Ixthos

I would agree, but I think it is also important to remember that in the cosmere ones spiritual aspect can be changed, and Brandon has hinted that two twins could end up merging if they saw themselves as one person, so two pieces of flesh that think of themselves as one could work, and if healing doesn't let you graft new flesh on then replacement organs would have to be handled very carefully in the cosmere. Also, and I don't want to get spoilery, have you read the unpublished novels?

Healing depends on the perception - if someone has a wound and accepts it as part of themselves the healing wouldn't work. Conversely, if they think something is a part of them, wouldn't it make sense for the healing to incorporate that? I don't want to go into spoilers for other series, but we have seen at least two series cover something similar with wounds, and unpublished novel brings to mind a similar situation, though very different in other ways

I like the idea of an aluminium casing :-) On the topic of hemalurgically spiking the machine, I definitely think it would be possible, but I also think it might be a little more convoluted than that. Putting aside that I think feruchemy and hemalurgy might be used to store a portion of stolen traits in a way that doesn't decay, a spike will still retain at least a minimum charge indefinitely - something which raises questions about if you take a single spike, break it, and then spike someone with both parts would the hole be bigger, and thus let a soother control them? I think it would be a little like what happened in Secret History with Kelsier getting the campfire to burn. A spike with the trait from the mental region might be able to manifest that idea, if the part in the spike thinks of itself as something that thinks. Make it work in the cognitive realm like the camp fire or the fortresses walls, and maybe wire it up to the other component, and the spike will function as a processor, not having to be spiked in, but simply sitting attached by wires to the other components. Feed it power, make it think of itself as something that thinks, and wire it to the rest. On the topic of the Cognitive realm, I also wonder if it might be possible to lay down cognitive cables, so you can wire to machines together in the cognitive realm and achieve a form of wireless communication while still using wires.

I am seeing the letter as more plausible now, though it still feels a little of a stretch. After talking to Frost in that scene it does specifically seem Hoid is referencing Odium having his own goals. It might be another shard or some other threat, but if he was talking about "I would not worry about my vendetta" applying to Odium, mentioning his other victims would also be something to bring up. I do see how it could work otherwise - there have been stranger conversations in real life. It could go either way

The latest technology in 1980's Scadrial, a dual splinter processor well in advance of the equivalent technology we had in the 1980's :-P I think that computers will become a major force in the future Cosmere novels, as they will allow for mechanical systems to use investiture in predictable and programmable ways. Now it is possible that some cultures, especially Scadrial, will develop the technology that we have well in advance of finding out how to use the metallic arts, I think that at least some of it will involve using the arts to make computers more easily or with greater capacities than what we currently have now - I think that might even be a twist in one of the 1980's stories. So, ignoring the possibilities of them developing computers as we have, how can the different systems be used to produce computers, both by themselves and by interacting with other systems? Sel Roshar Scadrial Threnody Nalthis I also think that anyone who has read the unpublished novels would have some theories as well, but I think it is best to keep those speculations out of this thread.

One issue that has been bugging me about the traveller excerpt is it doesn't make sense when one considers the letters. Hoid was on Sel before he was on Scadrial, as the events of Hero of Ages take place after Elantris Being on Sel, Hoid likely knew that Aona and Skai were dead Thus Hoid, when on Scadrial and seeing Ati and Leras die would know that at least four were dead When he talks with Frost, he only mentions Ati and Leras Frost indicates that he knows, and that he has been watching Logically, Hoid would conclude he has been watching everywhere and so already knows about Aona and Skai, and doesn't mention them to Frost Three hundred years later, he sends a letter pointing out that Aona and Skai are dead The easiest solution would be the writing could be changed, or that Hoid could have been reiterating to Frost about events he might not have been watching at the time, but it still doesn't make sense.

