Oudeis

...except that wouldn't they know where the mistcloak was gonna be, and not step on it, and not trip? How do you "bad luck" someone who can see and react to the entire future? Also, we don't really know how tapping Luck works. Maybe it can't affect other people like that, maybe it can only make your personal actions work out in your favor; i.e., it's your specific good luck, not your good luck via the bad luck of others.

And one of these days I'll show you my MST3K tattoo.

You are amazing and I love you.

Thou knowst not of Rifftrax? (Hint: Check out their preview for Wizard of Oz). Has thou ever seen a show called Mystery Science Theater 3000? If not, get on youtube this very second, and search for the following: "MST3K Space Mutiny", then ninety minutes later when it's done, come back and give me all the upvotes for introducing this glorious wonder into your life.

I fully acknowledge that this is largely a guess on my part, thought I do think it's a plausible one. To clarify, I think there is a semantic difference between the two. Basically, the way I think of it, it's like the difference between "spider web" and "filament." A spiderweb is filament that has been shaped a certain way... just a pile of filament on the ground would not be a spiderweb. So, basically, I think a person's Spiritual Aspect, their Soul, and their Spiritweb are all the same thing; if you could see it, I think it would be a latticework of energy (I see it as blue, but that's just me) that perhaps includes your connotations, rather than your definitions (the way your cognitive aspect would), and even does connect to the spiritwebs of other things around you, like friends, family, even things like home, or your favorite chair, or a distant homeland. In my head, this energy that your spiritweb is made of is "Innate Investiture." And let me say one last time: I'm just totally spitballing here.

Yes, but my point is, even if we orient the map of Elendel from the map of the Final Empire, that doesn't mean we can trust which direction the Final Empire thought "north" was. Rashek doesn't say it; Mr. Sanderson does, in his annotations for the book. I am terrible at finding quotes, but I'll try to locate them for you (upvotes to anyone who beats me to it). It breaks down like this: Magnetic north on Scadrial is the location of the Well. Rashek did not know this when he decided to move the well itself to be at a low enough latitude to avoid the "midnight sun" phenomenon; he was surprised when doing so dragged magnetic north along with it. All compasses on Scadrial point directly to Kredik Shaw, which The Lord Ruler used as further proof of his own divinity. He never moved Luthadel, and despite what Vin guesses, he didn't actually flatten the mountains. (Well he might have, but we don't have that proven). He moved the Well itself and, in doing so, moved magnetic north, in defiance of plausible physics. Again, I realize at the moment I'm asking you to take my word on this... I will try to find the relevant quotes for you as soon as I can. The annotations, unfortunately, are not so easily searched as the book itself.

This is my question that I posted on the other thread... what makes you think that "spiritweb" and "Innate Investiture" aren't the same thing?

The Rifftrax of the first movie is freakin' hilarious.

I get all that... except that we know Rashek is already lying about the directions, so why do we assume he's only lying in certain ways? We know now that the magnetic north is nowhere near geographic north. At that point, Rashek could have pointed off to the side and said, "hey, everyone, that way is North now" and who exactly was going to tell him no? I understand what you're saying; that the directions supposedly aren't arbitrary, they exist for a reason. I'm saying, we've already got proof that on Scadrial, yeah, they pretty much are arbitrary. Reason may have gone out the window.

One thought: I realize we don't know either way for sure, but recall that Luthadel (specifically Kredik Shaw) was magnetic north; as far as we know, the other directions were arbitrary. Next time anyone reads those books, please look out for any mention of the sun rising or setting in the east/west. For all we know, the sun rises in what Scadrians think of as the "north".

Posted on behalf of my friend, who just gave me this little gem: me: "I'm off to the store. Soda, eggs, and cupcake and waffle mix. Who could ask for anything more?" him: "Kelsier could. He would ask for freedom."

Not certain I'm convinced... but your reasoning is sound, and it's a fascinating theory.

