Rhapsody

@Matiaswell I don't think she does a lot in the first part. She more or less stumbles upon Denth and the mercenaries only with the help of her childhood friend (who later is killed because she lets herself be captured). she helps Denth actually raising the tension between the court of gods and her homeland while thinking she is doing the opposite because she never questions what she is doing. When she tries helping Vasher in the fight against Denth she manages to get him thrown out the window just before he was able to use his trick, which ends with her getting captured (AGAIN) and him having to draw nightblood (which actually AGAIN played into Denth hands, since he says before in the book that they have to make Vasher draw the sword). She doesn't manage one of her objectives: she doesn't rescue Siri (that does Susebron and by extension Lightsong), she doesn't prevent the war (that's again Susebron with the help of Vasher), she doesn't even manage to stay true to her beliefs as she succumbs to the temptation of breath (that is just as seen from the perspective of her motives in the beginning of course) The reason she so easily learns awakening is also given by Vasher in the book. For one she has a lot of breath, secondly she has part of a returned breath because she is from the royal family and lastly she is able to learn from and observe one of the masters of the craft (the last reason is actually not given in the book but my opinion). On another note she wasn't actually sitting at home reading before going to T'telir, but was instructed on a lot of different subjects surrounding T'telir, its history and culture, politics and other things. With the knowledge and preparation she had she should have been doing better. At least she should have been able to pick up on her actions not helping her cause. But she didn't, which in my opinion reveals her to be a not too capable character in the beginning. Her experiences change her for the better since she learns to remain openminded and starts thinking for once instead of just doing what others tell her. And I can't believe that right now I'm actually arguing on behalf of a character I do not like that much.... that just seems strange.

Karata

No problem. It is a game and everyone makes mistakes. In the end we're all in for the fun of it and it is not a competition

Ok after reading up on nicrosil I think you are right. @Calderis It is possible with one additional spike and one medaillion. I still ... don't like the idea though I can't really express why. Perhaps I think it would be interesting to see him find a possibility to truly become Fullborn. Perhaps there are other possibilities to gain feruchemic powers than hemalurgy that we simply do not know about yet. Either way I think it would be fun to speculate on it Doesn't really answer the question about his new body though.

You are right in that it is possible but we have no mention of any other spike in him beside the one in his eye. Also I think if he simply switched medaillions wouldn't the southern scadrians have realized that sometime? a and b are different in that in b the investiture is keyed to the individual while in a it is not.

if you ever come to Germany come visit us. We can play MTG and talk about Sanderson books you can help me convince my fiance to read SA and it is no problem if your german isn't good as we can all speak english reasonably well.

Ok but all that still doesn't answer the question what happens with the body when a person changes realms. we know that the body 'pops' into investiture since we have a wob on that. But what happens with that investiture is still unclear. Does it a diffuse in the ambient investiture (if something like that exists). Then the body would reform from ambient investiture upon return to the physical realm and Kelsier would only need to be spiked with a connection to the PR to return b go to the spiritual realm to merge with the large junk of investiture there (see wob above) but maintain the connection to the mind of the one the body originally belonged to. Then upon entering the PR again this investiture would be drawn from the SR (which should be easy since at a perpendicularity the realms are close to each other) to reform the body. Then Kelsier would need the connection to a large enough junk of investiture at either his point of entry into the PR or in the SR and possible also a connection to the PR itself. c the investiture travels into the CR with the mind of the traveler. Then when reentering the PR this investiture would form the body. For Kelsier that would mean that he would need a connection to the PR and gather enough investiture in the CR to form a body. In any event this body would be completly his own (scars of the survivor and everything) because as a template for forming the body obviously hos spiritual self filtered through his cognitive perception would be used (like with any healing in the cosmere) what this doesn't explain is how he got his feruchemical powers. His allomantic powers would probably return since they are a part of his spiritual DNA but there would be no reason anything we have seen would give him feruchemical powers.

Hello and welcome to the shard! Be wary of spiked cookies. What character do you like the most from Sandersons books? (can be main and side characters) Have you read any of Sandersons non-cosmere books?

and you still hope to see them improve a couple percent while your looking at them, even though the chances of that are so slim. @Teshyou could play with us though you'd have to come to Germany for that

@CalderisI think you mean the perpendicularity connects the realm as opposed to two locations on the PR through the SR Ok I think I get how it works. But we have diverged from the original thread quite a bit, which posed the question if Kelsier could have formed a body from ambient investiture if someone spiked his CS with a connection to the PR. I think we should return to the topic at hand (and sorry for derailing the thread a bit)

@Calderis as I understood it until now that people exist in all three realm all the time anyway. So I don't think it is a matter of existing in one realm more but more of a matter where most of the investiture comprising the person is. Does that sound right? But you are right since at a perpendicularity all realms are close it doesn't matter where the investiture comes from. But how is it with Elsecalling or the Oathgates? you don't have a shardpool then, that can give you the extra investiture. so how does it work then? @Calderisalso sorry if I didn't understand what you wanted to say. It seemed like the gist of the discussion until then was that the investiture that comprised the body would disperse in ambient investiture and reform from ambient investiture when leaving the CR. Since there was discussion on the possibility of ambient investiture I wanted to offer another aproach.