Note - this is related to the Interlinked theories thread. This post might seem a little rambly Part of what makes the Cosmere so interesting is the interconnections between the stories, both overt and subtle. Historic events hinted at such as the history and events leading up to and including Kwaan and Alendi, and the events between Taln being abandoned and modern Roshar, historic and current connections between stories on different planets like the shattering and like the members of the 17th shard searching for a certain drifter, behind the scenes events like Mistborn Secret History, and the unique systems which function differently but affect and are based on the same principles all make the stories have more depth, especially because while you read about Kalad's Phantoms you also know that in the same universe, on another planet, people live on a planet with a sun that stands directly overhead on one side, and another side where the sun never is seen. What other planets are there with their own systems and interactions, and is their life outside the cluster? This sort of interconnection is something I enjoy a lot (and if anyone knows of other stories which do this I would like to know!), but there is something else I think is not always thought of - the main Cosmere stories aren't just connected to each other, they also cover a separate approach to interconnected world building. Brandon's original outline listed four stories as the main stories in the Cosmere, with others as background and minor stories. The main stories are those set on Sel, the ten Stormlight Archive books, the Mistborn series, and Dragonsteel. The specific worldbuilding and story depth for them - and which the magic systems they use seem to support - seem to be Sel - the different possible cultures that can exist on a planet, with magic systems specifically focused on and impacted by geography and language, factors which affect culture, just as one can be devoted to their nation and seek to have dominion over others Roshar - different takes on honour and the impact of forgotten or false history, uncovering the past and the significance of its events, and growing and maturing inspite of the lies and hardships, becoming better than you were and better than your history, both as a person and as a people, says you should be. Scadrial - development of a single society and culture, impacted by technology and cultural shifts with some things lost and new things gained and some things retained, with the metallic arts themselves specifically able to be implemented technologically, as well as having well documented interactions with conventional physics Yolen - the beginnings of other stories, with a single pivotal event echoing down to affect those who were not directly involved. We don't know too much about the magic or the plot, and what is known is difficult to talk about, so I will avoid saying much more than that at the moment These core elements are what will drive those specific stories, and I will come to the way they will interact in a moment, but first, the magic systems: These systems - with the possible exception of Yolen - are I suspect the most powerful and versatile magic systems known, and I don't think it is a coincidence that all of them - again, as we don't know much about Yolen it might be an exception - are on worlds that have more than one shard present. As Khriss noted, systems with more than one shard are rare, only a handful, and those first three hold seven shards of the known ten and total sixteen. It is hard to say that only a handful of star systems with multiple shards if there is more than one other, as that would mean nine or more shards are present on four worlds or star systems, and seven worlds have seven shards. If Yolen has more than one though, it would still make sense as Khriss doesn't seem to know much about Yolen's current status, other than it has Fainlife. Major world systems: Contrast this with Sand Mastery for example. A key point, however, is that while the major worlds have access to powerful and versatile abilities, and large amounts of power, the minor worlds systems are based on the same principles and can affect things in a similar way, just a more restricted or more fuel limited way. Awakening is very versatile, but is limited by the number of breaths. Aethers I don't know how in depth I can get into, but hints strongly at a usefulness in the space opera series in several ways. Bands of Morning hinted that Shades could be used as weapons and possibly more in a similar way to Spren. The main point is this, however - the major systems allow for a wide range of abilities beyond most other systems, and natural access to a large amount of power to fuel them. The main limitations for the main systems are the fuel when offworld, and getting shard metals, but I think Oathbringer gave a hint as how to gain more in its climax, as perpendicularities can possibly be a source of fuel for all the systems, and I suspect that ships will each contain one or be able to make use of them to travel in the Cognitive realm (or maybe use the Spiritual for teleportation) either by passing through an artificial one, or by using one within them as a "warp core" or hyperdrive, drawing power directly from the shard - assuming the perpendicularities aren't used up, or even if they are and can simply be recharged. On the stories themselves, however, I think the main focus becomes clearer. The minor stories I suspect introduce elements which are either directly important to future events in the main stories (like introducing Vasher) or events and ideas which will have an impact later on in the main stories, and especially Mistborn 4. A key point, however, is that Brandon writes his stories with both climaxes and twists related to the magic systems, and as I said earlier, the magic systems support the core theme of each, especially Sel and Scadrial. Eventually in the Mistborn space opera it is likely that the other star systems will have discovered how to use their magic systems to travel, possibly by incorperating elements of other magic systems into their own, but unless the ten Stormlight also covers the colonisation of the moons, and contact with Ashyn, only Mistborn will show how a single culture develops its FTL, basing side stories. Sel's progression Roshar's progression And finally Scadrials progression The interconnections between them means that the worldbuilding of the Cosmere can have the depth of all these approaches without each novel having to focus on more than one type, and with the space opera Mistborn the combined interactions some of those elements will bleed together, such as the culture of each shardworld interacting like the cultures on Sel, the development of the cultures to become space opera, and the myths and histories of the people being called into questions by their shared history. To summarise The main Cosmere stories are those set on star systems with multiple shards Systems which have multiple shards have more versatile magic systems than those on worlds with single shards or no shards Those systems will be major players, though others will also be involved and might have a large impact as well Their main impact will be because of the particular focus of the worldbuilding of those planets which in tern are affected by the nature of the shards present The metallic arts were specifically designed to affect both the Cosmere and the other magic of the shards Ships will use - or some will use - onboard or generatable perpendicularities to achieve FTL, and those will also allow access to the shard metal of the shard the perpendicularity is formed from Computers using the magic systems will also be involved soon, with either series showing at least one method before the final series

