Ixthos

In-system space travel. The fifth arc will end with Odium either dead or re-imprisoned, with the ... characters who wrote the three letters in Oathbringer reaching out across the spiritual realm to interfere with him - they have been directly referred to in the story ("it will draw out powers that could hurt him"), and which have stated - or at least one has stated about Odium - "If he becomes a problem, he will be dealt with". Maybe those characters will need help, and ten protagonists will fight to contain Odium while he is restrained by those characters, or whoever takes up Odium after the characters kill his predecessor will need to be contained. And that will give them time to develop space ships which will be restricted to their home system, and they will then travel to the other planets around their star, which they learnt in Oathbringer that some have life on them - though some they learnt are further out than their home system.

I'm convinced that Truthwatchers have a spiritual laser that lets them attack negative or harmful magic, so they can both burn away negative investiture while healing someone with that same laser. Cultivation isn't just growing something, but cutting off the dead limbs, removing parasites.

Its been a while since I watched it, but I enjoyed it when I did. It has been years though. Still, mentioning that on this forum ... Mistborn and Sixth of the Dusk spoilers:

For the moment, lets ignore metalminds. Just for this paragraph at least. On Roshar, stick could communicate to Shallan, through her use of Soulcasting and Pattern, that it was a stick. It had an idea of what a stick is, due to the spiritual connections, and it had been a stick for a while, so it thought of itself as a stick. If someone were to Awaken stick - and that doesn't involve arguing with it, just placing in Breaths and a command - do you think that stick would still be thinking of itself as just a stick, or would say it is a stick with a mission? Now, metalminds - if a metalmind were to be seen on Roshar - or anywhere - with a soucaster, it would also have an identity - "I store health" for example, or "I remember this memory" - and would also have more investiture. A metalmind likely has a more complex presence due both to its link to a magic like Feruchemy, and also due to the stored investiture. Now, the key point is this: Nightblood is very specifically not described in the Cognitive realm yet. It is very invested, yes - but also consider that many Awakened objects can also be very invested - not as much usually, but they are large amounts of investiture, with a more complex identity than most normal objects, placing them between normal objects and spren or people, or at the same type as simpler types of lesser spren. @tmnsquirtle I agree with you on that - it does leak out and become part of the ecosystem again, but I think there is a key difference between stormlight leaking and an Awakened object and a metalmind. Spren find pools of investiture and transform them into more spren, much like any living organism absorbs neutrients and reproduces, though in this case more like an ice sculpture finding ice and carving a new copy. Awakening is similar, as it places investiture into a structure and then shapes it, while stormlight is just a pool of power unshaped. @Invocation If you can find it I'd like to see it :-) I think that a metalmind's identity - as in, the identity of the material that became the storage container, not the identity that links it to the Feruchemist - is independent of the identity of its contents, or rather, distinct. I think it would develop as a separate thing, just with that identity as a link to the Feruchemist, rather than its own identity.

@Calderis I don't have a copy of Oathbringer open at the moment, so I can't quote the passage, but do you remember the scene where Yelig-nar was mentioned as giving access to the surges? I think - and this needs to be checked, and I also agree it isn't definitive either way, as it is based on what the characters think - that it is described as giving access to the surges, not surgebinding. Do fabrials use surges or surgebinding? I don't want to mention other Cosmere stories at the moment - this is in the Stormlight section - but to make reference to a story that hasn't been finished yet: Now, whether or not the above example is using the surge of gravity, or affecting the fundamental force without that filter, the quote above notes, gravity isn't Honours, just how it is accessed. I see where you are coming from, that surgebinding gives us the familar form of using gravity, but how do you differentiate the surge of gravity from surgebinding? Also, the voidbinding picture doesn't use the symbols for the surges - it has rotational symmetry. Those are not "surges", they are "voids", and I suspect they do match the surges, but are not them. I think, for example, that it is more accurate to say it is the void of illumination that is used to see the future, or perhaps to communicate through mirrors. Surgebinding is how you access the surges, through bonds, as the quote notes, it is through the lens of Honour and Cultivation. The bond is of Honour, so clearly it forms a bond based on Honour with the spren and the knight. I doubt an Unmade can use that same channel to grant the surges, but I think it is implied, both by the quote and by the fact that the Unmame grant voidbinding - or can grant it - that it can grant surges through one of the voids.

