Oudeis

Are we so certain this is how it will work? Maybe not everyone can use mechallomancy; maybe it's just a mechanical way to amp a Misting's power up to Northern levels. Regardless, the fact remains that the North needs only one strike force to gather enough information to start making their own mechallomancy, and Wayne could do that in his sleep without Allomancy.

Yes... but Alendi-style allomancers. A fraction of the power of allomancers descended from the lerasium Mistborn. Lestibournes' descendants in particular should be rather powerful.

I'm not so sure... the only four "base human traits" we know of that can be stolen are physical strength, senses, emotional stability, and mental clarity. I think we all agree that physical strength functions like low-level allomantic pewter. Yet emotional stability and mental clarity have no allomantic counterparts. Mental clarity seems a bit like feruchemical zinc, though one of the few advantages I think we ever see spelled out is when TenSoon speaks of his good memory, which would be more like feruchemical copper, though that isn't even a little how feruchemical copper actually works. Still, you have a point. We know very little about hemalurgic tin, and I think I was accidentally basing what I did know on the RPG, which is obviously non-canonical. Perhaps a question I'll ask Mr. Sanderson, unless someone out there knows the answer already? Interesting ideas... I'm not sure I personally believe all of them, but they are all quite viable. It is worth noting that the racial traits are more... spectacular on Roshar than they tend to be on other worlds. A thought on Scadrial...

Except that all it takes is one super-soldier task force to sneak to the other side and steal plans. It'd be a lot harder to sneak up north and steal yourself some allomancy... unless you use hemalurgy, of course. BTW, I don't know a lot of military history. based on what do you say that superior weaponry overcomes genetically enhanced super-troops?

I'm not sure Steel and Iron would have been that strong pre-Rashek. The implication was that all Mistings were very, very weak back then. A tineye wouldn't have metaphysical sight, he'd just find it odd that other people can't seem to concentrate and sense things better the way he can. A thug wouldn't suddenly be able to leap seven feet, he might just get a super-charged adrenaline rush when he feels threatened. As for steel and tin, those might be the weirdest. I'm not sure what would prompt you to focus on a spoon, but it might rattle and slowly start inching its way across the table at you.

Interesting... if so, would those with a lot of Breath see farther and be more likely to Return? Would Drabs not have the option of Returning?

Interesting that you bring up the Blessings. At first blush, they might seem mere hemalurgy; the Blessing of Potency simply grants you the strength inside; sentience is almost a side-effect. However, with only two spikes, the Blessing of Awareness should only grant two enhanced senses, yet it seems to enhance them all. Why the discrepancy? Is this a particular trait of the Kandra, that hemalurgy affects them slightly differently? Is it a side-effect of the sentience-granting process? Is it due to the fact that they aren't simply "spiked", but actual hemalurgic creations, an oft-overlooked subset of the hemalurgic system? This is all very interesting and I hope I remember to read it again and respond sometime tomorrow when I have had a great deal more sleep.

I think mechallomancy is all we really need to think about. If Rashek truly wished to leave a pure genetic sample, he might well have left full Feruchemists down south, and hemalurgy isn't genetic at all; anyone with knowledge can use it. The only art they would lack at the southern pole would be allomancy, as none of their ancestors ever ingested lerasium, so they'd have only the barest amount like Alendi did. Does anyone have the original quote to hand? Does he say that all three metallic arts are accessed mechanically, or just allomancy?

Was that in the annotation? Thank you! Although... doesn't this raise some interesting conundra? Blushweaver's actions made it easier for those trying to start the Manywar, to start the Manywar. Yet Lightweaver's destiny was expressly to stop the Manywar. Was Endowment hedging her bets? Am I mistaken in my initial assumption that the destiny is granted by Endowment? Does this Shard simply allow people to fulfill whichever desires they wish, even if they sometimes conflict? The interaction between Blushweaver's destiny and Lightsong's seems... interesting. Was the ultimate plan between them, "We don't want a Manywar, but if we have to have one, we want Hallandren to win"?

Lightsong was sent back for the express purpose of healing Susebron, thus averting the Second Manywar. When Stennimar died, he was shown a vision of what the world would look like and how he could be sent back to change it, and he agreed to the terms. He made it to the moment, made the decision, and gave up his life a second time to save the world. From the annotations, his friend (I think her name was Calmseer?) also fulfilled her destiny; she was given the option to Return, and eventually save the life of her own daughter, which she did. (I might be getting details wrong, I'll look up the annotations). The point is, Endowment Returns the Returned for a purpose. We know Lightsong fulfilled his, we know Calmseer fulfilled hers. Both of theirs was to give up their Divine Breath to heal someone. What about the other Returned? Is their destiny always to give up their Divine Breath and heal someone? Is it sometimes to accomplish other things? Lightsong's POV indicated that there was a choice involved, at least at the moment of Returning. Lightsong was shown the future and he decided yes, I will go back and change things. Was he given a second choice? Could he have failed to sacrifice his life for Susebron? Could he have made some mistake in the intervening years and messed up the future? Could he have fallen down a flight of stairs one day and broken his neck by accident? Was that Shashara's destiny? Forge Nightblood, learn Commands, advance the science of Awakening, then be slain by Vasher? Was that what Endowment wanted from her? Or did she go off-script and change things? Did Vasher do wrong by stopping her in her mission? Was Vasher's whole point in Returning to be the backup, to kill her if things went wrong and she broke her leash? If she wasn't fulfilling her destiny, what was her destiny? What had Endowment planned for the Five Scholars, and how did it go so wrong? Or was everything that happened Endowment's plan all along?