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I agree at least multi-cellular life would make sense, though at another point, in that quote Brandon said that an area which had been scoured of all life, including bacteria, would start to fade, so it might be that life itself is the determining factor, and that intelligent life has a larger impact but a simple bacterium is enough life to sustain an area, if not put it on the map - what becomes more interesting is how bacteria will manifest in the realm when people learn about them - will only bacteria which people know are present or have actively observed show up, or is knowing they are present enough to make an effect? I originally thought that the reason the planets become so crystal and stone like as Kelsier travelled was because he was approaching Sel, as Sel seems to have an association with stone, just as the planets by Scadrial had mist - but him still being in Scadrial makes that less likely, though he might have been in Scadrial's subastral but on the line to Sel. I agree it would be cool to see the cognitive realm from a higher elevation - it seems so strange that everything in the physical world, no matter if it is on land or the sea, is mapped to the surface. I personally think that the Cognitive realm has a non-euclidean geometry that is warped by perception and belief so that some areas are hyperbolic while others are spherical, and others flat, though all areas seem flat locally, which might actually go towards supporting your merry-go-round approach, with the areas where they touch the area around the star being smaller than the area of the planet. I personally think that eventually ships will use the Cognitive realm to travel, and so Windrunners and Skybreakers and Fused exploring the upper areas of Shadesmar had better make sure they don't get hit by low flying space ships ;-) I actually am interested to see how this goes - maybe we will see them exploring the edges like you suggest. That would be cool! Just to let those who are interested know, I will later on next week be going through the first post and updating it piecemeal, and adding new topics with links to it outlining further thoughts on the theories and observations, and explaining the theories better. I hope everyone is well and takes care!

@Gasper I think we can break down ship design into four categories, each with subcatagories, being with basic metals for the ship (i.e. using primer cube technology to make the ship use either allomancy or feruchemy) required for the ship to function as a ship (flight, steering) required for the ship to perform auxiliary functions (computers, etc with basic metals for the crew (i.e. what astronauts would use) required to use the ship or let it function required to perform functions which are not critical to travel, but to performing functions in space with hypothetical shard metals and alloys for the ship (with the same subcategories as above, includes Atium, etc.) with hypothetical shard metals and alloys for the crew (with the same subcategories as above, include Atium, etc.) Also note that some functions can be handled by technologies currently available to use, but which might be more efficient using allomancy and feruchemy. All subcategories are included in the main categories Exploring each of these as follows, and making some impromptu guesses: Basic metals for the ship (as a ship and auxiliary functions) - used by the ship, not the crew Basic metals for crew (for flight and auxiliary crew roles / support) - can be part of ship but used by the crew, or worn by them Shard metals for ship as a ship and auxiliary functions (hypothetical) Shard metals for crew for flight and Auxiliary crew roles / support (hypothetical) - mostly incomplete Some of this is guesswork, and I might change my opinion on some of these, but I hope this helps