@Calderis I wouldn't be surprised if you are right, but I think that it is more likely that surgebinding is mainly Honour, and the surges accessed then depending on how much like Honour or how much like Cultivation a spren is, and so the substrate that is the bond makes Truthwatcher spren have more Honour in them than might otherwise be implied. I think it is important to formalise this particular part of what you have said - that there is a difference between the surges, and surgebinding. Are the surges an actual property of the Cosmere - that is, a physical reality, a law that applies to the physical, cognitive, and spiritual - or a perception of physical reality, something which is grounded in the Cosmere through Roshar, and applies to other worlds only in the context of a cognitive construct accessed offworld via the spiritual, a way of accessing physical laws to achieve particular results. As Brandon implies here, it is the former, but I suspect it is more of a mixture of the two, as the cognitive can impact the spiritual and physical in the Cosmere, and so is the former because of the latter. Either way, there is something very important in that quote. The pertinent extract bolded, and key points within that underlined: Gravity, as a fundamental law, is a surge, or became a surge - that is, something which can be accessed magically as a fundamental force - because it is perceived to be one. Surgebinding allows access to the surges, and the Fused have access to the surges, but surgebinding is of both Honour and Cultivation. The surge of gravitation isn't Honour, but Windrunners accessing the surge of gravitation do so through Surgebinding, which is of Honour. And of Cultivation. Now, lets focus on this part - if you described Surgebinding, but not the Surges, how would you describe it, and based just on that description, which shard do you think it applies to, or which shards does it connect to, and which more strongly? I think a complete and accurate summary of Surgebinding is: forming a bond to a spren (initiated by the spren), making progressive oaths, keeping those oaths, and; through making and keeping those oaths cultivating the bond. Of those four points, all four tie to Honour, and the second and fourth tie to both Honour and Cultivation. Honour made the Honourblades, which access the surges, but do they count as surgebinding? Just because they access paired surges, which I think there is a quote how the pairing is natural, doesn't make them surgebinding, any more or less than the Fused accessing individual surges makes the Fused surgebinding. I think that Surgebinding - and not just Surgebinding, but also the bond - is a substrate the knights and their spren have access to, and the type of spren, based on their composition and personal belief, alter that substrate, but that substrate is still naturally primarily Honour. Maybe Truthwatcher spren are naturally entirely Cultivation, but once they start to form a bond they combine with parts of Honour spiritually, forming the bond and cultivating it like any other surgebinding spren. Now, I have a theory about how the Fused access to the surges - in short, it is a single type of Voidbinding, each fused only able to use it in a limited way, the same type - though in this case, expanded, that Amaram had when bonding to Yelig-nar, just as I think that the Midnight Essences - or rather, forming them - is another type of voidbinding, and so forth. And I agree that there is a difference between surges and surgebinding, and, simply mentioning Ashyn, I think we will be seeing more unique access to surges from other stories. But I believe surgebinding to be mainly Honour, while still being of Cultivation as well, but to a lesser extent. [Edit] Also, this link about how the original knights radiant were more Honour,

@Eris I think that they do, but with a caveat - are we referring to how the spren look in Shadesmar, the physical realm, or both, and are we also talking about the lesser spren - like windspren - which resemble surgebinding spren - like Honourspren - or the surgebinding spren, or both? In all cases I think there is a general similarity between spren which share a surge - the Truthwatcher spren and Cultivationspren resemble plants, which ties to the surge of Progression, but Cultivation spren lean towards plant-like crystal growth - Abrahsion, so smooth crystals - while Truthwatcher spren look like growing light, which leans towards the surge of Illumination, which they share with Cryptics, which have a shape that could resemble a ripple, being fractal - and, of course, Cryptics are next to Inkspren, associated with the idea of logic, so a mathematical base for their shape would also be implied. This also ties to the essence they are associated with, as Cultivationspren are crystal, Truthwatcher spren are plant, and Cryptics are blood, or rather, non-oil fluids, and they flow over surfaces when travelling, and their shape could be considered a ripple. And, of course, windspren and Honourspren appear like ribbons of wind, or rather, can appear as ribbons of wind. In general, I think that the physical manifestation the surgebinging spren (and the lesser spren relate to them) take resembles their essence, along with a relation to their surge, and so yes, spren of neighbouring types look similar, though leaning in different ways, kind of like how plants and crystals are similar in that they grow (Progression), and metals and stone are similar in how they are firm (Cohesion), and oils and non-oils are similar in that they flow (Transformation) :-) I posed a topic a while back covering some of this, see here, though be aware it is a long post, and the area of interest is in the spoilered section, mainly covered in the bolded sections below each of the surges and their descriptions.

