Oudeis

Different metal spikes steal different things. The Kandra Blessing spikes specifically steal human attributes, not allomantic or feruchemical powers. If you stab someone with an Iron spike, it will steal their physical strength; if the process causes them to Snap into a pewter misting, your iron spike can't steal that, because it takes a steel spike to steal an Allomantic physical ability. I suppose if you stab someone in the right theftpoint with a steel spike, you can gamble that the stabbing will cause them to Snap, and then steal the newly-awakened pewter, but I think Snapping requires that you survive a near-death experience, not simply die. That's character knowledge in the book, not proven metaphysics, so it's less-than-perfect canon.

Um... yes? I'm not sure I understand Shardlet's confusion, though I think Swim re-phrased what I said in an accurate way. Maybe it would help if I defined meta-biology. Most worlds have at least one formal system of Investiture, something codifiable, a "gift" if you will that a Shard gives to the planet as a whole. Allomancy, feruchemy, Awakening, Surgebinding. It has a formal title, it's a skill or innate power, it's something that sets practitioners apart from non-practitioners. Then there are things that aren't quite so formal, that are a slight gray area, almost always given in equal measure to every member of a given race. Please see my article on racial magic on Roshar. Even though allomancy is genetic, even though everyone born on Nalthis has Breath, these things aren't quite the formal system of investiture. They're stuff like an Aimian's shadow, or the physical stature of koloss pre-Second Ascension (I think, we don't get to see much of the koloss-blooded in Alloy). They obviously break laws of the known universe, they obviously couldn't exist without Investiture in some way, but they aren't the formal "system" that a Shard grants a world. When they're so obviously tied to a race like the shadow is, my word is "meta-biology," the way I've heard people in sci-fi communities justify "magic" as meta-physics. It's biology, just... not quite pure, Earth biology. Does that clear anything up? If not, please explain your question to me since I don't understand.

I think there's a difference between a tin alloy and impure tin. Tin with a bit of other stuff in it is still basically tin, it isn't really an alloy yet. A Tineye would be able to burn it, get some tin power, and the more impure it is, the less power he'd get and the more sick he'd get. A tin misting wouldn't register pewter, period, despite it having a lot of tin in it, because at that point it's not simply "impure tin" it's an alloy, i.e. a different metal. A pewter misting would be able to burn pewter that's off the pure allomantic standard of pewter, to the same stages, until it becomes so impure that it's functionally a different alloy (or pure Tin).

Personally I'd start fishing in Nalthis's waters for that. "Upon call, be as my arm, and move as I must."

Yeah, I don't think it's policed at the borders like homeland security. Once you leave your nation, it starts to weaken, but you have to get pretty far before it is even difficult, let alone non-functional.

Not iambic, so not shakespearean...

You have a point, and if they turn out to have mechanical feruchemy I will concede that you told me so. I'm gonna remain skeptical.

I disagree. The second question was specifically about the applications of mechanical access to the power, it wasn't a broad question about all southern Scadrian Investiture, and that was the answer that specifies it isn't genetics-based. If I recall correctly, the whole thing first came up when someone asked Mr. Sanderson if the Southern Scadrians would have allomancy, since Classic Scadrial had only weak mistings and they wouldn't have the genetic legacy of lerasium. The reasons for Rashek to eliminate southern Feruchemy is: He doesn't want to risk a cross-over of the lines, potentially allowing a Compounder like himself to challenge his throne. To which I reply: Trapping them an inhospitable planet away, possibly in stasis (that's my theory), would do a perfectly fine job of keeping feruchemists from mixing with allomancers. The reason for Rashek to keep southern Feruchemy: WoB is that he wanted an untouched genetic sample in case his experiment in the North went poorly. Since this is his "just in case" plan, you'd think he'd want the tool of feruchemy, since his plan was to be able to use it himself, anyway.

