Honor trapping Odium in the Rosharan system. That very much raises the question why the Radiants do not make an offer to release him. Yes, but they admit their position. The treaty acknowledges the realities on the battlefirld. And those are that the Radiants are losing. Hence they are reday to finalize their losses. Saying this is heretic, but that is the decision of a man selected by the being merged with the CS of Tanavast. A man bonded to that being. A man who has spent years in the presence of an emotional allomancer who shares that goal. It is not in the best interest of Roshar. Jasnah or the other monarchs would not make that decision on their own. In case of a draw it would seem to me that the status quo before the contest would persist. The war would go on. The Jasnah and Hoid scene (Brandon's reading from SA#5 at Tampa) That very much implies that they have a written contract.

To be fair, do you think his plan would have worked, if he had told the crew?

The Lost Metal saw quite some usage of purified Dor? That raises a question. Do the Ghostbloods make it themselves or do they purchase it from the Ire?

Leshwi knew a Honorspren. And it looks to have been from her youth, before she became a Fused. I think we can assume that. Honorspren and servants of Odium really don't mix. This is a problem. Honorspren are modelled after humans, not Singers. They must postdate the arrival of refugees from Ashyn. Raboniel, however, hails from a time a few decades after the arrival of the Ashynites. So how quickly did the Spren adapt and how long is the period over which Fused were created?

Can the bearer of Yelig-nar use Reverse Lashings?

Kelsier trust his crew in the sense that a good general makes sure he can trust his staff. But that does not mean that they are a democracy. In the end he makes the command decisions.

I am afraid I fail to see the need. Odium already threatened to take away a Fused's immortality in Oathbringer during the battle of Thaylen Field. Are you saying that that was an empty threat?

The problem I see with that very plausible situation is that it is quite conventional an issue when drawing up a ceasefire, hence Dalinar must have considered it.

Let's look at the contract. There is a limit to how much a battlefield under preindustrial conditions can can change in ten days. The contest is in essence about Herdaz and Alethkar. Hence the results, win or lose, amount to: the Radiants lose at least about 1/3 of Roshar Odium remains bound to the system for 1000 years I am sorry, but that is essentially what Hoid wants, not the Radiants (I don't want to write Rosharans, as the people in Jah Keved and elsewhere are also Rosharans) Why do they agree? They get peace. Yet a deal that would give Odium a chance at freedom for more territory would be better for them. I would say that Dalinar is not confident to survive this. He knows that the Radiants will have less need for generalship in the future, yet they will need Bondsmiths. (Tampa Bay Comic Convention - Reading from SA#5) The scheduling is quite indicative of urgency. That said, do you think they are physically present or have they just made a report via Seon? The obvious think that they could have found out is that Rayse is dead. Is Sja-Anat in Lasting Integrity, asking for sanctuary? Why? Why would he forgo securing his home base? I must admit I see no obvious way for Odium to get his loophole and yet the war to end in SA#5. That means a lot must happen in SA#5 and other readings did not show threads being closed, but new threads of action starting. The loophole has been talked about so much, that it not being taken would be disappointing. Hence a lot of new stuff needs to happen. Hence I expect the contest or a decision to find a way to avoid it to come almost immediately. I cannot help fearing an SA#5 whose Sanderlanche starts in chapter 4, figuratively speaking.

He already knows that from Rabionel's daughter and Raboniel herself. Though granted, he may consider Raboniel to have been captured rather than killed. In terms of basic research the question should be clear. If he is still testing this then it looks to me like he wants confirmation that the stuff his people are making is genuine anti-Light. Hasn't that point turned moot by the discovery of how to use vacuum tubes and the three pure tones? They mean that you can covert lights, don't they?

(Sunlit Man)

Journey before destination. Sorry, I could not resist.

Exactly. And we even have a prediction of what will happen then:

You have a point. However, it seems to me that Taravangian is thorough. That is, as the Radiants have reconquered Urithiru he cannot be certain that he is following the procedure correctly. Thus he would test the product as thoroughly as possible before he dares use it in the contest. And that means using it to kill a Fused. Doesn't that require mass production of Raysium? Wouldn't he force the reluctant spren into bonding Radiants thereby?

No, because he can send him out into the Cosmere to conquer some hapless litte world or do this to the population of the lands he still holds, as the Radiants have lost the contest. Killing your own subjects is not breaching the peace.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that it must be based on his acquaintance with Rayse. In fact Taravangian knows him. He may predict that. What really prevents Odium from turning this into a physical fight?

(Reading spoilers) Let's list the possibilties They find the loophole(s) and SA#5 is about closing them -> contest is at the end of the book They find the loophole(s) and conclude that they must avoid having the contest -> I would say then the contest must be very early, for an alternative must be found They fail to handle the loophole(s) for whatever reason -> contest must be early to deal with the consequences Why? Could you elaborate?

True, but not a reason to forgo more conventional weaponry. For all we know, Dalinar's opponent could be a chasmfiend whose children Dalinar killed for their gemhearts.

First of all, a big thanks to @agrabes for reminding me that the contract about the contest can be broken even after the contest. You just fail to follow its provision for your side if you lose. One of the provisions in case the Radiants lose is that Dalinar will become a Fused doing Odium's bidding. The interpretation of this death rattle is that it is about the contest of champions. That is derived from it being a way you could make Dalinar refuse to fight. But Taravangian would rather have him break the contract than lose. Are those goals mutually exclusive? So what if this is from after Dalinar's defeat? I would put it bluntly, no use in sugar coating this, it will stay extremely dark in any case: Can this be from Dalinar's perspective, whom Taravangian wants to make break the contract by ordering him to slaughter infants? Odium is not above torturing people and Taravangian really believes in the necessary evil. Dalinar needs to serve Odium if he loses and wishes to heed the contract. I cannot help myself. It is logical.

Taravangian got El a test subject by extraordinary means. It is obvious that Odium wants to test anti-Investiture weapons. Killing Radiant spren is a huge boon to his side. It is not clear why he is in a hurry that makes every day count, unless of course that test has a connection to the upcoming contest of champions. Yet if he wants to get Dalinar as his slave, annihilating his soul would be counterproductive. If he wants to kill a Herald, there is no point. He already could do that, as Jezrien's fate has shown. If he wants to kill Radiants, why the hurry? He is not going to mass produce Raysium to hand it out to his troops, is he? And why test with anti-Voidlight? So Odium does not know or believe that Dalinar will fight for himself. This is for a bomb and the knife is just coincidence Odium wants to kill or threaten to kill the Stormfather What do you make out of this test?