Oudeis

I've said this a few times now, but let me devote an entire post to it this time. Perhaps this will clear up some miscommunication. I am not saying that every "modern" Shardblade is utterly different from every "classic" Shardblade. I agree with you, that however confusing the time since the prologue, it's unlikely that mankind has actually replaced them all. My theory is this. One specific Blade out of the, how many, dozen or more that we see in the book, could be a "hidden in plain sight" other Blade. I think that's a very Sanderson thing to do. I realize there's no neon sign saying "THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL BLADE," but I still think the idea holds water that someone could have a Blade, one they think is normal because they have no reason to suspect it's different.

Upvote to Moogle for saying... everything I was about to say, and then some. Much more coherently than I'd prolly be capable of.

This is the third thread in three days were I've heard that put forth as an argument. I hadn't noticed before now anyone acting as though the rules of the forum are, "you're not allowed to post anything unless it's proven to be 100% true." It's a theory. I know it's not totally guaranteed, and I'm not trying to "convert" anyone, I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. I am more than pleased to see people thinking enough about theories to find evidence that might support them, or support opposing theories, but just recently I've noticed a lot of people who seem to expect everyone to keep quiet unless their ideas are beyond reproach. I don't know, maybe it's a matter of missed connotations, I just feel like it's not that hard to show some basic courtesy and say, "While I'm not sold, that's an interesting theory and it's certain very possible, though I have a few thoughts on things that don't quite add up." Instead of just telling me that my "assumptions" don't have a "solid evidentiary basis". That was needlessly confrontational, not to mention false.

Duh..... wah???? They don't have a strong evidentiary basis? For realz? First, she's an innate soulcaster. She's a Surgebinder. I'll grant you we have Szeth as evidence that there is a way to Surgebind without the Nahel bond, but I still think that while it's less than absolute proof, it's still at least "strong evidence". As for the second, Meg found a quote above which actually refutes a different of my points. So, Jasnah does recognize the cryptics, she names them spren, and she knows enough about them to explain that they are connected to innate soulcasting. In my opinion, that's a strong evidentiary basis. But what do I know, I watch Mythbusters, I think a single point of data is enough to establish a trend, and I've never heard of a control group.

This is something I want to hear a LOT more about. It's something a few kids were throwing around, so clearly not reliable sources, but then when Kaladin asked his father, a presumably educated man, his reply was, "oh that only happens sometimes." What? I've got nothing, I need more. I feel like if shardblades tended to cause darkeyes to literally have glowing eyes, that's something his father wouldn't have brushed off as a vague curiosity, like how you or I might talk about someone being double-jointed.

Though Nohadon refers to spren and the nahel bond in Dalinar's vision, and Tanavast did say that he personally witnessed many of the events. So there were apparently spren sentient enough to "choose" humans before Honor was Splintered. I realize there are a few gaps in my reasoning; I think you've got some good points, it's just something else to consider.

I'm saying we've seen too little of Honorblades to be sure they're different from Szeth's. We've never see one used, and we've barely seen one summoned. And I'm suggesting that it is possible (and very Sanderson-like) to hide something big and important in plain sight. I'm saying there have been a LOT of instances of the "modern" Shardblade, and it's possible one is different, but looks like any other Blade because no one knows enough to think it's special. I'm not saying this is definitely proven true, I'm saying it's possible, given our limited information. And I'd like to point out that you aren't rebutting a single other point I've made. Why are there coincidences connecting Szeth, and his Blade, to a specific Herald if his blade is neither an Honorblade, nor one of the Blades of the Radiants (which, as you claim, have to be normal old "modern" Shardblades)? You seem to be putting the onus of proof on me, and I don't accept it. You've proven that this theory isn't fact, but you haven't disproven it. It remains plausible.

Thank you, Meg, for the quotes. I found them in bed last night and was gonna post them, but now there's no need. And I must've misremembered the Jasnah quote; I guess she did recognize them. Slight hole in my theory, but since he doesn't Surgebind a ton, I wonder if the bond might be so stunted that he hasn't yet met his spren. Someone brought up the "KR wouldn't steal stormlight from each other" which is a great point (upvote) I had not thought of, but I agree with the people who have said that it was due to Dalinar's instinctive use; that a trained Radiant would know how to control where he drew stormlight from. Additional information: Also from Chapter 54, Dalinar's devotary is the Order of Talenelat, presumably named after Talenel'Elin, Stonesinew. We know that one Order is called Stoneward, possibly Taln's, the ones associated with topaz and metal. It's not a huge stretch to think that the "Callings" of the devotaries correspond to the spren orders attract; if devout Dalinar is acting however Stoneward Radiants are supposed to act, the name of their order suggests a group capable of increasing their physical strength.

