Fanghur Rahl

That’s personally how I’m inclined to think of it as well; Adonalsium was analogous to an archangel of the God Beyond rather than a God in its own right. It just seems to make more sense to me that way.

Maybe, although it seems awfully convenient for her to have exactly the amount of Stormlight on her to get her into Shadesmar but not enough for anything else, especially seeing as how the implication is that the higher level of Radiant you are the less Stormlight your surges require.

I’d actually completely forgotten about that, I’ll have to listen to that part again. Regardless though, I still don’t think she can be a full Radiant just because of the fact that the realm-hopping side of her power is clearly not at its full potential yet (unless realm-hopping is supposed to be a hugely inexact ‘science’.

If she already has her Plate then why wouldn’t she have summoned it during the Battle of Thaylen Field? Or against the Ghostblood assassins for that matter? If ever there was a time to summon your armor, it’s when you’re being attacked by an army of Voidbringers.

I’m just curious, do we know what level of Radiant Jasnah is yet? We know she isn’t a full Radiant yet since she doesn’t have her armor or she presumably would have summoned it, and also because she clearly isn’t at her full potential when it comes to realm-hopping seeing as it took her over a year to get back from Shadesmar. But seeing how ludicrously overpowered she is in the Battle of Thaylen Field in terms of her Soulcasting even without her armor, it wouldn’t at all surprise me if she’s at least sworn her Fourth Ideal. Are there any WOBs addressing this? I wasn’t able to find any.

I know, I was just being facetious.

I love how Brandon acts like even he doesn’t know the answer to questions like this. It’s entirely up to him, he’s the ‘God Beyond’ after all. He created the Cosmere and all its rules.

Yeah, I gotta say, even though it was clearly done mostly for comic effect, that was a really REALLY stupid move on Vasher’s part. It’s a little like programming a computer to protect against viruses without programming it to know what a virus is.

Well Brandon has explicitly stated that Investiture can’t be created or destroyed, so it must still be there in some sense.

Ah, okay. Yeah I totally misremembered how that scene ended. For some reason I was thinking that it ended with Hoid saying something along the lines of “Allow me to tell you the story of Adonalsium.” or something like that.

Fair enough. But didn't Hoid actually mention Adonalsium to Jasnah when they were travelling together? Or am I misremembering the rest of that conversation that occurred after the part quoted above?

Fair enough, the only problem with that is by that definition polytheists, deists, pantheists and pandeists are all atheists. Historically, the majority of theists DIDN’T believe in a big-G deity.

That’s a really clever theory.

I’m pretty sure her atheism ended the moment she learned about the Shards and Adonalsium; by any meaningful definition, they are at least little-g deities.

I’ve got one. Is/was Adonalsium the only one of its kind? Or is it possible that there are others throughout the greater Cosmere universe?

Like I said, 343 Guilty Spark.

Yeah I know. lol.

I agree. Like I said before, the Shard itself is simply potential, and potential isn’t good or bad, at least in a moral sense. But once taken by a Vessel, the resulting person/being/whatever IS a moral agent in my opinion.

You have to stop thinking of the Vessels and Shards as if they are ultimately separate though. Ati without the Shard is for all intents and purposes a completely different person than Ati with the Shard. Now it’s ultimately just semantics whether you want to say that Ruin was or was not still ‘Ati’, but regardless, it would be fallacious to assert that because Ati without the Shard wasn’t evil, therefore the new being that resulted from Ati acquiring the Shard also wasn’t evil; that simply does not logically follow anymore than it would to say that if a person wasn’t evil prior to brain damage turning them into a murdering sadist, they obviously aren’t afterward either. I realize that we’re largely just arguing semantics here, but the double-standard people usually tend to employ with regards to Shards and their moral status has always been confusing to me.

Ooh, no, I got it! Pattern should have the voice of 343 Guilty Spark from the first Halo game. That would be perfect!

Agreed.

I know, and quite frankly, it doesn’t come off even a tiny bit insofar as how Ruin is portrayed as acting in the books. It’s consistent with the way he speaks and describes himself, but is totally at odd with how he actually behaves. Like I said, what Brandon is describing is essentially Death from Supernatural, whereas Ruin is more akin to what we were expecting the Darkness to be prior to them completely retconning her into God’s sister. That is to say, wanton, senseless destruction.

Honestly, I always imagined Pattern as having more of a robotic voice, personally. Or at the very least an ‘artificial’ sounding voice if that makes sense?

And if entropy really WAS all that Ati-Ruin was, I’d probably agree with you. However, that is blatantly untrue. That describes Death from Supernatural, not the sadistic psychopath that Ati turned into upon acquiring his Shard, taunting people over their dead loved ones, burning people alive, trying to destroy Scadrial a few hundred million years prior to the star going nova. Regardless of what Ruin claimed, it should be obvious to you, me and blind Kremlings that Ruin was far more sinister than merely an embodiment of the natural process of entropy. Ruin was a kid with a magnifying glass and Scadrial was an anthill.

Though knowing Hoid, that could just be because she stole his favourite noodles one time. lol.