@Ripheus23 It just occurred to me now to look up your user name and see the myths associated with it. I think I see where you are coming from. I personally am uncomfortable because stories that mention beings from scripture like this feel like they are touching at something sacred, something which is dangerous to do, especially claiming certain properties or relationships of beings which might not have them, and which take notice. You have put a lot of thought into what you are writing, and I see the philosophical ideas you are using, and the references you are making - you've definitely put a lot of work into this. For restraining the anomalies, you could have it that something is affecting the archetypal nature of how they function, confining their operations to act in a finite way, potentially increasing, but linearly or logarithmically. They might naturally be attempting to grow asymptotically - as a supertask, the asymptote is on the time axis - or might want to, but something is affecting the nature of how they grow, and so one issue then is trying to stop them from modifying their nature to match the ideal of a supertask. It also could be that they are already a supertask, and speeding up, and that when they reach infinity is known, so the quest is to apply a restriction to them.

@Eris and @Ark1002 Thanks! :-D Eris, you may of course say you love me, and I reciprocate platonically :-P Also, sorry about the confusing initial part - I have a drive to order things and make them logical, to establish the groundwork of what I hope to say, but I also tend to write in a stream of consciousness, thinking of and addressing possible alternative examples or arguments preemptively. Sorry if that broke the flow - either way, thank you for reading :-) Ark1002, good to know this is something others have been wondering about too and I wasn't just imagining things :-) Truthfully I just wanted to get this out there so I could focus on other things :-P Glad you like it!

I don't think so, but I'll give it a look :-)

@Bigmikey357 Probably a Preservationblade - but! Shardblades sever bonds, while Honour is keeping them. Awakened swords - and so if they exist, Endowmentblades - drain colour, so possibly drain invesititure, which is the opposite of endowing, just as Nightblood drains from its user (though destroys what it hits, unless that is a more extreme type of drain). So it might be that Ruinblades actually preserve what they hit.