@Weltall I think it is important to realise the full implications of that quote, and why I think it is either mistranscribed or a misinterpretation of what Brandon either said or meant. I will repeat it here: To full unpackage it, the quote says: The space opera mistborn series will not introduce or feature new metals - the use of italics indicates it is the series, not just space travel The eight basic metals and the eight basic alloys, and Harmonium - but not Harmonium alloys - will be involved, and their interactions, but no other metals. This means that, if this is correct, there will only be sixteen metals involved. No alloys of Harmonium, no Atium or Lerasium or their alloys, as Saze's metal is not an alloy of them (source), and none of the other metals which could be made will feature, though other alloys exist (source). It isn't just that the space opera will not require them to achieve FTL, it means that only sixteen metals, the ones they already know about, and Harmonium, will show up in the final trilogy, and no new metals or alloys. The spike Bleeder used will not feature, nor will any mistings be produced by burning Lerasium alloys, nor will the metals that shardblades are made from appear and be used in allomancy, feruchemy, or hemalurgy. I think this doesn't match what we have been implicitly promised by the Wax and Wayne novels, which showed that there are more possible metals, nor does it match what Brandon implied when he said that more metals are possible with different alloys and that he intends to show them as reveals in later stories (source and source). The last point is this:

@tabitreader The 4 genders seem to be male, female, malen, and femalen, i.e. the standard two genders and the asexual non-mateform genders. It might well not be the case, but I think that is the generally understood explination Also, I think that the answer is that Spren were already present before Honour and Cultivation arrived as they arrived after the Shattering https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6173

It isn't enough for Space Opera - there is no FTL in the basic metals. Without the ability to travel in ships between the planets as though they were simply cities on other continents the space travel will not be enough with the base 16.

I think you are misunderstanding me @Fatikis. I am saying space travel will require those alloys with shard metals. That is my point, that those metals give properties which normal allomancy doesn't, and so will provide abilities that are related to the base metals but different. The 16 base metals are not enough to travel in space.

@Fatikis So you agree? Your first sentience says that there are only going to be 16 base metals in allomancy. Your second sentience says there are more alloys, but due to the first sentence implies they are not allomantic, as in they might be Feruchemical or Hemalurgic or primer cube. Your third sentince reinforces this, as Harmonium can't be ingested and so can't be safely burnt, implying that the interpretation on the first sentince - no more allomantic metals - is correct.

You stated there were no more allomantic metals other than the base 16 (technically 8 basic and 8 normal alloys). I was reitterating that there are more than 16 allomantic metals. Let us clear up further misunderstandings - do you agree that there are more than 16 metals that can be burnt, and those those will produce allomantic effects?

@Calderis I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility for Sazed to make it possible to gain more of all three metals, and Rashik apparently went somewhere to gain the Lerasium, so it might well be possibly to find a location where the metals naturally form - perhaps he gained the metal from the well itself. And if it can be gained from perpendicularities, other metals can be gained by travelling to the right world. If they come from some other source, then another method might work. It also assumes that you need a lot, but perhaps only a small amount of metal is needed to alloy, or perhaps you only need some at a single location, and that location can allow space travel without the ships needing the metal onboard @Fatikis There are several alloys, after all Atium is allomantic, and Atium and gold are a confirmed allomantic alloy, and they are not of the original sixteen, nor is Lerasium one of the sixteen.

On that note, I think it might also be that medallion technology using other metals - assuming the medallions don't already use other metals - which could produce different effects should be considered. There is one known alloy with a shard metal, and its results are a variant on the base metal. Has the possibility of alloys which produce affects similar to the base metal been considered, such as an alloy of Cadmium, which doesn't stretch time but rather distance, been considered? I think that not enough has been revealed of the possible metals, and so not enough is known, so using the current set of metals won't answer all issues, but variant metals might be the idea.

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I like this analogy! As you were explaining it I was thinking about how the quadrant you end up in on the larger reference frame would be determined by when you got off of your initial one, but you answered that during. This helps explain it rather well. Ta :-) I think it might be a little more complex than you are proposing, though I also agree with the nature of the attenuation, as I think the material and particles which are not directly observed or not distinct enough from one another exist as a single whole representing the vastness of the space away from other life, as everything reflects on the Cognitive and Spiritual realms - each atom has a shared identity with its neighbours as part of the unvisited areas, and only becomes distinct once thought of as distinct. With the paths, those areas might be travelled through in the Cognitive might be seen as more distinct in the Cognitive realm as well, so it would be interesting to see how a system which lies directly between two star systems that are inhabited but is itself not - would the traffic of those in the Cognitive realm mean it might begin to be noticed, or would it remain like those areas which no-one sees or knows about, and no-one travels near? I think the added complexity would be in that the frames of reference are not all in the same plane, so it might well be that for a few you would exit one and enter its parent at a higher or lower elevation like the rings of a gyroscope which have been pushed into different planes. I also wonder about where the barrier is - if you had some friends with you and you exit from one frame of reference into another while they remained behind, and then wait at the boarder, would your friends seem to be moving away over time, or would they remain fixed, even though the reference frame they are in is moving relative to yours? Or would it be a more gradual change from one area to another, so that the further you walk the more in the other reference frame you would be? From what we have seen, when the Cognitive realm interacts with the physical it is far more distinct - unless something is in both realms like Leras's knife, it seems that something either is in one realm or the other, or you are in one area or another - speed bubbles being an example, being either completely in or completely out - though the mists seems exempt, as do windspren, though again it could well be they are exactly half way between, or more one side than another. [Edit: fixed a sentence]

