Oudeis

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across so harshly. I sometimes let my pursuit of a joke cloud my better judgement.

Ashe himself is over two centuries old, so old he's forgotten much of his own past. He's been through how many masters. Yet he's still surprised at the lack of Seons in Kae, despite the fact that no one is making any more. Surely it is a very uncommon occurence for a Seon to die under any circumstance. I shouldn't think they knew about Raoden; Iadon was very careful to try to keep the knowledge from anyone but a few priests who NEEDED to know. I suspect the other Seons simply believed what everyone else did; that Raoden had died as was claimed. And again... how is that not worthy of note? "Ashe, contact Ien, see what he says." "Ien who?" "...Ien the Seon you've been talking to for months." "There's no such person as Ien. YOU SPEAK MADNESS, WOMAN." Clue...

Marry me. I wonder if the Chasm is something that happened to the physical body of Opelon when someone did something to it's cognitive aspect (i.e. Shadesmar itself). If someone set off the cognitive equivalent of a nuclear bomb in Shadesmar, what effect would it have on the physical world? Could THIS be by it's so hard to travel via Shadesmar from Sel? Because the landscape there is literally damaged by something powerful enough to hurt the environment itself, something so big it actually affected the physical land? (p.s. if I ever have the chance to ask Mr. Sanderson a question, it might well be, "Did the Reod on Sel happen concurrently with any big events on any other Shardworld, currently-known or otherwise?) Alternate theory: I disagree with the notion that it was Odium. It just feels wrong to me. However, there's a quote somewhere about how Odium is Invested in Roshar, that leaving would cause him to rip out his power. What if he did Invest in Sel to destroy Devotion and Dominion? What if him "ripping out" his Investiture has something to do with the earthquake? What if Odium didn't cause the earthquake just for grins and giggles, but it's a side effect of some larger thing he DID intend to do? Lastly, and this gets into Stormlight Archives, so I'll throw it behind a spoiler just in case. FINAL RANDOM THOUGHT. If someone ever closes the Chasm, would the Reod happen again until an Elantran erased that extra line from Kae? EDIT: to fix typo.

Re-reading Elantris for the... I don't knowth time. I'm in chapter 2, where Sarene and Ashe are trying to figure out what happened to Raoden, if he really died as they claim of the shaking cough. King Eventeo mentions that Sarene has spoken to Raoden via Seon several times. Presumably, via Ashe and Ien. Do we know how this works? Ashe comments as one point, "Your father would like to speak to you," presumably meaning that the king's Seon has contacted Ashe to let him know "i want to open the channel now". Can any two Seons talk to each other across any distance this way? Regardless, there's one person they must know would have been near Raoden, someone that Ashe especially would think about. Ien. And to ask him, apparently, all Ashe would have to do would be to think about it. As far as he's concerned, what must've happened is this: Raoden died, and Ien was passed on to someone else. There's every chance Ien was present for Raoden's death, and almost no chance that he was farther away than a few hundred feet. Even if he's now bonded to someone else, surely Ien would still be a good person to ask "what happened". And if Sarene and Raoden have spoken via Seon that frequently, surely by whatever mechanism Seons can use to communicate, Ashe would be able to contact Ien. Even if you suggest that you can only speak through Seons, and they can't talk to each other (something I don't buy, as Ashe himself told Sarene, "your dad's on the line"), surely they could have pinged Ien's 'number' and told the human, "Hey, whoever you are, can we come to your physical location and talk to your new Seon?" EVEN IF they really DO have to somehow know who Ien is bonded to to contact him, surely that's something someone in court would know, and Sarene would be able to come up with SOME justification for it (Ashe got to know Ien rather well, and was hoping to greet him in person). What would have ACTUALLY happened, then, would have been that Ashe would have felt whatever it is you feel when you try to reach a Shaod-ed Seon. Perhaps that's a unique enough experience that Ashe would instantly realize it meant the Shaod, and thus the mystery of Raoden would be solved. What else could it feel like? Now we get into pure speculation on my part. Off the top of my head, if Ashe reached out to Ien and felt... whatever he would have felt, the only other thing I can think of it might have been similar to is death. So, if Ashe reached out and felt whatever, if he DIDN'T start to at least suspect Elantraining, it's certiainly plausible that he'd suspect Ien's death. The death of a functionally immortal globe of light would surely raise even more questions.