As theories go, this is one I am fairly sure about, but don't have much proof. I think that - for uncorrupted spren - Truthwatcher spren are an equal mixture of Honour and Cultivation, and that Glys has an addition of Odium's investiture equal to the other two, making Glys a unique spren - or currently unique - that represents a link to all the shards currently in the Rosharan system, and these links are interfering with each other, but can eventually be resolved to allow access to the investiture of all the shards in the system. A brief bit of background to this. One thing that I had been bothered by was that Truthwatchers seem more Cultivation than Honour, being associated with plants, healing, etc. And I had wondered if perhaps they were Cultivation spren, rather than a mixture. This didn't feel right, as Surgebinding, while involving cultivating the bond, is clearly more focused on the oaths, and all the spren for surgebinding are mixtures of both Honour and Cultivation. Did that mean that Bondsmiths also are a mixture of Cultivation? I think so, especially if the Nightwatcher also is a Bondsmith's spren. But how to reconcile this with the seemingly more Cultivation orientation of Truthwatchers, Edgedancers, and Lightweavers? I think the main way this can be reconciled - and this also seems to be the general consensus, or at least parts of it are partially agreed - is that the five orders at the top - corresponding to male heralds - are more aligned with Honour, and the five orders at the bottom - corresponding to female heralds - are more aligned with Cultivation. Or rather, they are all a mixture of Honour and Cultivation, but the bottom orders have more Cultivation added, while the top have less Cultivation. All order are - or at least I hope - a mixture of the two, but Surgebinding is still Honours system, unless it is equally Honour's and Cultivation's. Either way, I suspect that Stonewards and Windrunners have a corresponding ratio of Honour's investiture, and Cultivations, just like Skybreakers and Willshapers, which is more Cultivation than Windrunners and Stonewards, but still strongly Honour. Likewise for Elsecallers and Dustbringers, they have an equal mixture to one another, which contains more Cultivation than Skybreakers and Willshapers. And so on. However, this does will raise two questions - where do Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers fit in, and how do their ratios correspond to the other orders? There are two possibilities, and those also fit in the two possibilities of how much Honour the bottom orders have, and how much Cultivation the top orders have. The options: Option 1: Surgebinding is equally Honour and Cultivation, and; Bondsmiths have more Cultivation than Windrunners and Truthwatchers have more Honour than Edgedancers; Option 2: Surgebinding is equally Honour and Cultivation, and; Bondsmiths have more Honour than Windrunners and Truthwatchers have more Cultivation than Edgedancers; Option 3: Surgebinding is mainly Honour with some Cultivation, and; Bondsmiths have more Cultivation than Windrunners and Truthwatchers have more Honour than Edgedancers; Option 4: Surgebinding is mainly Honour with some Cultivation, and; Bondsmiths have more Honour than Windrunners and Truthwatchers have more Cultivation than Edgedancers; (A 5th Option - Bondsmiths actually are unique and don't fit the paradigm - we will ignore this, or factor it into the rest of the theory, which can also include Truthwatchers being unique.) This theory assumes either Option 3 and 4, but also can work with the first. Lets discus this in detail first. Option 1 assumes that the extreme end orders - those that are primarily of one shard - are Windrunners, Stonewards, Edgedancers, and Lightweavers. They are still a mixture, but Windrunners and Stonwards are mainly Honour, with a little Cultivation. Edgedancers and Lightweavers are mainly Cultivation, but with a little Honour. Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers, then, are mainly Honour and Cultivation, respectively, but with a noticeable amounts of the other mixed in. Which would match the idea of Honourspren being named for Honour, and Cultivationspren for Cultivation. A side note to this - if Windrunners and Stonewards are equally of Honour and contain the same amount of Cultivation, what makes them different? It could be that the nature of how the powers mix is important - and this is key further in the theory - which also matches many real world items, where how things are added together is just as important as the amount, or it could be that one has slightly more of Honour than the other, though this would imply adding a little bit of investiture would change them into a new spren, which I doubt. In this model, it also could be that Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers are actually equally of Honour and Cultivation, only configured to better match the shard they correspond with - but this does have issues. Still, the Nightwatcher, as a Bondsmithspren, is more of Cultivation than of Honour, or at least appears to be. So perhaps how close the spren is to Honour isn't as important, or the Nightwatcher needs to be reconfigured if it wished to bond a Bondsmith. Option 2 assumes that the extreme end orders are Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers. Bondsmiths mainly Honour, Truthwatchers mainly Cultivation. But it doesn't explain the Nightwatcher. Option 3 assumes that there is only one extreme end of alignment to a shard, and that the bottom is actually still more Honour than the top is of Cultivation. It just assumes that the bottom most is actually the Edgedancer and Lightweaver orders. Option 4, like option 3, assumes that, while the top order is mainly connected to one shard, the bottom is not, and has more Honour than the top order has Cultivation. This is the theory which says that Truthwatchers are equally of Honour and Cultivation. There are still possible problems, though, such as why an Order which looks so clearly to be of Cultivation would in fact be just as much of Honour. The one possibility is that Honour provides a base on which the spren build - or rather, both Honour and Cultivation together form that base, with Honour forming bonds and keeping oaths, and Cultivation progressing those oaths, with the spren then adding its flavour of Honour or Cultivation to the mixture, but a mixture which - based on option 4 - is mainly that of Honour. So, Lightweavers mainly cultivate themselves, with little "honour", except in accepting truths. Edgedancers cultivate others, mainly the outcasts. Elsecallers are more about information, which cultivates oneself, but with the potential to help others, and Dustbringers serving others - so adding in more Honour. Willshapers are builders and explorers, so still some Cultivation from the explorers, mainly on doing what one wants, but at the same time Cultivating for others, which is a form of honour, and so favouring building from scratch rather than growing from what is present, and Skybreakers cultivate society but to keep to the letter of a code. Stonewards stand firm, keeping to the form of honour that is to keep ones word, not to buckle, and so have little cultivation, while Windrunners protect, selfless but keeping to the idea of honour being a shield for society. Bondsmiths unite, and Truthwatchers heal. The main point of this is to say that all the orders progress in their oaths in a manner that mirrors both Honour and Cultivation, while also maintaining to a form of Honour or Cultivation which matches an ideal that is more one than the other while still being a part of both. So, that brings us to Glys. I think that his investiture is a perfect mixture, but one that is interfering with itself. For Surgebinding spren, the spren are a mixture of Honour and Cultivation, but which are designed to work together. For Glys, extra investiture has been added, and must be reconciled to the whole. He is connected to all three shards, and I think these connections are interfering with one another, and will continue to do so until Renarin can achieve a balance with him. Honour and Cultivation work together to form Surgebinding, whether on purpose or by accident, whether using something already present and letting it unfold naturally, or using some external force. Glys needs to gain a balance as well, and that will allow access to the full abilities of a Truthwatcher spren, and a voidbinding spren. And possibly even a third system. This makes Glys special, and as my theory on the Knights Radiant having to learn to voidbind says, I think Renarin will gain access to Voidbinding for either one or all levels of Voidbinding - definitely for at least one level, and whether or not the other knights gain voidbinding through corrupted spren or a duel bond, he might gain access to all the levels of voidbinding So, to summarise, Glys - and thus Renarin - are important to the system and the Cosmere because they are an equal mix of the three shards present, and thus might allow Renarin a unique access to the magic of each shard, equal to that of all future knights - a path they all must take or can choose to take or forced to take - or even more so than future knights.