That... actually makes all the sense in the world.

Every clue you've pointed out ascribes convoluted theories to otherwise simple explanations. David is never once shown using a power he wasn't expressly gifted, and if he does instinctively take powers there are many occasions where he would have done so throughout the book that he didn't. You claim that the reason he didn't trigger the Dowser is that his instinctive control is so god-like, he can perform an impossible illusion of something he's never seen before and that he cannot currently see, all without even knowing he's doing it, when it takes him hours to make the Tensors do anything at all. Also, the Tensors show us that you can FEEL it when you actively use a power; where was the sensation of crafting an illusion? But I do think you're right about a mild form of autism. It makes sense that no one survives the Foundry as a fully-functional member of society.

I honestly don't know. For all we know there's something unique about Oathbringer, or Sunraiser, or the Blade born by the man that Kaladin killed, that simply isn't obvious. It's a stretch, but not a huge one. In my opinion, it's no bigger than ignoring all the connections between Szeth and Jezrien, or the fact that the Radiants DID have glowing eyes, so maybe there is some fundamental difference between their Blades and those of modern times. It's been four millenia; much of Roshar's history is inaccurate myth and legend. Frankly, I think it's not as wildly impossible as you might think that out of the two flashbacks we've seen to the distant past that include Shardblades, that one of them might be something fundamentally different from modern ones.

Szeth said his Windrunning wouldn't work if he wore Shardplate, but we've seen Knights Radiant use various powers (The starfalling trick, and what the lady called Regrowth) while wearing Plate, so I'm assuming there are forms of Surgebinding you can do while enPlated. When the Chasmfiend attacked Elhokar, Dalinar caught the falling claw. From Adolin's perspective, it shouldn't have been possible, even in Shardplate. Also, Dalinar's Plate almost seemed to glow. Later (can someone help me find the quote? It comes up either in Adolin's investigation, or when Sadeas makes his announcement) it's revealed that several of the gemstones from Elhokar's armor are cracked. Elhokar admits it wasn't him. The in-world assumption is that bad gems were deliberately placed there in the world's worst assassination attempt. I have an alternate theory. First, I think that from the attitudes of people who hear about the gemstones, they do crack sometimes under the stress of holding up the Plate. I think that if they lack sufficient stormlight to power the armor, they are more likely to crack. So. Envision this scenario, and tell me if it holds water. (To be clear, I'm not saying that 'for sure this happened', and I'm not promising to prove that it the truth, just that nothing from the book disproves it.) Dalinar catches the claw. Whichever Order of KR he is has a power to increase physical strength even more than Plate. Like Kaladin did when he was hurt by the highstorm, he instinctively draws in the stormlight from the closest gems not powering his own armor; Elhokar's gems. His Surgebinding causes his armor to glow slightly. The gems, now drained of power, crack as they try to sustain the strength of Elhokar's armor (I realize he doesn't do anything that seems strenuous after this point, but just walking in Plate requires the strength granted by Plate). Afterwards, it looks to those in-world like they were damaged deliberately, because no one has seen something like what Dalinar did before, like how everyone for a while assumes that Gaz just keeps giving Kaladin dun spheres. And that's it, that's my theory. Maybe I'm not the first to posit it, maybe there's an obvious rebuttal that proves me wrong which I'm not thinking of. Maybe I should stop posting at 1am. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME. Also, I know Dalinar doesn't see any spren, but Jasnah doesn't seem to recognize the truthspren when Shallan shows them to her, so we've proof that you don't have to see your spren to have a Nahel bond.