@RShara Fair enough on people :-) Your argument makes sense, though I will agree to disagree ;-)

Just to clear up a point, has it been confirmed that most of the worlds are human, and that maybe there isn't another species present which is more numerous, either from within the cluster or from outside it? I know it is mostly irrelevant to the current discussion, but your observation about most planets with life being colonised by humans from Yolen interested me. To be clear, your take is that Roshar is the closest system to the four others and not just appearing to be close, and so the mapping is that of any worlds close together physically, whether the star is visible or not to their neighbours, will result in the two being close in the Cognitive realm? I do see the logic of this argument, especially if the Cosmere is very small, but I don't think it fully explains the relationships, including the reason for the orientation of the paths relative to the geography of Roshar. Either way, I do like your idea. Could you clear up what you mean with the orientation of the maps with the Red rip? My own theory is that the Red rip is either the origins of Fain life, or something that fain life is fleeing from, so it would make sense for Yolen to be there. I still think my theory on the reasons for the paths is correct, with the vantage being from Yolen, but I wouldn't be surprised if you are right :-) @Weltall Sorry about that - I'll try to remember to use the quote function more frequently, as I hope this post shows. And you are welcome :-) I know that, and I did think it was a weak comparison, but my main point was they are different things which live in the same environment and which while clearly different still are seafood, and could both go with the same side dish or sauce like tartar sauce, with tartar source being a shard :-P Perhaps another creature would have been a better comparison, but you also make my point that Cognitive shadows have more in common with spren then crabs do with fish. Either way, you agree that a Cognitive shadow has more in common with a spren than a Greatshell, for example. A True spren is very different from a lesser spren, a Threnody shade is more like a lesser spren than a Cognitive shadow like Kelsier or the Fused, and even among True spren, an Inkspren and a Honourspren are very different, just like an Honourspren and a Cryptic. Yet can we agree a True spren and Kelsier would be virtually identical if you could only talk to them and not see them, and True spren have more capability to choose than a lesser spren (with Silences Grandmother being an exception if you agree a lesser spren and a Threnody shade are similar) while an animal and a person would have the same relationship. Basically, as far as the mind goes, a True spren and a Cognitive shadow and a human or Kandra or any other intelligent species are virtually identical, with at least one of these groups able to become a member of another. If a spren were somehow to take control of a human body with no mind, live in that body as though it were its own, would you agree it would be basically identical, possibly able to take up a shard then? Kelsier needed connection to do it, and Ruin noted his lack of a body weakened his hold, but other than a mind, other than being able to choose, and being connected to a shard, does anything else matter? Syl and Pattern see the world differently, true, but so do people from different walks of life. If - in theory - a dragon and a Sho Del could take up a shard, and their minds are likely different to humans, why not a spren? If a spren lived a lifetime in a body, eventually saw the physical world as normal and real, would that make a difference to how they see the world? Kelsier as a splinter was able to take up a shard, becoming a sliver true, but as a spinter he could take up a shard. Is the only thing that mattered was his perception of the physical world as more real than the cognitive, when a shard exists even less in one realm than a non-shard? In short, what do you think something or someone needs to be able to take up a shard? Agreed, but I am extending the argument further, that due to perception or fact the parts of the spirit web that correspond to the eye are in that area, and that binding allomantic steel to that area makes the spirit web use allomantic steel not just for pushing, but for seeing - the web thus re purposes the power to do more than it originally had - after all, an allomancer can't see the lines behind them, unless I am mistaken, and neither can an inquisitor. Were there any scenes where Vin or Kelsier or Wax close their eyes and could still see the lines? I can't remember, but if so, then an inquisitor would be blind unless the spike specifically took over sight. With Koloss and Chimaeras though we can agree that something being added caused a massive change probably outside of the normal nature of those properties. A Koloss might be bigger and taller, which could be argued to be a function of being made stronger, or the property of strength is also linked to increased mass, but their skin also turns blue. With the Chimaeras we don't know what was added, true, and it might be the spike somehow adds several things, or something was also spikes out of them as well, but unless it was the full traits of some creature they are heavily warped. My main points though are on inquisitors gaining sight with less power than Elend had, and Koloss skin colour. Marsh didn't have enough time to become a Savant, though - Spook took a long time, but Marsh could see in short order, and seemed to use it naturally. I'm not saying that a spike for steel would let you posh an object sideways if placed in the right spot (though I think an alloy being burnt might), or that a spike for emotional allomancy would let you hear thoughts, but I am suggesting that the power could be modified slightly not in the spike itself, but in how it is used. First off, I like your diagrams, and they are similar to an idea for a form of travel in some stories I am writing. I think diagrams are always helpful for explaining, so thank you for the effort you put in, and the thought! My main disagreement, though, is that while I would agree you could use the direction the sun or star has to its neighbours, the planets move around the sun, and the sun itself doesn't have an expanse associated with the other stars, or at least we haven't been shown one. Rigel moves in a circle around the earth from our perspective, so while in the scale of human civilisation it remains fixed relative to the sun, relative to us it moves in a circle, and so we would first have to move to the sun before moving towards it. I think your last diagram is very accurate and describes Shadesmar well. I just disagree with the argument that the expanses can then be maps to it based on the orientation of the stars to the Rosharan sun. Let us take Taldain for example. Like the Rigel example, at different times during the night it would appear to be at different sides, rising in the east like the sun and setting in the west. Later in the year you might even see it earlier in the night than you did at first, and eventually you wouldn't see it at all, because as Roshar orbits its own sun it would only be seen above the planet during the day, when it would be overshadowed by the light of their sun.