@Bigmikey357 Technically, if there are Endowmentblades, they probably perform similarly to Azure's blade, just as shardblades mirror Honourblades.

Voice is simply how you write, the style you have. Read a book by one author, read another by a second, and you can see the different styles. When you know your voice you can better become aware of your strengths and weaknesses, and so potentially be more aware of how you tell a story, as it were. Voice is just your method of writing. Brandon has said in the writing lectures that often you don't so much have to seek out your voice, but rather find ways to adjust it.

Using the more invested type of spren as an example - which is a rather broad term, as on Roshar a stick is just as much a spren as a santhid, which is just as much a spren as Syl, who is just as much a spren as the Stormfather, who is just as much a spren as Cultivation, who is just as much a spren as a little flame in Shadesmar - I think that Awakened objects, such as lifeless and Nightblood, count as artificial spren, of the type just below a santhid, or between a santhid and Syl, or in extreme cases, the Stormfather. Now, we already know that Nightblood is a robot spren, but what I mean is, anything Awakened is an artificial cognitive construct, rather than the more natural spren that form from general ideas coalescing, and the more breaths an Awakened object has the higher up the chain it moves. A rope invested with a few breaths might manifest in the Cognitive realm - either on Nalthis or where ever else it could be produced - would begin to appear less like a "glass bead" (or whatever the local equivalent is) and more as an organism in the Cognitive realm, either aware of the Cognitive realm like a spren / spren not fully in the physical realm, or even the flame that corresponds to life in the physical. Lifeless, with only a single needed breath, might also appear as a flame. The more breaths involved in something, or the more organic it was, the more the Cognitive component would transform, and so anything Awakened would begin to appear as a native creature of the Cognitive realm, or at least more alive. The result, when seen in the Cognitive realm, would be rather striking, the bead of the object either blazing to life, or transforming into a creature able to sense the Cognitive realm, or completely blind, and able to communicate even more than stick - a more complex idea simply than stating what it is, or remembering what it used to be (which seems to be useful in soulcasting), but able to express the command it was given. This now brings up Metalminds. I think that the key part to remember is that they have the term minds in them. Like Awakening, I think metalminds have a cognitive component also, that the investiture might not be just stored in the Spiritual realm, with a link to it, but rather at least in part in the Cognitive realm, and so likewise an invested metalmind would begin to appear as a creature, and possibly able to communicate likewise, so a coppermind might be able to tell you its contents without loosing them ... or maybe it would lose them ... and maybe it wouldn't appear initially, but would be more likely to form into a type of spren over a period. Either way, what do you think? Do you think Awakening and Metalminds form artificial spren?