And at the end, Talanel's blade is just one big spike. Maybe Szeth's Blade, small though it is, is still pretty. Also, long ago Plate was covered in glyphs, and they aren't any longer. In fact, the Knight Radiant from Dalinar's vision had Plate that was covered in glyphs during battle that faded away when he didn't need them anymore. Maybe Honorblades are only covered in glyphs under certain circumstances. I don't think we have conclusive evidence that Szeth is carring Jezrien's Honorblade, but there is an awful lot of circumstantial evidence. He's got the powers of a Windrunner without the Nahel bond. We know his Blade has at least one huge difference from "modern" ones. Talanel's eyes are dark brown. Tanat's stone is topaz, which is a dark colored stone. I realize that's a stretch; Topaz is dark, but it is NOT dark brown. However, the specific line about Szeth's eyes changing: "The moment he summoned his Blade, his eyes would turn from dark green to pale - almost glowing - sapphire, a unique effect of his particular weapon." Sapphire. The gem associated with Jezrien and the Windrunners. Aaaaaand... kay, I've found some evidence that I'm mistaken. In chapter 19, Dalinar's flashback to talking with the Knights Radiant, the woman's eyes glow tan (which gem is tan? Topaz? Heliodor? That is the essense of Flesh and she does heal Taffa, so perhaps?), though they do so without her Blade being summoned. The male's eyes are "such bright blue, they were almost white", though as he notes this glow, he says they're leaking Stormlight. Sapphire? Diamond? Zircon? Dunno. So. The Knights Radiant had eyes that glow, whether or not they had Shardblades out. I think there was more to Jezrien and his Heraldness than his Honorblade (as evidenced by the fact that we've seen several Heralds, meaning they've somehow lived for four and a half millenia without the Blades). Nevertheless, it DID have some association with him. I realize it's hardly conclusive, but I maintain that the theory is viable that someone bearing Jezrien's Honorblade might, when it's summoned, possess some of the traits of that Herald (which, like glowing eyes, might be something they shared with Radiants.)

Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch. A whole lot of things could be meant by Steelheart. It's a relatively generic term.

Oh, c'mon, none of the characters in the book were a 5th-grade science teacher who would ABSOLUTELY have learned a lot about it or anything...

Oh, whoops. Thanks.

On the one hand, I agree with you that stopping a bullet without your jacket would raise questions. On the other hand, Prof isn't psychotic when he isn't using his power. And presumably, he'd be more comfortable answering difficult questions and taking someone into his confidence than losing a trusted ally, one of very few in his war.

I'm sure I heard somewhere (here it is) that we know for a fact that the Divine Breaths are Slivers (EDIT: I goofed, they are Splinters. WELL MAYBE IF BRANDON DIDN'T START SO MANY WORDS WITH S'S), which prolly makes them different from the gas body... but who knows, mebbe it can be both.

This was my original point, and I agree with you. Alternatively, it's possible he DID gift the power to the gloves, but that the lights and things were all showmanship. It's possible that any scrap of the glove would work as well. He could "gift" the power to a brick, then any human carrying the brick could use it. If the brick shattered, you could pick up a chunk and still use it. Just an idea; personally, I still think the devices were ALL just smoke-and-mirror, and that he really did just directly hand over the powers.

1. Curveball. 2. I think you're saying that his is a power that cannot obviously BE leveled up, and I'm going to respond accordingly. If I've misunderstood you, I apologize. I will admit your question makes me less certain of my theory, since now I sort of have to wrap it around this guy, it doesn't fit as nicely as I had hoped. If this guy had been stronger, maybe he would have been able to conjure infinite ammo for rifles, maybe grenade launchers. Maybe he could have just called darts out of mid-air to throw. Maybe he could have powered the gauss gun forever. Or, perhaps this was a silly secondary power. Maybe if he'd had more of this x-factor, he would have gotten a suite of other powers, and his infinite handgun ammo would have been nothing more than a footnote.

Gemhearts are found in Greatshells. Chasmfiends are only one kind of Greatshell. Greatshells are found in the Shattered Plains, Aimia, and the sea to the north; basically the coasts of Roshar. I haven't heard anything about Odium being "to the east". There's one reference (with a notation saying that the translation is questionable) which mentions "to the west, in the place closest to Honor". I personally suspect that this is a red herring, which he's done in other books.

Whether or not a Blade is in your hand, it's still yours. In fact, the case could be made that it's MORE a part of you when it hides behind your heartbeats. My theory is that the power to Surgebind comes from the same place that lets you summon your Blade when it's gone. Also, I don't understand one thing you said. Why do you think Szeth is weaker than a Knight Radiant?

If so, why is Edmund so normal? By what you're saying, he's using his power actively 24/7, whether asleep or awake.

Szeth uses the powers of a Windrunner without a Nahel bond. (There's a WoB quote somewhere that makes it explicit that Szeth is getting his powers from another source). Jezrien is the Herald associated with the Windrunners. It's not a stretch to think that this Shardblade, which changes eye color in a way not often seen with Blades, might bestow the power of the Order that Jezrien is associated with. Hence, Jezrien's Honorblade.

Gemhearts = body of Tanavast is part of the theories I discuss in this thread. Dunno if there's anything there you feel like commenting on.