I do believe they are also different metals. Shardblades are described as silvery while plate is described as slate grey.

I agree here. I really hope Brandin doesn't go this route. Until now all of his antagonists have had their own motivations and I really enjoy that as @Soranaput it there isn't a strict black/white picture. Sometimes it even seems that our heroes are the bad boys in the long run OB spoiler or WoA spoiler just as two examples. HoA spoiler

yes exactly he is sending kandra. not acting himself. it is essentially the same as with Wax, manipulating someone to do something. and kandra are easier to influence because of their blessings and most revere him as god. I also never said he doesn't choose a side. His shard is influencing him it hasn't overridden his personality though that may still happen in the future. What I mean is that you can see the changes in his personality between era1 and era 2. It is not like with Ati that his shards intent is taking over, but you can see the influence Harmony the shard has on Sazed personality. On that note as @Soranapointed out: could you imagine the Sazed from Era 1 doing what Harmony does in SoS? Hurting a good person like Wax by killing his wife in front of his eyes (and by his hand) only to further his own goals? And that is just one of the more blatant examples of how Sazed has changed.

@Calderisisn't that exactly what I said? Matter and investiture are essentially the same. so converting one to the other is simply a matter of finding the right process. The difference between our approaches is simply the question of where that investiture is located. If I have understood what you mean you say the investiture from the body disperses in ambient investiture in the PR while in my opinion it stays in the SR. Additionally I remember a Wob that talks about how most of the investiture is sitting in the SR. (on a side note: could someone explain to me how I can quote wobs here).

The question is if all he needed was the connection to the PR how did Kel become a Fullborn? And second I don't think there's something like ambient investiture that permeates the PR. As I understand it most Investiture resides in the SR. So my take on the whole popping into investiture thing is that: Upon entering a perpendicularity (or elsecalling or any other means of travelling between realms) the body converts into investiture. This should be easy enough to understand since in the cosmere matter, energy and investiture are the same thing in different states (like matter and energy in RL). This investiture resides in the SR but still has a connection to the part of the person that traveled to the CR. As soon as that part leaves the CR reentering the PR the junk of investiture that is still connected to it (because ot once was the body) will reform into the body of said person. This would explain the popping into investiture bit but not need a strong ambient investiture to work. And since location has no meaning in the SR it is irrelevant where you leave the CR. your body will always form from essentially the same bit of investiture. As a result of this theory Kel would not only need a connection to the PR but also a connection to a large enough junk of investiture at either his point of entry into the PR or in the SR. It could also be that he only needs the connection to the investiture since I can't remember a wob that speaks about the connection to a realm.

with the right hack I think she should be able to. She needs to have the right connection and must of course learn about the system first but since each system is powered by the same source (investiture) she could in theory power it through food. She would need the right key/focus/etc of course

Kwan? Rasheks uncle

@Matias sorry to disagree with you agreeing to my opinion =) but I do not in fact think Vivenna was a bad character. She simply didn't hold much apeal for me. I just couldn't find myself drawn into her narative as much as with other characters and her attitude in the first part of the book really irritated me. BUT she actually had a wonderful character develoment. And she still has a lot of growth potential. It's simply my own attitude/perspective/whatever that I can't get her.

@StrikerEZ on that note: you know you're a Sanderfan, when you just wanted to finish this paragraph, then you're going to make breakfast....."what do you mean you're going to bed? It can't be that late...oh"

yes that is what I mean. And because of that he needs to manipulate wax in order to get anything done

Hi I would like to join in if possible.

when everytime somebody asks you to recommend a book your first, second and third reply are Sanderson books and you're offended if the other person is not interested in them.

@MraizeNo. Lucy is blond not redhaired and I can't remember any connection between her and a phoenix, so how do you come to think that?

I would be really sad if he died. He may not be my favourite character, but I think he provides a good contrast to all those broken radiants with their psychological problems. I don't think he will become Odiums Champion. He is simply too good for that and it would feel like such a cliche. I mean how often do you have the seemingly perfect character being tricked by the evil antagonist to do his bidding. most often by threatening their families and loved ones. I sure hope Brandon doesn't go that direction.