:-P For Aon books, that might be because of how the magic is intended to be accessed - either a non-Elantrian wrote them, or an Elantrian wrote them without the intent of making the Aon work. Other systems might have different issues though! Forgery could become interesting if later formalised examples are literally stamped into a book, only without the setting mark, but one day someone accidentally used a seal with the setting mark in place, and the seal matched the books history a little too well, and the book was accidentally turned into fire ... thanks Shallan! @tmnsquirtle Agreed - it does seem to be more restrictive than other types. I think that making it region dependent, require a very specific syntax, like literally saying a computer program, and so needing to know the handle of everything involved might distinguish it, but its also possible Brandon could also heavily restrict the number of possible things it could do, or need to be read directly from a book to make it work. It doesn't need to be majorly distinguished - just a little.

I'm a little uncomfortable with your use of Biblical terms. To address your point, though, I suggest having a look at supertasks - and any infinity paradox :-P Supertasks are a cheat in performing an infinite number of steps in a finite amount of time. Also, all infinities of a given type are equal to each other - the number of integers is equal to the number of even numbers, the number of multiples of ten, the number of odd numbers, the number of multiples of Grahams number, and so forth.

This is the lyrics to the 1980s comedy series staring Rowahn at'Kinsin as successive generations of inept Darkfriend channelers, trying to subvert the White Tower, or at least become Amyrlin. Tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56kfYoyTTqU The lyrics to the final season: "Seven Ajahs all to serve the Light, And one serving Shadow in secret like some cleaners. They use their cunning and their might, Though eventually to be bossed 'round by their seniors. Black Ajah, Black Ajah - thirteen Chosen made the chop. Black Ajah, Black Ajah - they're sure that number won't drop. Time turns like 'Wheel along a lane, When the Light used them to mop the floor. They'll use the same strategies again, 'cause that worked out oh so well before. Black Ajah, Black Ajah - this time it will go as planned! Black Ajah, Black Ajah - wait, is this boy named Rand?"

To add to that, accepting is also a part of leadership, that you do the best you can to protect and to lead - which are in many ways the same thing - but in the end you have to accept that some will be lost, or sacrifices have to be made - not sacrifices of killing those you protect, but sacrifices in who it is possible to protect. I think the fifth ideal then would also be "I will lead others in order to protect them / help them in protecting themselves" or a similar idea, that leading them will also protect them. Ultimately a Windrunner shouldn't sacrifice people, but there is a difference between sacrificing and triage.