Hrm... I see all of this as plausible, if she only got her powers later, rather than earlier. If she already had her powers, she'd be an Epic. People don't touch Epics. Period. She would have nothing to fear from anyone other than another Epic. Even then, just like herself, not every Epic has a directly offensive power. A ton of Epics would be no more equipped than herself to offer any form of threat. Even if not offensive, she's incredibly powerful, and enormously useful. Even if no other Epic has managed to run an entire city the way Steelheart did, surely the norm is a "king of the hill" however destitute each individual hill is, able to provide for his own direct 'court'. It might not be a place with a great public school system where you'd want to raise you kids, but she personally would be as high up in any hierarchy as she was with Steelheart. Granted, she could have gotten some psychopath who enslaved her, abused her, and tortured her; that's certainly plausible in this world, but not I think likely enough to simply assume it to be the case. Your scenario is, I think, FAR more likely if she came to her powers much later. She would have been raised in a terrible land of torture and war; David's orphaned childhood was bad enough in a place that was functionally this world's Zanadu. There's no reason not to assume Megan would be traumatized. In a lot of ways, that can provide some interesting tension in the next book. To us humans, it seems logical that you'd want to forgo using your power and stop being a psychopath, because to us it's a no-brainer that psychopath is bad. But if she's really as damaged as you suggest, psychopathy might be the only thing keeping her sane (if you follow that). The ability to not care, the arrogance of her power, might be the armor that keeps her helpless terror at bay. Sorta begging the question... did Megan disagree with the "kill Steelheart" plan because she was an Epic working for him? Or was she telling the truth? As she regained her humanity, as she lost the ability to keep her own pain at a distance, did she see someone like David, an orphan, who nevertheless grew up in this paradise Steelheart made and was as close to a functioning, undamaged adult that this world can have, and realize she'd do anything to protect this Newcago which was so unlike the hell of the rest of the FSA? Maybe Firefight wasn't the one objecting to the plan. Maybe it was Megan.

I'm actually not positive that when he charges things, like the penlight or those huge batteries, those aren't also considered gifting. Does anything say that gifting HAS to be "to a human"? It could be that his "power" is to build up enormous quantities of electric energy, and that he can "gift" this energy to a battery as easily as to a human. For evidence, Prof said that gifters have the power to take their gifts back whenever they want. When Conflux does, it's not just back from the people he gave the power to; he drains every battery, every power plant, everything, all at once.

That... actually fits pretty well with what we know of Lerasium, how it can re-write your sDNA but has a default option.

So, unlike normal hemallurgy, a lerasium-alloy spike would not kill the donor? Cuz if it leaves him his power but kills him anyway, that would not technically help much.

Aaaaaaaaaah, my apologies then. I misunderstood.

Would you? It's been established that even though steellines are a visual effect, you're still aware of the ones behind you, or if you close your eyes. Perhaps even though there IS a visible electrum shadow, you always know where it is and what it's doing, even if it's behind you. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm hypothesizing.

So you think that one dude had a subconscious desire to be weak to 37-year-olds? EDIT for revelation: Actually, maybe his own father died of a heart attack at the age of 37, so before he became immortal he was deathly afraid of having the same thing happen to him. Does that pass the smell test?

I could be mistaken, but we seem to be miscommunicating. I'm going to take this opportunity to define the phrase "meta-Epic" to ensure we're all on the same page. Meta-Epic means an Epic specifically designed to affect (in all of these cases, defeat in combat) other Epics. I have no problem with someone wanting to be powerful; my Epic idea was quite powerful himself, in a manner that, yes, would be useful in combat, he's just not built for the express purpose of taking down Epics. I'm simply surprised at how many people I see whose powers aren't simply powerful, they're clearly made with the idea in mind of defeating not an army or an earthquake but exclusively other Epics.

My personal theory is that Hoid doesn't know exactly what he's doing. Presumably, it has something to do with Adonalsium. Not every Shard has Splinters. I think he's gathering whatever he can, the "bodies," Splinters if he can find them, even the Shardpools, maybe. I think he has a purpose, but maybe not the whole plan. He wants to gather them all, see how he can get them to interact, maybe start some form of trial-run for whatever his ultimate plan for all the Shards is.