This is what I'm saying. Obviously, anything "magical" in the cosmere is Investiture. These are all examples of things that don't fit what we know of "Investiture" on Roshar, yet seem to be "magical" in nature. So... are these all connected? Are some of them connected? Are some of them Surges or Voidbringing or Old Magic? What's up with these all?

Did Shashara fulfill the destiny given her by Endowment as a Returned?

The Shin seem to have a single Blade, one that they consistently send out of their own country. Almost no Shin would know anything about Blades. I'm sure Szeth would know more than most, but the long-term affects aren't germane to him. By the time he held the blade, he was Truthless. No one was going to waste time spending long evenings debating the esoterica of Shardlore, by then it would likely have been, "Take this, here's what you need to know, now get out." Your argument seems to be predicated on a few flimsy bases. First, you assume that Szeth would know about the long-term effects of a shard-severed limb, which I think is a weak and unsupported argument. Second, since Szeth mentions them in passing and says nothing about the the state such a limb will be in long-term, you seem to assume that his silence proves that limbs remain healthy, just non-functional. Because, apparently, he would have to have told us that in the exposition if limbs rotted, so his silence proves that they don't. I agree with you that we don't know enough to make a determination; a long time ago, you seemed to be of the firm opinion that any reasonably intelligent person would agree that you're right and I'm wrong. If we both agree now that the text doesn't prove, or really even support, either argument, well then we're in agreement. If you still think the text proves you right, then I heartily disagree.

We've seen examples of extraordinary abilities on Roshar that don't, that I can see, have any obvious connection to Investiture. They appear to be racial traits. Any thoughts? Aimians have reverse shadows (though there's talk of Jasnah's shadow doing something similar) and can adjust the pigmentation of their own skin at will. Alethi men (possibly just light-eyes) experience the Thrill. Shallan's Memory. (I add this one because though we've no evidence of it being racial, it is another example of seeming "magic" that has nothing to do with what we know of Roshan Investiture) And Parshen, of course, can metamorphose during Highstorms (though the emphasis on stormlight and spren make it seem that it might, in fact, be a system of Investiture).

I would suspect that the hemalurgic spike would work on a parshman; not so sure about the spren/kandra. We've heard that hemalurgy is comerversal, so presumably it would work with anything. The parshmen, on the other hand, seem to have a specific, biological mechanism built in to themselves that allows for the bonding of the spren. We have no way to know if spren could bond with a kandra absent this mechanism.

We've been told that Midnight Essences are not voidbringers. We've also seen a Thunderclast arise from the earth beneath the purelake. It didn't seem to have been a Parshen beforehand.

This is a fair point, however, how do we know? Has anyone ever tried? They might be a lot smarter than anyone gives them credit for. Even still, even if a Parshman does have a physical brain better able to handle things like child-care, my point that there are similarities between them isn't necessarily false. I do realize you've raised some points casting doubt upon my theory. I will think on it some more.

Aether: that's why I didn't say they were children, I said they were child-like. A child can learn, grow, and eventually turn into an adult. A parshman cannot. They are trapped, mentally stunted in a moment of incomprehension of abstract thought. Point of order, I didn't say a three-year-old is stupid because he hasn't already learned the quadratic equation. I did say that the average 3-year-old is incapable of being taught it.

I believe I was the one to express the idea that Shards do not have to make sense. What I meant by it was, "I have had a long day and I feel like saying something a bit silly." I personally don't care much about rep. Some people here seem to like me, and I've got enough that it would take determined malice on someone's part to affect me. If I get the occasional unwarranted downvote, meh, it's the internet. What do you expect?

Tineyes see through the mist, not because their eyesight is simply mechanically improved, but because it is now more attuned to the powers of creation, which is what the mists are. They clear from your vision like radio interference when you find the right channel. Wyndle tells us that some spren have trouble hiding and some have trouble being seen. I think that burning tin would affect your ability to see spren. Like how Lift can touch Wyndle because her body is slightly in the cognitive realm, I think tin's metaphysical adjustment to your eyesight makes it harder for spren to hide from your gaze.