Yeah I've been trying to parse it. There are shades, a woman named Silence, and Forests in a place considered the land of the damned. "in the Forests of Hell" is simple enough, I suppose, just placement, but which "shadows" are "for" "silence"? Maybe it's "for" as in, people "for" the ethical treatment of animals; there's a coalition of shades who stage sit-ins and hold signs in support of her local small business. Regrettably, as no one can see them in sunlight, people are unaware of their actions. They're about as effective as online petitions.

I concur. I think there's no hemalurgy, and why would they need feruchemy when they likely already have their own feruchemists? Rashek kept them down at the other end of the world, and wanted an unchanged genetic reserve. I think he would have left feruchemists there. Maybe even Lutha. So, in short, I don't see a plausibility/need for mechanical anything-but-allomancy. I suppose they could make mechanical feruchemy just because, but I'm not sure many of the traits would be useful. I suppose pewter? Can gold store non-biological health? Can you make a tin telescope that obscures everything, then releases the stored-up sight to let you see really far away? What is "lucky" or "unlucky" for a can-opener?

Not sure I agree with you that his wording means every art is accessed, not just allomancy. Namely, hemalurgy. It's already non-genetic. How could it possibly be made mechanical?

Plausible, but it feels like Alendi and the Hero of Ages... like the descriptions and circumstances are being chosen to fit the theory, rather than letting the theory grow naturally, organically, from the circumstances. Any of that is possible. Is it likely? Why are Aimians not uncommon, then? Why was the xenocide unsuccessful? If his people can obviously be killed, why is he not worried that some magistrate will finish what was started at the scouring?

This is what I'm thinking. Perhaps some avoided corruption and formed the base of the Parshendi we know now; might explain their lengthy exclusion from the rest of the world, not to mention how they lost their forms; perhaps for generations they were afraid to change forms and give evil a chance to corrupt them.

I don't think he takes advantage of coincidence or uses it to cover plot holes, but the fact remains that only so many "things" exist in the world; overlap might be simple overlap. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Heightenings on Nalthis allow you to see color very well... not exactly the same thing, but having "color-dar" might be a bit of sensory overload. Sidenote: I heard in a recent Q&A with Mr. Sanderson that the Southern Scadrians have not only mechanical allomancy, but also mechanical feruchemy. Unfortunately this is not canon because it was from my dream last night. i.e. it did not really happen.

Just re-read the section... he listed a number of traits associated with being an Aimian (his nails, hair, and shadow among them), and then starts talking about his various incarcerations, and then discusses the Curse. I suppose your theory is technically grammatically possible but it feels like a bit of a stretch to me. Perhaps one day we'll learn something that would give us a clue as to why a "reversed shadow" could be called the Curse of Kind.

Interesting... but Wyndle is the spren of Edgedancers, and thus would be where the glowy-white one is, yes? And The glowy-white one then would be where you see Wyndle? Unless Friction is meant to be swapped with illumination, which would then not really explain why Shallan's order is called Lightweavers.

Dakhor is a "system of Investiture" while the Parshendi songs seems to be... something else. Still "Investiture," but not a system like Surgebinding or Allomancy, just a quirk of their meta-biology like a Aimian's shadow. Also, with ten planets and who knows how many mystical effects per planet... yeah, eventually he's gonna start to have some overlap. I'm open to the idea that with more evidence there might be a connection, but with just this I'm going with "coincidence" for now.

Based on....?