Interesting to consider that when Hoid was talking to Frost Hoid told him about Ati and Leras, and Frost knew, but in the letter he later told him that Aona and Skai were dead, which he would have known earlier than the event of Hero of Ages, and which he would probably suspect Frost already knew if he had been watching.

@RShara I have read that quote, you don't need to post it again ;-) I realise you disagree with me, and that is fair :-) I would like to know what you feel the reason the relation between Roshar and the other systems maps to that art though. You know my opinion, but I am curious about yours.

@RShara On the flat part, that might be what it mean, true, and it is likely that is all it means - I addressed that with hyperbolic geometry. Hyperbolic geometry, though, means something can be flat and still have unexpected dynamics that reflect curves, and areas with a perimiter that is small and an area that is massive - not exactly flat as most people think of it. And fair point on the art, though I don't see it as contradicting my argument - the stars are in three dimensions, so mapping them to a surface in an environment which is shaped by belief, and the more people believe something makes it more real, would indicate that the relations are determined by collective perception. But I do concede, my argument has holes, and it might well be that physically closer stars directly connect without people seeing or believing them to be close. The quotes do indicate that Isaac handles the symbols, and that bolded section at the end, though, does only point out the constellations drawn are something Brandon didn't come up with, not that he didn't choose the stars, or even that he told Isaac to draw the stars in a general way, and Isaac used that as a base, or finally that Isaac had free reign with the layout and it has nothing to do with the layout of the stars and their planets in the Cognitive realm. @hoiditthroughthegrapevine I agree with the parts corresponding to the planets, but my main point was the space between planets, which can't be a manifold mapped onto another surface as only the planets are sound, while space is empty, so how do you define which areas stitch together in an environment shaped by belief? That argument has merritt, but the problem persists - if you track the stars in the night sky from earth, which way would you walk to get to Rigel? Which way to get to Canopus or Sirius or Arcturus? The only one which would make sense would be Polaris. What about the Moon? The planets rotate, so unless the stars are due north or south all the time you can't map them to a single direction.