The Alethi brought the ten largest military forces on the planet. I think this task was something larger than the Parshendi could do on their own; they needed help. They needed someone to watch almost half the territory of the Shattered Plains, to keep sending out forces when their own troops were wearied. I'm not sure the Parshendi had enough troops on their own to do it. Until the Tower, the concern was that the Parshendi slain in any specific battle were too small a number; almost like they wanted to fake an engagement, while secretly they're fine with the Alethi killing the Chasmfiend, as long as someone did it before it pupated. The Parshendi were wrong. We know that, because Eshonai says that whatever they did, didn't work. So you can't tell me that my theory on what they planned can't be true because it didn't work; we know it didn't work. I think the chasmfiends have always been there, like how the parshmen have always been there and yet Jasnah believes they are the voidbringers. Jasnah is trying to prevent the return of the voidbringers; she hasn't already failed just because there are parshmen around, she'll only fail once they start being voidbringers again. I think something has changed recently and the Parshendi now want the chasmfiends wiped out; they thought that killing them all before they can pupate was the way, and I think we've got WoB that they're mostly succeeding in that; it just seems that like how Vin was sure the Well was in the Terris Mountains, someone was certain and yet wrong. First, I don't know how much direct experience you have with children. My own experience comes from being the oldest grandson out of 29, having five nieces and nephews, and spending a decent chunk of my own childhood babysitting. For all I know you're a 3rd grade teacher or a child psychologist, and if so I bow to your wisdom. That said, in my experience, the situation is a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be. Also, I retract the word "mindless". All of the other words I used to describe the parshmen still stand, I believe. Kids learn quickly, and they have interesting ways to go about problem solving, and in certain immediate and incredibly specialized areas they can be quite intelligent, but no, they are not smarter than adults because of this. This is a deep and intriguing discussion that would involve nuerophysiology, child psychology, educational sciences and would take a long, long time, but the average 4-year-old is not capable of learning, remembering and applying the quadratic equation, no matter how many darndest things he says. My two-year-old nephew is a genius, because he figured out on his own that we get milk from cows and he remembers that babies like to be "warm and cozy". You can tell him, "Please go to the table, get me your juice, and bring it back" and he can handle something that complicated, but if you tell him to wait in one spot, wait for the timer to beep, then go to the play room and line up his blocks in size order, he's not capable of instructions that complicated. I oversimplified slightly for the sake of brevity, but I still stand by my theory. I think that this is an excellent way to describe Parshmen. Thank you for the correction; I was under the impression that it was Ruin rather than Preservation that granted sentience. Regardless, my theory remains this: There's nothing special about Preservation. A bit more of any single Shard would grant sentience; in Scadrial's case it is Preservation. On Roshar, Honor or Cultivation would work as well. Alternatively, perhaps it is like future-sight; it's a general Shardic trait, but some Shards do it better than others. Perhaps Ruin couldn't grant sentience, but that doesn't mean only Preservation can; Cultivation might work just as well. Aha! I had been arguing about this with my friend. I used the term Innate Investiture to describe this (when I was telling him my theories on allomantic bronze and copper) and he didn't like it; now I can go back to him with WoB. Thank you!

He's referencing the fact that Returned eat a Breath per week. If Endowment 'loses' a chunk of power every time he/she makes a Returned, and gets that power back when a normal Breath is sacrificed to keep the Returned going one more week, then after 10 years the power would balance out. I disagree, since Breaths are given to every human on Nalthis and returned at some point, and that one Divine Breath is similarly on loan, but that is his reasoning. Or her, I don't know if Defenestrated's gender has been confirmed, either. Sorry, it's been an odd day and I was indulging in a bit of silliness. I agree that considering the mind in charge, the Cosmere likely does make sense. Also upvote for "extradimensional bribery".

You're flat-out stating something you can't possibly be certain of. I have some decent evidence to support my theory. Instead, she and the others had ordered the murder of their king in a desperate gambit to stop the Parshendi gods from returning. That can be interpretted to support your theory, but it could as easily support mine. We know that the Parshendi refer to the Chasmfiends as gods. We know that Eshonai killed Gavilar in an attempt to stop the return of the Gods. A direct result of the brutality of Gavilar's death was the Vengeance Pact, which has resulted in a never-before-seen slaughter of chasmfiends. Eshonai's observations of her own people is that they take a form, and then act how they want to act, blaming the form for their poor choices. She'd be in a position to know, and she claims it's rather universal. Refusing to take responsibility for your own choices doesn't sound terribly honorable to me. I'd like to know what evidence you have to support your presumptions that the Parshendi are an immutably honorable race. I've seen it argued back and forth across this topic. Yes, we've seen them act in ways to indicate honor, and we've seen them act in ways that indicate dishonor. If they wanted to "assasinate honorably" they could have sent a note ahead; slaughtering a palace-worth of innocent guards to give one man a heads-up is a rather blind way of expressing honor. Either Szeth should have given each guard the same warning he gave Gavilar, or the guards accepted the risk to their own life when they became Guards, and how does that not then also apply to the King? If he doesn't want the responsibility and the possibility of assassination, he should abdicate. If the guards don't want to defend their king, they should quit. You can't have it both ways.

I had a ton of very smart, insightful things to say but you all said them before me. So I'm gonna just rant like a madman instead. MAYBE PARSHENDI EAT GEMHEARTS!

Perhaps, being Endowment, she's actually empowered when she gives something away. Shards don't have to make sense.