First of, I would like to apologise if I get any of the real world parts of this wrong. I don't speak Chinese or any other Eastern language, let alone know how to read them, and most of my information on these topics is second hand or from the internet. I do know a Chinese girl - she lived with us for a time while working on our country - and a Korean girl - I mentored her - but it has been a long time since I last spoke to them, and in depth discussions on the topic of their languages and writing systems didn't come up in conversation. Either way, I hope this topic helps provide an interesting discussion. Also, I would like to apologise if this is a topic others have covered before, and I hope this is an interesting and new idea, or at least putting down an idea concretely which may have been thought of before but not yet discussed. This topic is on the idea that on Sel a new language will be constructed which could be used anywhere on the planet. This language would be a constructed one, an artificial one, but designed in such a way that it either can be used with the existing systems, or would superseed them, becoming a new common language which could be used anywhere on the planet. The idea of an artificially created language is an old one. A relatively recent example of an artificial one is Esperanto, a spoken language which was stated to have been formed to serve as a common language which could unite different peoples and to be easy to learn, and which uses the Latin alphabet - or a version of the Latin alphabet - for writing. Tolkien made several languages for his Legendarium in order to form a mythology, or rather a mythology to form languages, as languages shape and are shaped by the culture they come from. He used a variant of traditional Norse runes for some (which are apparently based on the shapes of trees), but also invented a script for others. And of course there are several conlangs made for a variety of purposes, and their own glyphs. The main example of a language I want to talk about though, as is stated by the name of this post, is that of Hangul and Hanzi. I will link a video by Brandon below - the first part is the most important to the topic, but the rest is important about exclusionary thinking: https://youtu.be/KTE5jUf0Jgg Hangul is a constructed written language in order to support an existing spoken one - a method of giving power to the common folk who did not have the time or resources to become scholars. And a boon to scholars who would not have to learn every possible symbol of Hanzi. It was a supplement to an existing written language, helping make Hanzi when used in Korea better linked to the Korean grammar and syntax, adding those symbols around the Hanzi characters, and as a language by itself it could easily be learnt and used, and is widely considered the best writing system on the planet. In many ways, as Brandon said, Aons are based on the relationship between Hangul and Hanzi, with the idea of a Hanzi character surrounded by Hangul letters to link it to the use of symbols around the core Aons. But I think that it is a little deeper than that. All the systems shown so far shown are like Hanzi, the Chinese script, with unique symbols for unique ideas, and thus a vast plethora of glyphs. Aons are in a sense a cheat, being based on a root simple symbol, but still, when seeing the number of Aons, it is clearly more like Hanzi than Hangul. One key point to remember throughout this though, is not just that Hangul is its own complete writing system, but that in Korea, Hangul and Hanzi can also be used together, with Hangul symbols surrounding Hanzi glyphs. This is the idea Brandon had with Aons - that some letters can be used together. I think the core idea behind this particular application of Hangul is also important - that different languages or letters can be used together, and that might imply that something similar can happen on Sel ... even putting aside the idea of Sel's systems as programming languages and the potential of cross-language compiling :-P Either way, as Esperanto, Tolkien's fictional languages, conlangs like Klingon, and, of course, Hangul show, just because a tongue or writing system was made rather than arising naturally, something planned rather than unplanned, doesn't mean it isn't or can't become a spoken or formal language for writing, the same as others. Languages grow and absorb from one another all the time. And I think that is actually hinted at in the Elantris. There are three great domains on Sel, with at least two of those nations growing very large and absorbing other cultures around them into themselves. I think they are also absorbing the systems from those nations into their own as well. An example is the Rose Empire, with the three known systems from it being based on stamps. It is possible that the stamps are actually because the geography of the land is closely linked, and so even if the Rose Empire was not there the different nations would have stamp based systems. But it is more likely that the nations folded into the Rose Empire have been altered by the cultural perception, or the general culture of the area. With Fjordell, there is an implication that it is more recent in its expansions, that cultures only recently absorbed - though what counts as recent is a bit hard to measure - are still distinct enough to maintain their own culture, and thus systems. It is implied - or at least it seems to be implied - that cultural expansion and assimilation is the goal of several empires, and this might be tied to Sel's growing self awareness, and possibly each regions pushing its empire to absorb other lands into itself. If so, then the Moon Sceptre could play a role for a new language - or, as will be discussed in the second last paragraph, already be part of that goal for one or more empires - in order to bind a language or system to multiple other languages or systems (and brief aside, it is interesting that Skaze are working with or controlling Fjordell, while Seons are working with and serving mainly in Elantris, but are present in neighbouring regions. Could it be that each empire - or at least some other nations - have Skaze working to enhance them, or working for a common goal the empires don't know about? Or maybe are all in Fjordell, and have set their goals - or have no choice but to set their goals - on the achievement of hegemony with Fjordell as the centre). A singular major issue remains though, and it is that of geography and its ties to the symbols. Aons and the symbols used for Forgery, or at least the final symbol added to the seal, are based on the geography of the home nation of the system. And due to the nature of the Dor it is stated that geography, magic, and language are linked, with changes in one affecting the others. But that is not the same as a hierarchy - the statement isn't that all the magic is based on the language, and the language based on the geography. The statement is that all three are linked. It could be that if a region gains a language, or one emerges, that the magic would eventually become a part of it. Or maybe it only could become a part of it if the geography matched some part. Or maybe the geography would be changed to match the language if the cognitive impact was strong enough. Or maybe there actually is a hierarchy, and geography trumps language which trumps system. Either way, I except that a constructed and artificial language, either spoken or written, would have some impact on the magic. Or potentially be an addition. An aside, I personally prefer the idea of multiple empires and civilisations of a given species in fiction, rather than, in Star Trek for example, all Klingons being in an empire, all humans - and others - being members of the Federation, etc. One of the best ideas in the Original Series was that the Romulans were actually offshoots of the Vulcans, and so could be seen to be - though biologically altered - the same species as Vulcans and thus another Vulcan civilisation distinct from the others. I like the idea of a unified race, true, but I also like the idea that alien peoples can be diverse, having unique cultures, and so also hope that, in the future stories, Sel isn't going to become homogenised, or at least not completely. This does slightly undermine the idea of multiple systems being combined into one, the people united by a common language, or if not a common language than a common writing system, but it could just be that they start to see themselves as people from Sel first and their nations second, and so the unified language could serve as a common second language, a system which all can use in addition to their own, and which might be able to work far from their nations, or support the other systems when used away from their nations. Each of Sel's systems so far shown - except for those in the Rose Empire - have been diverse in both method of access and application. Aons can be drawn in the air or carved into plates, ChayShan is - at least shown to be - a martial art, Dakhor is actually part of the bones of the monks, etc. While a new language, a new writing system, could form into a new system, it most likely would interact with the existing ones, being another form for them to interact with. It might be that no new languages will form, and no new systems, but I think that is unlikely. Each region seems to have its own systems, or at least several nations seem to have their own blocked magic. A universal system might actually be something that some groups are trying to produce, their language - like English, as Terry Pratchett noted with its habit of following other languages into dark alleys, beating them up, and looting their pockets for loose punctuation - trying to assimilate the others as what might be happening with the Rose Empire. But whether this is the case or not, or if they are whether any group succeeds, I think a constructed language or writing system applicable across multiple tongues could potentially unite the whole of Sel, or at least become its own system, or a system which ties others together. So, what do you guys think? Do you think that a unified language on Sel would affect the other systems, or could integrate into them? (Also, one last apology - I finished writing this after a long stretch and am somewhat tied, and haven't fully proofread it or checked to make sure it flows well - I will edit and fix it if any issues are brought to my attention, but at the moment I'm going to go and get ready for supper. Cheers and I hope everyone is well!)