I agree with porridge... I'll try to locate it, but I believe that "Innate Investiture" is something literally every sentient human (and a few non-humans, perhaps) possesses in the cosmere, WoB, not simply "the capacity to perform one of the formal systems of Investiture (magic).

Busker: You are a genius and meticulous. I like you and wish to discuss more things with you. If you are ever bored and/or have time, I would like to request that you click some of the links in my sig and give me your thoughts on some of my favorite pet theories. I suspect I will be fascinated by your insight.

@name_here: Well compiled. It's also worth noting that, unless my math is wrong, "percentages" (particularly the ones expressly given in the books; I believe they discuss a scouting party of 100 and exactly 16 of them fell ill) require a base-ten numerical system, and yet the chapter headings of Alloy of Law strongly imply a base-16 system; this makes a degree of sense, actually, since in the Final Empire they believed there to be 10 metals, so they might have based their math on those symbols, yet they realize by the new world that there are 16 non-God metals. It boggles my mind to consider that someone literally revamped mathematics, but consider the circumstances: Something between 150,000 and 200,000 people survived the apocalypse, and the vast majority of them were illiterate, innumerate skaa. It would be a much smaller deal than I probably consider to change all of mathematics, considering how few people could even count.

Is there a difference between Innate Investiture, and Spiritwebs?

This seems pretty obvious, so I'm sure it's been pointed out before and I'm simply behind the curve. The Returned eat Breath. Nightblood eats Breath. These seem to be remarkably similar. It takes a Returned an entire week to devour a single Breath... I wonder, if anyone were to check, might it be possible that some of that black smoke stuff is emitted by the Returned? Just very, very slowly, like a few molecules a second? I wonder... so Type II and Type III Awakened objects, the Lifeless and ... um, Awakened things like ropes, do not consume Breath, they merely use it. It provides rigidity, motion, and the capacity to follow a single, unchanging Command. What the other Types have... is sentience. So... the ability to change your mind, to think for yourself, this appears to be a trait that doesn't simply use Breath, but consumes it... Sidebar, possibly worthy of it's own thread in either Cosmere theories or Stormlight Archives... is it Innate Investiture that Shardblades attack? Is there a difference between Innate Investiture and Spiritweb?

Update: When stabbed through the leg, Lightsong does not heal any faster than a human. Unless we now think that the fact of his being Returned actually inhibits regeneration, it seems evident that Breath does nothing specific to heal you.

Yes, we clearly need a retronym here.

I agree, with the addendum that, however much it might end up looking like a "typical dragon," I have faith that Mr. Sanderson's dragons will be novel, unique, and fascinating in a way that blows my mind.

Busker: That... is very, very clever and insightful of you to notice what you have noticed. And I've got nothing else to add that others haven't already mentioned. My one thing I suppose... I think it's been WoB'ed that the coastline of Elendel is a place in the actual Final Empire, though all we know about the Final Empire's climes, really, is that it used to be magnetic north but far, far removed from true North... far enough to not experience abnormal day/night cycles. Luthadel supposedly rarely saw snow, but again, World of Ash, weather was freaky. Dunno if that changes anyone's mind about temperate/what-have-you.

Can either Aura Reconition or Life Sense (two powers granted by the Heightenings of Breath) allow an Awakener to theoretically sense other forms of Investiture, the way allomantic bronze can?

I've always gotten the sense that Aura Recognition basically came down to a mix of, your enhanced ability to distinguish color tones, and an instinctive knowledge of how much a BioChromatic aura affects color. In the books, it's usually shown as a function of sight; your "life sense" lets you know someone with a strong Aura is nearby/looking at you, but the first time Vivenna sees Vasher, she doesn't recognize the exact amount of Breath he has until she looks at him. Can you recognize auras in the dark? Could you tell the difference between a normal Scadrian, a Misting, and a Mistborn? A Ferring? A hemalurgist? Nahel bonds? Spren, themselves? An Elantri-... okay maybe some of them are no-brainers...

It really just sounds so much super-easier to just buy or coerce the Breath out of someone...

Yes. =D Good idea.