There's a quote from Sanderson that implies, if not flat-out says, that his "minor" shardworlds will not have a Shard, but might have something like a Splinter. Clearly, there is SOME Investiture on this planet. While it doesn't seem any human we've seen (though we only saw like six) had any system of magic, there are the shades, and the Evil. It's possible there is simply something special about silver, the chemical element, but maybe whatever Investiture made the shades also made silver special? I wonder, is there any way to purify silver? Can it be smelted, maybe, and the concentrated evil it draws out of shades removed? Is that, perhaps, why the shades dislike the ignition of fire, even though fire itself blinds them? They are trying to prevent anyone from kindling a fire hot enough to purify their weakness? Cosmere-wide... I am SO GLAD you brought up innate investiture. I think that when a shade is passive, the Innate Investiture is what causes them to shy away from living people. The way it blocks ironpulls and steelpushes on Scadrial (and, if you subscribe to my theory, it is what copper Pulls on and bronze Pushes on) I think it automatically grants some protection against passive shades; of course, once a shade's attention is drawn, it overcomes this light aversion, and devours you. I like the idea that your body is the physical fuel used to change your own Innate Investiture into a shade. If that's the case... I wonder if a Smoker burning copper in the Forests would be able to push back shades. Passive ones, at least. I think we've seen that they are averse to Innate Investiture while passive, but greedily infect it while enraged; burning copper while they're mad might just make them worse. I'm certain that burning bronze would let you detect shades, not that they hide. In fact, if it works how I think it does, flaring bronze when you're infected might "hide" your Innate Investiture from the infection, putting off your conversion to a shade. Of course this likely would do nothing to slow down your body withering to a dessicated corpse; still maybe you'd be able to give your buddies a little extra head start before you spring forth to vengefully kill them. How long does Innate Investiture stay with a dead body? Chesterton had been dead for two hours, and Silence still worried the shades would get his body; presumably she'd know, as she seems a fair expert on shades. Does Innate Investiture stay that long? Do the shades simply seek warm bodies (with their "earth sight", tee hee) and they usually have Innate Investiture? The way humans have evolved to like shiny things because long ago shiny things usually (but not always) meant water?

Interesting... but, if you have a candle, and I light my candle from yours, they will gain separate cognitive aspects, yes? Or perhaps they don't. That'd be an interesting implication for Shadesmar. Or maybe one bead "budding" off another is different from sparks being used to generate one out of nothing? Maybe the blood and the fire are both entropy? Blood spilled to harm a human, fire consumes? Fire can be used for creation, but it always turns fuel to ash. Interesting that the act of fire creation upsets them while the fire itself blinds them... is this only new fire, or would any torch blind a shade? All excellent points. Slaughtering a deer is at least as "drawn in anger" as Sebruki dropping something that cuts her "aunt", or a wolf taking down a deer.

According to a recent census, onions fall squarely into the category of "speakable horrors", so that could potentially be arranged, yes.

Dysian; though your point is well-made. Although in Axies's interlude, he strongly implies he's the other kind. I'm not certain it isn't a bit of a leap to assume that "taken apart and put back together" means an entire race of people cannot be killed and don't age. He claims that he's followed by the "Curse of Kind." What might that be? He seems to expect himself to survive several more centuries in order to catalogue every possible type of spren. And not just surviving age; he gets beaten, "killed", and incarcerated on the regular, and seems not to fear death. I suppose it's possible there's a race of literally immortal people out there, I just don't personally buy it. Re-reading the interlude... oddly enough, a crazy man flat-out asks him, "Are you a void-bringer or a herald?" and he does answer "voidbringer." I put it to you that he's undercover. Sidenote: Roshar seems to be on the planet's southern hemisphere? They do mention that the north is warmer than the south several times. For what it's worth.

Yeah we've already got a few light spoilers up, and I'm deathly allergic to spoilers. I wouldn't mind if we delete the whole thread, as long as it's not here anymore.

Is it only human blood that draws shades? Silence served venison. Did she suffocate the poor deer to death first? Are you allowed to spill dead blood? Yet the surveyors mention that predators got eaten by the shades, so spilling animal blood must count. Even if you did it indoors, surrounded by silver, at high noon, they'd still enrage. Silence's grandmother ran around in circles on the other side of silver, and she still provoked the shade she'd trapped with Silence. My current theory is that they kill the animals in some non-blood-letting way, maybe wrapped up in tarred burlap like the bandits, wait for the blood to cool, then open it and butcher the animal. Doesn't sound sanitary to me...