@RShara I actually addressed the second half of your response when I responded to The One Who Connects, so I won't repeat the full details here, but basically Brandon didn't actually say it is flat, as he points out it is distorted. As to the first, I think we will have to disagree - after all, the painting still could be from Yolen - that isn't ruled out, just that those constellations aren't Yolish, and that quote is from Isaac, not Brandon ;-) We know it isn't Silverlight, we don't know it isn't from Yolen.

Before I address the responses I feel I should clear a few things up. When I talk in person, unless I am specifically stating certain facts directly, I will often phrase things in terms of questions, even when they are not actually questions I myself have. When I addressed RShara, the first paragraph was not a list of questions I was asking because I didn't know the answer, they were questions to challenge what seemed to be assumptions her response to my previous post had had. The idea of the Cognitive realm's structure is not affected by belief, just expanded by the presence of thought at or potentially about an area was one I disagreed with, and it seemed to be RShara's view. Please do not misunderstand me though! If there are counters to the questions, I would like to hear them, but please realise that when I asked how a fixed relationship can be maintained while they are moving, I wasn't asking in confusion, I was asking to make a point that they are moving, and have a fixed relationship, and that meant it couldn't be based just on how close they were physically. In short, my argument was: The direction one has to move to get from one planet to another is a fixed direction once in Shadesmar on Roshar That direction does not always correspond to the direction one would face in the physical realm to see the star that the planet one wishes to travel to orbits (i.e. you face one direction to see a planet, but enter Shadesmar, turn around, and then walk in the opposite direction, and then you are on the planet) The chart also doesn't show how one would have to move to reach the moons or gas giants or other planets in the system, which don't correspond to the expanses, and there is little indication that those expanses will make you walk past those planets or systems, other than the possibility that the art for each system shows the way the planets or moons are arranged in the Cognitive realm, though that wouldn't make much sense for Roshar as the expanses are diagonal. However, if there are arranged as such, then in theory one could approach the planet from the sides, and moving to the top or the bottom would bring one closer to Braize or Ashyn respectively From the perspective of the art Roshar is the centre of four other systems The stars and the planets are not on a flat surface but arranged in space, and are most likely arranged such that if looked at from another perspective Roshar could be the furthest planet from the others, while previously isolated planets would be closer together, so the exact path is not entirely drawn from the physical realm. Therefore, the fact that Roshar is the hub of four other star systems is due to the fact that, from the perspective of the location the art was drawn Roshar is the centre of those four other systems, and the Cognitive realm was shaped accordingly. Also, the Nexuses, which resemble the expanses, are probably how one accesses the moons. @Weltall I agree, though my main argument, as I mentioned, is that the reason it is this particular relationship. Fair point about the moons. I think there is a significance about all the moons, like maybe the shards need something to inhabit while travelling, but I agree it would be strange. The main reason I am curious though is because of soulstone and its origins as have been claimed. I think Khriss is making the distinction on origins because it helps explain different behaviours - like a fish and a crab are both sea creatures, but one walks and the other swims, but they both would count as sea food. With spren, what test could you do to determine they are different to a cognitive shadow? What I mean is that the spikes, by being added in different places, will manifest differently. The proteins that make up the machinery of your cells are built from amino acids, and their configuration results in the shape of the protein, which only has its shape because the acids link together and fold it in the right shape. Thus you can have two proteins composed of a similar number of amino acids, and most of the same amino acids, but the acids where placed together differently and thus folding differently, and that difference makes them perform different functions. I think the spikes work in the same manner. After all, four spikes of human strength make a Koloss when placed in the right place, which is more than just a human with five times the strength of an ordinary human - the strength has to have changed somehow when added to them - and one spike with an unknown attribute makes the monsters Bleeder sent. The recipients body is warped by the added components, so I suspect the abilities, when placed in certain areas, manifest differently. An inquisitor has to be able to see very quickly, far to quickly to have become a savant by having extra power, and inquisitors bodies are warped by the presence of the spikes - it makes sense that how the power is attached is changed as well. Marsh had two spikes for steel and no natural ability for steel, Zane had natural steel and a steel spike, and Eldend was probably stronger than both - I think Zane would probably be stronger with steel than Marsh, but I agree on the amount of charge being important. Fair enough :-) Though I still think welding spikes together could have an interesting