I hadn't thought of Prof being recognized... but it was shown a few times that he personally hates Steelheart. So, they certainly SEEM to have some history. But you're right, if he were simply Digzone, Steelheart would recognize him. (Maybe Steelheart did, and just assumed it was Digzone with a new name?)

There seem to be an awful lot of meta-epics on this thread...

Sorry, I have to disagree. It seems the only coincidence is "David picks up on the tensors quickly." I don't see how that's a bigger coincidence than can be simply accepted, and I don't see why he'd be any faster for stealing the power than being gifted it. He's spent ten years obsessed with Epics and the Reckoners. Meeting a man he knows is in charge of one cell of the Reckoners, it's not a huge leap that it makes him think of the man who he knows leads the Reckoners as a whole, and makes the connection.

If a Seeker were wearing a headband of aluminum, could she sense Bronzepulses? If a Coinshot were wearing a headband of aluminum, and then burned steel, would he put off Bronzepulses?

I have no idea what this means. Also I'm kidding. In all likelihood we'd never get close enough to each other to interact.

I buy all of that, but none of it is evidence that the mist could be condensed into Well-liquid, or that if you had a cup of Well-liquid anywhere but at that location it would still generate lerasium. I have blood, bones, and muscles. These are all parts of my body. Doesn't mean they're interchangeable. We have nothing to suggest that the three are all interchangeable, and assuming so is purest speculation. I could easily suggest that Ham is a world-hopper; we've absolutely no evidence to disprove my theory. Or if you brought a stormlight-infused garnet to Sel its light would slay every Elantrian it shined upon. You can't prove to me that it wouldn't.

Oh. In that case, lasers. All of them. A solid wall of laser fire.

Was this a response to mine? It linked to lerasium's page on the coppermind, which did not make any reference to whether or not the mist and the liquid of the Well were the same substance. If they were the same substance, why are they at three different states at constant temperature and pressure? Even if "normal Scadrian atmospheric conditions" were, by some coincidence, lerasium's triple-point, they'd all three be in a constant state of flux (and since, presumably, the inside of Scadrians themselves is warmer than the outside, it'd be impossible to ingest a bead as it would melt/sublime the instant it reached your mouth. And if anyone could burn it in mist form, almost no one in Scadrian history has ever spent their whole life without taking one single breath of mist, so it would be a planet of poweful Mistborns.) If you still insist that they are the same thing and that for the sake of the sheer convenience of this theory Preservation made it so that it's at all three states at the same temperature/pressure, that lends credence to my own conjecture that simply changing the pressure/temperature would be insufficient to freeze mist into lerasium.

Full-on autistic seems highly unlikely, as my understanding is that this is a very debilitating condition. I do buy the theory that he could have a mild, high-functioning form (something on the lines of Aspergers). Definitely not an epic, though.

Pantheon besties!

I would suspect that if you COULD condense Scadrian mist into the liquid at the Well, it would have to be some process a lot more specific and complicated than turning water vapor into water. I also suspect not; I think the mist is fundamentally a different thing from the liquid, which is fundamentally not lerasium.

Not sure Odium can take Honor; I was under the impression that we know Honor has been Splintered? I feel like Honor would need to be re-formed before it could be melded with Odium, and he's not likely to sit back and allow that. Presumably, he has some agency to interfere with the process. Also, I agree with you that only certain Intents would have the capacity to force their Shard upon Odium. Preservation presumably is incapable of killing even himself (remember, he needed Vin to take up the power, a creature of Ruin and Preservation, someone who could kill to save). I could see Cultivation being able to "plant the seed" of its own Intent (if nothing else, it's at least not something directly opposed to the idea of Cultivation). I feel like Endowment is our best current bet, though Harmony might appreciate the idea of adding balance to Odium's extremity, and Sazed not only has experience melding Shards, but there's at least a chance that Harmony is more powerful than the other Shards, meaning it would balance out even more of Odium's Intent. Upvote for finding the quote! You're awesome. Dominion was Skai. Devotion was Aona. Honor was Tanavast. In the case of Skai and Aona, we know that they died, and their Shards were Splintered. We're not sure of the order of events or how they affected each other. While we've never seen anyone give up a full Shard, we've only five cases of a Shardbearer dying, and only a really good look at two of those (Leras and Ati), so our knowledge of the process is hardly exhaustive. Also, there's no reason to assume the Shattering of Adonalsium is comparable to the Splintering of a Shard.