That could work :-) If that were the case it could probably be based off of different cliffs, or the way certain waves form off the coast - it is a good potential solution or other method of grounding the sounds. Good idea!

@StrikerEZ A girl from Ashyn, her name was Shalash; She was quiet beautiful, and had some Sass; Her world was crumbling, so with a dash, They fled to Roshar in quiet a flash; Now she wanders around, and treats art like trash; If she sees her statue, its face she will crash; Now she'll soon be a radiant, and kicked some Ash, especially that of her dad's killer, a guy called Moash.

Ahhh, but not all of them are symmetrical in the same way - Aon Aha, Ashe, Ata, Ati, Daa, etc. are bilaterally symmetrical, some horizontally, other vertically, while others are rotationally symmetric. A bilaterally symmetrical one could have a space at the top/one side, or apply to the Aon right above it/to one side, which triggers first, followed by the Aon below/on the other side, or use a conditional statement to determine it it triggers the top Aon or the bottom/Aon on one side or the other. Basically, an Aon alone the line of symmetry could be triggered in a sequence or conditionally triggered. Even rotationally symmetric Aons could work if it starts at the top and then moves clockwise or counter clockwise. I agree with Forgery having a sequence, and my point is that Aons probably do as well, though it isn't impossible that there are systems which can't encode for it. I think that Aons can though.

What type of spren will Ash bond?

I think you mean stick :-P Why did the chicken cross the road? Did you know Shallan has tried to turn several things into fire, and use them for cooking? I think we all need to Cultivate a better sense of humour - some of these jokes are Odious