effect, though obviously not a healthy one. Also, to continue answering points you made in the previous post, when I said main stories I mean based on the original outline for the series - Elantris and its sequels, Mistborn series, Stormlight, and Dragonsteel were stated to be the main series, and the rest are secondary, basically support for it, like White Sand, the Warbreaker ("unnamed Vasher prequel"), etc. So of those four main series, three are the only know planets or systems with more than one shard actively present. I hadn't seen one. Thanks for showing it! I think sometimes an avoided question can be more informative than an answered on, though not always obviously ;-) @RShara That is the point I was making - ZY shows another perspective where their relations are different. The thing is that both the planets rotations and the stars movements would affect their physical location - in summer you would see a star you wouldn't see in winter, but in the morning you would see the last star of the day on the opposite side you would see it when it first appears. And which way would you walk to reach the sun, for example? I think the view that the art represents is the view that humans first saw in the Cosmere, and so when they colonised that view determined the relations, because their myths and legends, reflected in what they named the stars and the stories they told shaped them, and once they were shaped, and once others began to travel those paths further travel cemented those relationships. This also might mean that when people start to think of the space as vast, and the planets as floating in three dimensions rather than being as close as they appear, travel would become much more difficult. I do find it interesting that life has a different structure in the Cognitive realm than ordinary matter. Brandon is exploring concepts in philosophy like the ship of Theseus, and when do a few grains of sand piled together become a heap. Life seems to be distinct from ordinary material, and spren feed on or can sense emotion, so things not connected directly to solid material are probably like smells or flavours. But what is really interesting is the question of whether there is a distinction between an area and an object. The planet they walk on could well be a large bead that the ocean of little bead and the black ground that is water rest on, or maybe it is a separate thing, and there is a bead in the sea corresponding to the whole area. So far, the two Cognitive realm areas we have seen are similar but very different, with the mists being shaped like the objects they are reflections of, and the beads able to link together to reflect the bead chosen as the base. The Cognitive realm has reflections of objects, reflections of places, reflections of water - which in large concentrations all combine together to link the planets - the plants that grow and reflect the area they are from, be it mist sprouting or crystal, and whatever air there is. But the idea of a place still hadn't been explored other than buildings. Thank you for the quote on the moons, by the way! The idea that bacteria are enough to sustain an area is interesting :-) @The One Who Connects I disagree that Brandon has been clear, as, after all, the surface of the Earth is flat, but distorted as well, and a circle with a large enough radius resembles a line. Indeed, a sphere with a radius the size of Pluto's average orbital distance would drop off incredibly slowly. Brandon says it is a flattened version, but that doesn't mean flat. Not that I am suggesting it is a sphere, though it might be. It probably is like rubber, some areas closer together if you approach them one way than if you did another, and some areas having a hyperbolic geometry, with a smaller perimeter than their area would indicate. With regards to the planets orbiting, I was actually thinking about that with regards to planets sometimes being on the other side of the sun from one another, though I was mainly thinking of our largest gas giant ;-) You basically restated, but more eloquently, my own argument :-) My basic point of that was that the reason it is this configuration, and not another, is because the people who saw the night sky thought of those stars and their planets as being near to one another, and that is why it is that configuration and not another. With respect, the statement about Commands being the focus is somewhat paraphrased, so I am not entirely convinced, but I do agree it would make sense. The reason I said that about life, though, was because Vasher specifically said that the hair was the focus. The fact he placed something organic on the figure and gave it a command, and said it would work better because the hair was the focus made me think that it was life that is the focus. However, it might be that he meant it differently than Brandon meant it, so it is a focus in a different way. But thank you for the information :-) I still don't see how a Cognitive shadow is any different from a spren, as they are both made of the same material in the same state. Unless the prior links to the physical world are important, I think a mind and connection to the shard is all that matters. After all, Kelsier could - confirmed in a previous quote, however Brandon has since either changed his mind or regrets answering as he now has declined answering - be bonded like a spren, and Nightblood has a physical form. Also, @Weltall, @RShara, and @The One Who Connects, I would like to add that, prior to posting this topic I have previously read your responses and own posts on various theories, and I would like to let you all know how much I respect your opinions, an appreciate your feedback, even though we disagree. Your insights are helpful, and I do hope your day has been going well.